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"Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Ole Blue - 02-15-2012 10:32 PM
The proposed "Don't Say Gay" bill which will prevent teachers from discussing homosexuality in grades K-8 has passed the Tennessee House of Representatives Subcommittee. Does this not impede the First Amendment freedom of speech? This is bound to be a volatile topic in the state of Tennessee, and, unfortunately, looks to have not too bumpy a road to passing with our Tea Party governor and Republican-heavy legislature. I am utterly disappointed by this. I hope the courts strike this down if it passes.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Paul M - 02-15-2012 10:37 PM
Fock off with your gay agenda. Leave kids alone.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Ole Blue - 02-15-2012 10:46 PM
(02-15-2012 10:37 PM)Paul M Wrote: Fock off with your gay agenda. Leave kids alone.
Oh, how I do hope you're being sarcastic. Or just trolling... "Gay agenda"? Seriously?
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Paul M - 02-15-2012 10:55 PM
I know it's politically incorrect to use accurate language. What would you prefer I call it?
Now I'm trolling. I'm not going to pander to you.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Ole Blue - 02-15-2012 11:01 PM
(02-15-2012 10:55 PM)Paul M Wrote: I know it's politically incorrect to use accurate language. What would you prefer I call it?
Now I'm trolling. I'm not going to pander to you.
So you were serious? "It"? Wow... Yeah, you are trolling. I don't feel the need to argue with you, since it's pointless.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - RaiderATO - 02-15-2012 11:05 PM
It's a touchy subject that should be handled in the home, not by a school teacher. Teachers can continue to talk about not bullying, etc. because someone is different.
And no, it doesn't infringe on freedom of speech. Your employer can restrict what you are allowed to talk about, dress, etc.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Ole Blue - 02-15-2012 11:24 PM
(02-15-2012 11:05 PM)RaiderATO Wrote: It's a touchy subject that should be handled in the home, not by a school teacher. Teachers can continue to talk about not bullying, etc. because someone is different.
And no, it doesn't infringe on freedom of speech. Your employer can restrict what you are allowed to talk about, dress, etc.
Well, I'm sure there are differing opinions on its legality. I can see how people would want to talk about such a subject at home, but to me this kind of thing can be seen to be a direct attack on homosexuality. It's about sex education. No teacher can provide any information about any sexual orientation other than heterosexual... It's a proven fact that the more forbidden something becomes, the more a child is curious about it. Sure, it'll help to dispel potentially sticky situations that may arise when children question teachers on the issue, but it seems to me that even though it may have good intent... it really brings up the question of if you're going to outlaw teaching about orientations other than heterosexual, why not ban sex education altogether? The wording of the bill is:
Quote:(1) The general assembly recognizes the sensitivity of particular subjects
that are best explained and discussed in the home. Human sexuality is a
complex subject with societal, scientific, psychological, and historical
implications; those implications are best understood by children with sufficient
maturity to grasp their complexity.
(2) Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, no public elementary or
middle school shall provide any instruction or material that discusses sexual
orientation other than heterosexuality.
Following that, my thought is: "Best explained and discussed in the home" - why exclude certain groups, instead of all of them? You said it's a touchy subject and should be handled at the home level - shouldn't this be the same about all sexual information and orientations? There's a lot to discuss, and homosexuality isn't the only tricky thing that people have to talk about. Teen pregnancy; safe sex; abortion; etc. All these things. Are none of those things not bad enough to keep out of the classroom but homosexuality is? That just seems wrong to me, in my opinion. (Also, it kind of felt like I was rambling, just a little bit.)
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Max Power - 02-15-2012 11:25 PM
Yes it violates their freedom of speech with no compelling reason, and is therefore unconstitutional.
I'd be fine with it if the teachers were banned from discussing heterosexuality too, but we all know no one has a problem with the heterosexual agenda.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Native Georgian - 02-15-2012 11:37 PM
(02-15-2012 11:25 PM)Max Power Wrote: we all know no one has a problem with the heterosexual agenda.You've lived an amazingly sheltered life so far.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - smn1256 - 02-15-2012 11:39 PM
Free speech? When was the last time a pro Satan or Nazi agenda was forced on kindergartners? Call me when you find the gay gene.
Edit: free speech would also allow for gay bashing. You up for that?
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - RaiderATO - 02-15-2012 11:46 PM
(02-15-2012 11:24 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: There's a lot to discuss, and homosexuality isn't the only tricky thing that people have to talk about. Teen pregnancy; safe sex; abortion; etc. All these things. Are none of those things not bad enough to keep out of the classroom but homosexuality is? That just seems wrong to me, in my opinion. (Also, it kind of felt like I was rambling, just a little bit.)
Not debating the merits of this law (other than it NOT being a limit on free speech, since it is the teachers being limited, not the students) but homosexual (and heterosexual) activities can be covered without mentioning either specifically. Anal sex is anal sex whether is is MM or MF, oral sex is oral sex whether it is MF, MM or FF same with toy play, STD prevention, etc.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Max Power - 02-15-2012 11:49 PM
I think even Scalia would balk at the gays = Nazis analogy.
If the state wants to abridge speech it needs a compelling reason to do so. There is no compelling reason to "not talk about homosexuality." There would arguably be compelling reasons to support the other bans you're talking about.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - smn1256 - 02-15-2012 11:52 PM
(02-15-2012 11:49 PM)Max Power Wrote: I think even Scalia would balk at the gays = Nazis analogy.
If the state wants to abridge speech it needs a compelling reason to do so. There is no compelling reason to "not talk about homosexuality." There would arguably be compelling reasons to support the other bans you're talking about.
What about parental dissent? We're not talking geography or math here, we're talking opinion, not fact. And what about that long lost concept of morals?
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Paul M - 02-15-2012 11:52 PM
(02-15-2012 11:24 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: It's a proven fact that the more forbidden something becomes, the more a child is curious about it.
Oh, so your thinking about the kids and trying to save them from experimenting with something that goes against their natural inclinations. Well that makes it just dandy then. Excuse me, I have to sneeze. Kabullshit. Bless me. Now, where were we. Oh that's right, Max telling us how EVERYTHING is unconstitutional.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Bull_In_Exile - 02-15-2012 11:59 PM
(02-15-2012 10:32 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: Does this not impede the First Amendment freedom of speech?
Do teachers in the classroom have a first amendment right to talk about anything they want? Do you feel that way on, oh I don't know, intelligent design?
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Max Power - 02-16-2012 12:09 AM
(02-15-2012 11:52 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(02-15-2012 11:49 PM)Max Power Wrote: I think even Scalia would balk at the gays = Nazis analogy.
If the state wants to abridge speech it needs a compelling reason to do so. There is no compelling reason to "not talk about homosexuality." There would arguably be compelling reasons to support the other bans you're talking about.
What about parental dissent? We're not talking geography or math here, we're talking opinion, not fact. And what about that long lost concept of morals?
Exactly. We're talking about opinion. We're talking about the government banning discussion of a perfectly harmless, law abiding lifestyle because of the opinion of a bunch of homophobes. The only conceivable purpose is to further humiliate and embarass gay people by passing a law saying they can't be talked about. There is no objective moral reason to do this.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Max Power - 02-16-2012 12:10 AM
(02-15-2012 11:59 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:(02-15-2012 10:32 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: Does this not impede the First Amendment freedom of speech?
Do teachers in the classroom have a first amendment right to talk about anything they want? Do you feel that way on, oh I don't know, intelligent design?
The First Amendment prohibits establishment of religion. Separation of church and state holla!
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - RaiderATO - 02-16-2012 12:27 AM
(02-16-2012 12:10 AM)Max Power Wrote:(02-15-2012 11:59 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:(02-15-2012 10:32 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: Does this not impede the First Amendment freedom of speech?
Do teachers in the classroom have a first amendment right to talk about anything they want? Do you feel that way on, oh I don't know, intelligent design?
The First Amendment prohibits establishment of religion. Separation of church and state holla!
A teacher talking about intelligent design does not a state religion make. However, if the community decides that something shouldn't be taught in their area then it shouldn't be taught.
I suppose the feds could tie gay education to their monies if they'd like.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Paul M - 02-16-2012 12:51 AM
(02-16-2012 12:10 AM)Max Power Wrote:(02-15-2012 11:59 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:(02-15-2012 10:32 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote: Does this not impede the First Amendment freedom of speech?
Do teachers in the classroom have a first amendment right to talk about anything they want? Do you feel that way on, oh I don't know, intelligent design?
The First Amendment prohibits establishment of religion. Separation of church and state holla!
Why do so many lawyers completely disregard the first amendment, re-write it in their own image, then talk incessantly about unconstitutional violations of their non-existent version.
RE: "Don't Say Gay" Passes TN House Subcommittee - Paul M - 02-16-2012 01:02 AM
(02-16-2012 12:09 AM)Max Power Wrote: We're talking about the government banning discussion of a perfectly harmless, law abiding lifestyle because of the opinion of a bunch of homophobes.
I have a differing opinion than you. That makes me a bigot. I'm proud and I'm loud. Get used to it.
You should celebrate your bigotry too.