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Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - AllTideUp - 06-01-2017 12:01 AM
Here's his article from earlier tonight in USA Today.
Personally, I'm all for it. Woken suggests only having 2 permanent rivals, but I think we could easily do 3 or 4 and still maintain a very high rotation rate. We wouldn't even have to add a 9th game for the time being.
Either way, it's something worth discussing and it would make the Championship Game more compelling to have the two highest rated teams as opposed to potentially weaker division winners.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - JRsec - 06-01-2017 12:11 AM
(06-01-2017 12:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: Here's his article from earlier tonight in USA Today.
Personally, I'm all for it. Woken suggests only having 2 permanent rivals, but I think we could easily do 3 or 4 and still maintain a very high rotation rate. We wouldn't even have to add a 9th game for the time being.
Either way, it's something worth discussing and it would make the Championship Game more compelling to have the two highest rated teams as opposed to potentially weaker division winners.
There are flaws, especially if you have more than two permanent rivals. It would be easy for some school to try to get Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and any other lower tier program assigned as their annual rival. It gives them a leg up on everyone else. And therein lies the rub. Tennessee could legitimately claim both.
And it still requires a rules change.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Gamecock - 06-01-2017 06:18 AM
As long as South Carolina plays UGA, UF, and UT every year I'm OK.
Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Lenvillecards - 06-01-2017 07:12 AM
I like this idea for all conferences, especially the ACC. You get to play everyone H&H within 4 years. As for someone like Tennessee, for example, claiming weaker permanent rivals it would make up for itself in the rotational part of the schedule. Or you could just not allow anyone to have both UK & Vandy.
For example:
Tenn: Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Missouri
Tenn: Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama, Florida, SC, Auburn, Miss State, A&M
Ala: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, A&M, Miss State, Missouri, Kentucky
Ala: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, SC, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - XLance - 06-01-2017 07:25 AM
The ACC tried to eliminate divisions so that they could choose a champion in any manner they chose, but the SEC stabbed them in the back when it came time to vote when the boys from Birmingham sided with the B1G. The B1G!
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Win5002 - 06-01-2017 01:17 PM
(06-01-2017 07:25 AM)XLance Wrote: The ACC tried to eliminate divisions so that they could choose a champion in any manner they chose, but the SEC stabbed them in the back when it came time to vote when the boys from Birmingham sided with the B1G. The B1G!
I think this is the best idea for every league. Each time you do pods one team loses rivals and doesn't really need to play the rest of the pod from a historical standpoint. Give the league the maximum flexibility for scheduling. Its also the best model for an expanded conference playoffs. Why predetermine the conference playoff participants have to be one from each pod, just take the 4 highest finishers. Or even better if we finally get rid of bowl games leagues with 16 or more have 6 conference playoff participants or even 8 if they are 18 or more. This is a similar % of teams making the playoffs in the NFL.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - murrdcu - 06-01-2017 01:48 PM
(06-01-2017 12:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: Here's his article from earlier tonight in USA Today.
Personally, I'm all for it. Woken suggests only having 2 permanent rivals, but I think we could easily do 3 or 4 and still maintain a very high rotation rate. We wouldn't even have to add a 9th game for the time being.
Either way, it's something worth discussing and it would make the Championship Game more compelling to have the two highest rated teams as opposed to potentially weaker division winners.
Link not working.
In an eight conference games model with 14 members, the sweet spot would be 3 permanent rivals and rotate the other ten members every other year. So every four years you play home and away against every opponent.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Soobahk40050 - 06-01-2017 05:37 PM
(06-01-2017 12:11 AM)JRsec Wrote:(06-01-2017 12:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: Here's his article from earlier tonight in USA Today.
Personally, I'm all for it. Woken suggests only having 2 permanent rivals, but I think we could easily do 3 or 4 and still maintain a very high rotation rate. We wouldn't even have to add a 9th game for the time being.
Either way, it's something worth discussing and it would make the Championship Game more compelling to have the two highest rated teams as opposed to potentially weaker division winners.
There are flaws, especially if you have more than two permanent rivals. It would be easy for some school to try to get Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and any other lower tier program assigned as their annual rival. It gives them a leg up on everyone else. And therein lies the rub. Tennessee could legitimately claim both.
And it still requires a rules change.
Younger fans would be upset if we didn't play Florida every year. Older fans if we didn't play Bama.
But I'm in favor of divisionless anyway.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - AllTideUp - 06-02-2017 07:50 AM
(06-01-2017 01:48 PM)murrdcu Wrote:(06-01-2017 12:01 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: Here's his article from earlier tonight in USA Today.
Personally, I'm all for it. Woken suggests only having 2 permanent rivals, but I think we could easily do 3 or 4 and still maintain a very high rotation rate. We wouldn't even have to add a 9th game for the time being.
Either way, it's something worth discussing and it would make the Championship Game more compelling to have the two highest rated teams as opposed to potentially weaker division winners.
Link not working.
In an eight conference games model with 14 members, the sweet spot would be 3 permanent rivals and rotate the other ten members every other year. So every four years you play home and away against every opponent.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2017/05/31/auburn-wants-to-move-to-sec-east-jay-jacobs-gus-malzahn/102362776/
Try this one.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Gamecock - 12-04-2017 11:33 AM
Bump to an old thread but I was thinking about this over the weekend and I really think it deserves further discussion. I was originally stuck on wanting to play UGA/UF/UT every year but I think I can learn to love the setup proposed by SB Nation - which basically gives each team 3 permanent opponents and rotates between 5 of the remaining 10 teams each year.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/14/11895556/sec-football-schedule-format-divisions-rivalries-rotation
[attachment=9240]
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - BePcr07 - 12-04-2017 11:45 AM
With 14, you could do 3 annual rivals + 5 other schools (flip flop every other year) OR 5 annual rivals + 4 other schools OR 7 annual rivals + 3 other schools. I like the first option with 4 annual rivals.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Win5002 - 12-04-2017 01:17 PM
I like this form of scheduling for every league, and it even gets better for the leagues when we see 16 team conferences or if we see a 18 team conference in the future.
The other part of the scheduling that should be mentioned is
don't lock into a situation where each team has to play each other team equally.
Each team probably locks in 3 teams they play annually, a portion of teams they might play bi-annually, possibly some teams they play 2 out of every 3 years or even, some teams in larger leagues may only play another team 1X out of 4 or 6 years(this was suggested by someone in reference to a Big 12/PAC merger or whatever you call it that went to 18/20 teams. In that instance why did Texas or OU want to play Oregon St. or WSU, nor why did the league/networks want to waste slots with games involving Texas/OU with a OSU/WSU/Utah.
The same thing would be the case if a B1G or SEC added 4 teams to get to 18. While certainly the SEC would want to highlight the better games or better regionalized fits. Vandy/Kentucky/MSU/ playing Texas & OU are a waste and whoever Texas & OU bring along from a list of OSU, KS or ISU playing those teams don't provide a lot of value either.
I thought it was a really good concept even if it takes some rule changes. But I know the B1G does not schedule East & West Teams on an equal basis so there is some flexibility already there. The single set of standings would allow for the best teams in the conference playoffs also.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - HeartOfDixie - 12-04-2017 03:45 PM
I am not the biggest fan of how we do things now.
I think that would be a good idea.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - 10thMountain - 12-04-2017 05:16 PM
Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Gamecock - 12-05-2017 07:57 AM
(12-04-2017 05:16 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
I did some playing around with the numbers and I think we would really have to go to a nine game schedule with this model. With 3+5 it is impossible to rotate home and away every time.
Take SC for example:
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
Looks fine right? However when you get to 2020
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, @Miss St
You see the problem, it quickly becomes 3 home/5 road or vice verse.
The only solution is to either go 4 permanent 4 rotating, which doesn’t let you play everyone in two years and creates a weird rotation, or you have to go unbalanced and go to an uneven home/away every year
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - AllTideUp - 12-05-2017 08:21 AM
(12-05-2017 07:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:(12-04-2017 05:16 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
I did some playing around with the numbers and I think we would really have to go to a nine game schedule with this model. With 3+5 it is impossible to rotate home and away every time.
Take SC for example:
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
Looks fine right? However when you get to 2020
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, @Miss St
You see the problem, it quickly becomes 3 home/5 road or vice verse.
The only solution is to either go 4 permanent 4 rotating, which doesn’t let you play everyone in two years and creates a weird rotation, or you have to go unbalanced and go to an uneven home/away every year
I'd vote for 9 games. I think we're heading there anyway actually.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - YNot - 12-07-2017 10:46 AM
(12-05-2017 07:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:(12-04-2017 05:16 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
I did some playing around with the numbers and I think we would really have to go to a nine game schedule with this model. With 3+5 it is impossible to rotate home and away every time.
Take SC for example:
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
Looks fine right? However when you get to 2020
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, @Miss St
You see the problem, it quickly becomes 3 home/5 road or vice verse.
The only solution is to either go 4 permanent 4 rotating, which doesn’t let you play everyone in two years and creates a weird rotation, or you have to go unbalanced and go to an uneven home/away every year
The 8-game solution works, just stagger the schedule so that you ensure 4 home games each year. To do this, simply switch one of the 2020 road games for one of the 2021 home games.
For instance,
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, Arky
2021 - UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Miss St, @TAMU, UK, @LSU, UT
Play Arky in '19 and '20 and Miss St. in '18 and '21. You still play everyone in the conference at least twice in four years.
Pretty simple.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - murrdcu - 12-07-2017 11:41 AM
(12-04-2017 11:33 AM)Gamecock Wrote: Bump to an old thread but I was thinking about this over the weekend and I really think it deserves further discussion. I was originally stuck on wanting to play UGA/UF/UT every year but I think I can learn to love the setup proposed by SB Nation - which basically gives each team 3 permanent opponents and rotates between 5 of the remaining 10 teams each year.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/14/11895556/sec-football-schedule-format-divisions-rivalries-rotation
I’ve been referencing that exact article for years it seems. Hogs would keep their two historic rivals, A&M and Ole Miss, as well as newly minted hillbilly brothers Missouri.
I like the idea of playingeverybody every other year. An open table would keep things interesting as the two top teams would get into the SEC Championship. That would make more games relevant during the season as teams fight for the best record.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - murrdcu - 12-07-2017 11:42 AM
(12-05-2017 08:21 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:(12-05-2017 07:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:(12-04-2017 05:16 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
I did some playing around with the numbers and I think we would really have to go to a nine game schedule with this model. With 3+5 it is impossible to rotate home and away every time.
Take SC for example:
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
Looks fine right? However when you get to 2020
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, @Miss St
You see the problem, it quickly becomes 3 home/5 road or vice verse.
The only solution is to either go 4 permanent 4 rotating, which doesn’t let you play everyone in two years and creates a weird rotation, or you have to go unbalanced and go to an uneven home/away every year
I'd vote for 9 games. I think we're heading there anyway actually.
Go 9 games if we expand to 16 schools.
RE: Dan Wolken says SEC should do away with divisions - Gamecock - 12-07-2017 12:07 PM
(12-07-2017 10:46 AM)YNot Wrote:(12-05-2017 07:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:(12-04-2017 05:16 PM)10thMountain Wrote: Long been a proponent of this idea
I would do it like this:
9 game schedule
- 4 permanent rival games
- 5 rotating home and home with everyone else
- Best two records meet in Atlanta
So for example, A&M might have Arkansas, Missouri, LSU and Ole Miss as permanent every year rivals
The big advantage is that every student and player who completes a 4 year term at their school gets to see/play every opponent in their conference at their stadium and can go to an away game at every opponent venue in their conference. You never go longer than 2 years without playing someone
That way you have full conference cohesion even at 14 members
I did some playing around with the numbers and I think we would really have to go to a nine game schedule with this model. With 3+5 it is impossible to rotate home and away every time.
Take SC for example:
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
Looks fine right? However when you get to 2020
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, @Miss St
You see the problem, it quickly becomes 3 home/5 road or vice verse.
The only solution is to either go 4 permanent 4 rotating, which doesn’t let you play everyone in two years and creates a weird rotation, or you have to go unbalanced and go to an uneven home/away every year
The 8-game solution works, just stagger the schedule so that you ensure 4 home games each year. To do this, simply switch one of the 2020 road games for one of the 2021 home games.
For instance,
2018 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
Auburn, @Bama, Missouri, @Ole Miss, Miss St
2019- UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Arky, TAMU, @UK, LSU, @UT
2020 - @UF, UGA, @Vandy
@Auburn, Bama, @Missouri, Ole Miss, Arky
2021 - UF, @UGA, Vandy
@Miss St, @TAMU, UK, @LSU, UT
Play Arky in '19 and '20 and Miss St. in '18 and '21. You still play everyone in the conference at least twice in four years.
Pretty simple.
I hadn't thought of that. That works perfectly.