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Liberals ready to abandon US right to abortion - Printable Version

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- rteynor - 07-06-2005 01:36 PM

Of course the article is from the UK,

<a href='http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1520138,00.html' target='_blank'>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1520138,00.html</a>

Quote:Liberals ready to abandon US right to abortion

Gaby Wood in New York
Sunday July 3, 2005
The Observer

Last autumn, in the midst of a presidential election, America's Democrats were fighting furiously to protect what they described as a constitutional right - to have an abortion.
But in an extraordinary turn of events, some argue that it is the single issue standing in the way of their election prospects. They are daring to say what once was regarded as heresy - that it is time to let the argument go.

Abortion may still be the most divisive issue in the US, but in a move indicative of creeping conservatism, Democrats now seem happy to amend - even relinquish - their position on it.


- uhmump95 - 07-06-2005 02:08 PM

First of all it is ignorant to assume all Democrats are liberals. Second if there is an issue that taking Democrats out of the American mainstream, it is gay marriage. The fact that Kerry was for it was a big reason why I did not vote for him.

- JTiger - 07-06-2005 02:32 PM

uhmump95 Wrote:First of all it is ignorant to assume all Democrats are liberals. Second if there is an issue that taking Democrats out of the American mainstream, it is gay marriage. The fact that Kerry was for it was a big reason why I did not vote for him.
I think Kerry was for civil unions, no marriage.

- Rebel - 07-06-2005 02:57 PM

I think both are wrong. What takes liberals out of the mainstream are their fiscal policies, IMO. When I vote, I ask myself, "who will protect my private property rights and who will allow me to keep more of what I earn?". Generally, it's the Libertarians, but the Conservatives come in at #2.

- ccs178 - 07-06-2005 04:27 PM

uhmump95 Wrote:First of all it is ignorant to assume all Democrats are liberals. Second if there is an issue that taking Democrats out of the American mainstream, it is gay marriage. The fact that Kerry was for it was a big reason why I did not vote for him.
Who did you vote for, if I may so inquire?

- georgia_tech_swagger - 07-06-2005 05:24 PM

I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians. If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder. Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder. I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood cells... arguably less.

- Rebel - 07-06-2005 06:01 PM

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians. If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder. Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder. I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood cells... arguably less.
So your litmus test as to what is actually "living" is something that has a sense of awareness? Comatose people aren't living? I'm not completely pro-life, but some of those whacko pro-choice people believe in abortion up until the day before the child is scheduled to be born.

- georgia_tech_swagger - 07-06-2005 08:39 PM

RebelKev Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians.&nbsp; &nbsp; If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder.&nbsp; Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder.&nbsp; I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood&nbsp; cells... arguably less.
So your litmus test as to what is actually "living" is something that has a sense of awareness? Comatose people aren't living? I'm not completely pro-life, but some of those whacko pro-choice people believe in abortion up until the day before the child is scheduled to be born.
Yes. "I think therefore I am."

- ccs178 - 07-06-2005 09:19 PM

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians.    If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder. &nbsp; Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder. &nbsp; I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood  cells... arguably less.
So your litmus test as to what is actually "living" is something that has a sense of awareness? Comatose people aren't living? I'm not completely pro-life, but some of those whacko pro-choice people believe in abortion up until the day before the child is scheduled to be born.
Yes. "I think therefore I am."
Any of you ever read or see the movie "Johnny Got His Gun?"

- JTiger - 07-07-2005 06:46 AM

On the abortion issue, there is a group called "Democrats for life" at democratsforlife.org who are working with legislators to work at reducing the number of abortions by 95% in 10 years. There was a radio show on NPR's "talk of the nation" about this debate here's the link

<a href='http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4731736' target='_blank'>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...storyId=4731736</a>

very interesting discussion for everybody.

- The Knight Time - 07-07-2005 11:07 AM

1 million babies die every year from abortion.

Besides the holocaust, I challenge you to find me a time when children were killed at a more sickening rate.

America "vowed" to never stand by during another Holocaust and let it happen. No, instead the U.S. made their own.

- flyingswoosh - 07-07-2005 11:21 AM

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians.    If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder. &nbsp; Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder. &nbsp; I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood  cells... arguably less.
So your litmus test as to what is actually "living" is something that has a sense of awareness? Comatose people aren't living? I'm not completely pro-life, but some of those whacko pro-choice people believe in abortion up until the day before the child is scheduled to be born.
Yes. "I think therefore I am."
when do you count someone as dead?

- T-Monay820 - 07-07-2005 11:37 AM

flyingswoosh Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I am pro-choice... just like most libertarians.    If it isn't a living thing yet (e.g- has no sense of awareness) -- it's not murder.   Some people think as soon as there is conception... if you abort it is murder.   I hope they get tried for murder every time they pop a zit, because it has just as much intelligence as that heap of white blood  cells... arguably less.
So your litmus test as to what is actually "living" is something that has a sense of awareness? Comatose people aren't living? I'm not completely pro-life, but some of those whacko pro-choice people believe in abortion up until the day before the child is scheduled to be born.
Yes. "I think therefore I am."
when do you count someone as dead?
What about sleeping people? Or those who get knocked out? They aren't aware of thier surroundings, does that give me an OK to "terminate their life"?

- HuskieDan - 07-07-2005 12:32 PM

The Knight Time Wrote:1 million babies die every year from abortion.

Besides the holocaust, I challenge you to find me a time when children were killed at a more sickening rate.

America "vowed" to never stand by during another Holocaust and let it happen. No, instead the U.S. made their own.
I know it'll be lengthy, but could you post the 1,000,000 social security numbers identifying these dead babies?

- Rebel - 07-07-2005 12:49 PM

HuskieDan Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:1 million babies die every year from abortion.

Besides the holocaust, I challenge you to find me a time when children were killed at a more sickening rate.&nbsp;

America "vowed" to never stand by during another Holocaust and let it happen. No, instead the U.S. made their own.
I know it'll be lengthy, but could you post the 1,000,000 social security numbers identifying these dead babies?
I didn't have a SSN until I was about 10. Guess I didn't exist. :rolleyes:

- JTiger - 07-07-2005 01:08 PM

RebelKev Wrote:
HuskieDan Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:1 million babies die every year from abortion.

Besides the holocaust, I challenge you to find me a time when children were killed at a more sickening rate.&nbsp;

America "vowed" to never stand by during another Holocaust and let it happen. No, instead the U.S. made their own.
I know it'll be lengthy, but could you post the 1,000,000 social security numbers identifying these dead babies?
I didn't have a SSN until I was about 10. Guess I didn't exist. :rolleyes:
I was 6 before I got my number. I guess I didn't either using HuskieDan logic. Seriously, that is the worst argument I have ever heard.

- The Knight Time - 07-07-2005 04:22 PM

Huskie is just reaching for ANYTHING to justify abortion, just how much proponents do.

I guess SSN's are the "be all end all" of life.

An average of about 1,000,000 babies are aborted every year. Abortion was legalized 33 years ago I believe.

You do the math.

If Nazi's do it, it's a travesty. If "progressive" Americans do it, it's their "constitutional right".

Makes a whole lotta sense.

- uhmump95 - 07-07-2005 05:25 PM

ccs178 Wrote:
uhmump95 Wrote:First of all it is ignorant to assume all Democrats are liberals.&nbsp; Second if there is an issue that taking Democrats out of the American mainstream, it is gay marriage.&nbsp; The fact that Kerry was for it was a big reason why I did not vote for him.
Who did you vote for, if I may so inquire?
No one

- uhmump95 - 07-07-2005 05:30 PM

RebelKev Wrote:What takes liberals out of the mainstream are their fiscal policies, IMO. When I vote, I ask myself, "who will protect my private property rights and who will allow me to keep more of what I earn?". Generally, it's the Libertarians, but the Conservatives come in at #2.
What fiscal policies do Democrat's support that take away your private property right?

- Rebel - 07-07-2005 05:37 PM

uhmump95 Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:What takes liberals out of the mainstream are their fiscal policies, IMO. When I vote, I ask myself, "who will protect my private property rights and who will allow me to keep more of what I earn?". Generally, it's the Libertarians, but the Conservatives come in at #2.
What fiscal policies do Democrat's support that take away your private property right?
I would venture to guess that the 5 liberals on the Supreme Court that voted to end private property rights in America, also voted for Kerry.