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+----- Thread: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School (/thread-839312.html)
“Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - Lord Stanley - 01-05-2018 01:34 PM
Quote:Uncivil,” an excellent new podcast about the Civil War hosted by Jack Hitt and Chenjerai Kumanyika, begins with a visit this summer to a controversial statue. It doesn’t involve Robert E. Lee or the Confederate flag, they tell us: it’s the Emancipation Memorial in Washington, D.C., which was put up in 1876.
Abraham Lincoln stands about twenty feet tall, impeccably dressed, his hand extended. Beneath him is a black man on his knees, naked but for a loincloth, a broken shackle on his arm. He looks almost as if he might be “shining Lincoln’s shoes,” Kumanyika tells us. “Lincoln is still standing over the dude.” The statue doesn’t give black people “any credit or represent the agency of black people in freeing themselves,”
Quote:“One of the things that also gets covered up is really just all stories of African-American agency in the war,” Hitt told me. The traditional narrative, he said, tends to be that enslaved people “sat on the fields waiting for the nice white Yankees to come down and tell them they were free to go.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/podcast-dept/uncivil-the-civil-war-stories-we-didnt-learn-in-school
http://uncivil.show/
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - arkstfan - 01-05-2018 02:12 PM
(01-05-2018 01:34 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:Quote:Uncivil,” an excellent new podcast about the Civil War hosted by Jack Hitt and Chenjerai Kumanyika, begins with a visit this summer to a controversial statue. It doesn’t involve Robert E. Lee or the Confederate flag, they tell us: it’s the Emancipation Memorial in Washington, D.C., which was put up in 1876.
Abraham Lincoln stands about twenty feet tall, impeccably dressed, his hand extended. Beneath him is a black man on his knees, naked but for a loincloth, a broken shackle on his arm. He looks almost as if he might be “shining Lincoln’s shoes,” Kumanyika tells us. “Lincoln is still standing over the dude.” The statue doesn’t give black people “any credit or represent the agency of black people in freeing themselves,”
Quote:“One of the things that also gets covered up is really just all stories of African-American agency in the war,” Hitt told me. The traditional narrative, he said, tends to be that enslaved people “sat on the fields waiting for the nice white Yankees to come down and tell them they were free to go.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/podcast-dept/uncivil-the-civil-war-stories-we-didnt-learn-in-school
http://uncivil.show/
Anyone with a real understanding of the Civil War knows slaves fled the plantations in huge numbers to get to Union lines and many served as unofficial scouts for the Union before they were permitted to enlist.
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - Crebman - 01-06-2018 10:39 AM
(01-05-2018 02:12 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-05-2018 01:34 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:Quote:Uncivil,” an excellent new podcast about the Civil War hosted by Jack Hitt and Chenjerai Kumanyika, begins with a visit this summer to a controversial statue. It doesn’t involve Robert E. Lee or the Confederate flag, they tell us: it’s the Emancipation Memorial in Washington, D.C., which was put up in 1876.
Abraham Lincoln stands about twenty feet tall, impeccably dressed, his hand extended. Beneath him is a black man on his knees, naked but for a loincloth, a broken shackle on his arm. He looks almost as if he might be “shining Lincoln’s shoes,” Kumanyika tells us. “Lincoln is still standing over the dude.” The statue doesn’t give black people “any credit or represent the agency of black people in freeing themselves,”
Quote:“One of the things that also gets covered up is really just all stories of African-American agency in the war,” Hitt told me. The traditional narrative, he said, tends to be that enslaved people “sat on the fields waiting for the nice white Yankees to come down and tell them they were free to go.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/podcast-dept/uncivil-the-civil-war-stories-we-didnt-learn-in-school
http://uncivil.show/
Anyone with a real understanding of the Civil War knows slaves fled the plantations in huge numbers to get to Union lines and many served as unofficial scouts for the Union before they were permitted to enlist.
Yep. Unfortunately, probably 50% of the US adult population couldn't give you the decade the Civil War took place in let alone much of any of the happenings. We are a country of the ignorant, historically speaking.....
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - Native Georgian - 01-07-2018 06:34 PM
(01-06-2018 10:39 AM)Crebman Wrote: Unfortunately, probably 50% of the US adult population couldn't give you the decade the Civil War took place in let alone much of any of the happenings. We are a country of the ignorant, historically speaking.....Agreed.
I don’t know where to obtain reliable/up-to-date statistical data about these things. I know that in the 1980s the US Dept. of Education organized a truly massive survey of high-school students (either 11th/12th grades or both, not sure which) to test knowledge of US civics/history and English-language literature, possibly other subjects. I think 1985 and ’86 were the prime years of the survey. I don’t know when the results were published, but I got a chance to see the data in about ’89 or ’90 and “sobering” was the mildest way to describe it. Not quite Beavis/Butthead type ignorance but pointing in that direction.
Sometimes when I hear a prominent political figure like Tom Perez (Chairman of the National Committee for one of the two major parties; graduate of Harvard Law School) give a public lecture at a respected/mainstream venue (University of Indiana Law School, in this instance) and declare “The Electoral College is not a creation of the Constitution; it doesn’t have to be there,” I might spend a few seconds wondering how someone so cosmically stupid/uninformed in the subject matter of his own chosen profession could rise to a position of national prominence. But really, it’s not a surprise. The whole country is going down that same path and has been for a long time. Ignorance of the 1860s is the least of our worries.
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - HeartOfDixie - 01-07-2018 11:59 PM
I'd call much of that evidence of the modern habit of overemphasizing to paint a more equal narrative.
There simply wasn't an eruption or outpouring of black resistance which was inspired by the war, and that is often due to the fact that slaves suffered right along their white neighbors when the Union Army moved through an area. There is also the fact that until 1864 the Union Army discouraged the idea that the war was about slaves and the rank and file were often violently opposed to the idea that they were dying en masse for slaves.
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - Fitbud - 01-08-2018 12:54 PM
(01-06-2018 10:39 AM)Crebman Wrote:(01-05-2018 02:12 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-05-2018 01:34 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:Quote:Uncivil,” an excellent new podcast about the Civil War hosted by Jack Hitt and Chenjerai Kumanyika, begins with a visit this summer to a controversial statue. It doesn’t involve Robert E. Lee or the Confederate flag, they tell us: it’s the Emancipation Memorial in Washington, D.C., which was put up in 1876.
Abraham Lincoln stands about twenty feet tall, impeccably dressed, his hand extended. Beneath him is a black man on his knees, naked but for a loincloth, a broken shackle on his arm. He looks almost as if he might be “shining Lincoln’s shoes,” Kumanyika tells us. “Lincoln is still standing over the dude.” The statue doesn’t give black people “any credit or represent the agency of black people in freeing themselves,”
Quote:“One of the things that also gets covered up is really just all stories of African-American agency in the war,” Hitt told me. The traditional narrative, he said, tends to be that enslaved people “sat on the fields waiting for the nice white Yankees to come down and tell them they were free to go.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/podcast-dept/uncivil-the-civil-war-stories-we-didnt-learn-in-school
http://uncivil.show/
Anyone with a real understanding of the Civil War knows slaves fled the plantations in huge numbers to get to Union lines and many served as unofficial scouts for the Union before they were permitted to enlist.
Yep. Unfortunately, probably 50% of the US adult population couldn't give you the decade the Civil War took place in let alone much of any of the happenings. We are a country of the ignorant, historically speaking.....
I don't know about other states but in Texas, The Civil War was the last thing in the curriculum that was to be taught so it always came at the end of the school year.
More times than not, we never got to it because of standardized testing. For this reason, we often had to go into a very brief "Causes and Effects" of the Civil war unit.
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - Lord Stanley - 01-08-2018 01:22 PM
I've finally had the chance to go through most of these, at least the ones I thought I would find interesting. While from a historical context there is a lot to listen to and understand, the underlying tone is "White People Bad" across all aspects.
Now I don't need constant notes about how slavery started, how slavery was perpetuated, and how slavery still exists today, but there is a very focused lens on "everything white people did on both sides was actually racist" and "everthing about the current USA is racist, it's in our DNA." Those garbage comments really put a damper on what was interesting commentary on stories about counterfeiting Confederate money (The Paper - this is a good one) to undermine the southern treasury, and Civil War reenactors (The Soldiers) and the myths of the Civil War (The Takedown.) This last one is particularly aggressive.
Too bad really. I had higher hopes than a virtue signal about "Bad whitey and his terrible adventures in slavery."
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - arkstfan - 01-08-2018 02:40 PM
I enjoyed the blog series from NY Times: Disunion. Lot of stuff not many people know about, for example Manhattan's mayor advocating for secession, the turmoil in the south as many recent immigrants and much of the population in the hills and mountains were opposed to secession, more may be aware of Sam Houston predicting secession would result in a union victory and the end of slavery and getting removed from office as governor because of his opposition.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/opinion/disunion.html
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - bullet - 01-11-2018 11:50 AM
(01-08-2018 12:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:(01-06-2018 10:39 AM)Crebman Wrote:(01-05-2018 02:12 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-05-2018 01:34 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:Quote:Uncivil,” an excellent new podcast about the Civil War hosted by Jack Hitt and Chenjerai Kumanyika, begins with a visit this summer to a controversial statue. It doesn’t involve Robert E. Lee or the Confederate flag, they tell us: it’s the Emancipation Memorial in Washington, D.C., which was put up in 1876.
Abraham Lincoln stands about twenty feet tall, impeccably dressed, his hand extended. Beneath him is a black man on his knees, naked but for a loincloth, a broken shackle on his arm. He looks almost as if he might be “shining Lincoln’s shoes,” Kumanyika tells us. “Lincoln is still standing over the dude.” The statue doesn’t give black people “any credit or represent the agency of black people in freeing themselves,”
Quote:“One of the things that also gets covered up is really just all stories of African-American agency in the war,” Hitt told me. The traditional narrative, he said, tends to be that enslaved people “sat on the fields waiting for the nice white Yankees to come down and tell them they were free to go.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/podcast-dept/uncivil-the-civil-war-stories-we-didnt-learn-in-school
http://uncivil.show/
Anyone with a real understanding of the Civil War knows slaves fled the plantations in huge numbers to get to Union lines and many served as unofficial scouts for the Union before they were permitted to enlist.
Yep. Unfortunately, probably 50% of the US adult population couldn't give you the decade the Civil War took place in let alone much of any of the happenings. We are a country of the ignorant, historically speaking.....
I don't know about other states but in Texas, The Civil War was the last thing in the curriculum that was to be taught so it always came at the end of the school year.
More times than not, we never got to it because of standardized testing. For this reason, we often had to go into a very brief "Causes and Effects" of the Civil war unit.
It always got covered in the era before standardized testing. That doesn't explain that mid-80s testing results.
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - bullet - 01-11-2018 11:54 AM
(01-08-2018 01:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I've finally had the chance to go through most of these, at least the ones I thought I would find interesting. While from a historical context there is a lot to listen to and understand, the underlying tone is "White People Bad" across all aspects.
Now I don't need constant notes about how slavery started, how slavery was perpetuated, and how slavery still exists today, but there is a very focused lens on "everything white people did on both sides was actually racist" and "everthing about the current USA is racist, it's in our DNA." Those garbage comments really put a damper on what was interesting commentary on stories about counterfeiting Confederate money (The Paper - this is a good one) to undermine the southern treasury, and Civil War reenactors (The Soldiers) and the myths of the Civil War (The Takedown.) This last one is particularly aggressive.
Too bad really. I had higher hopes than a virtue signal about "Bad whitey and his terrible adventures in slavery."
Well one of the major reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation was that the South couldn't continue the war without slave labor. The Union Army was ahead of the country in supporting freedom because they started seeing slaves digging entrenchments and bringing in supplies and manning the farms. When slaves started running away it crippled the economy. Which, of course, is why the leaders of the South really wanted to keep slavery.
“Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - arkstfan - 01-11-2018 02:20 PM
(01-11-2018 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:(01-08-2018 01:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I've finally had the chance to go through most of these, at least the ones I thought I would find interesting. While from a historical context there is a lot to listen to and understand, the underlying tone is "White People Bad" across all aspects.
Now I don't need constant notes about how slavery started, how slavery was perpetuated, and how slavery still exists today, but there is a very focused lens on "everything white people did on both sides was actually racist" and "everthing about the current USA is racist, it's in our DNA." Those garbage comments really put a damper on what was interesting commentary on stories about counterfeiting Confederate money (The Paper - this is a good one) to undermine the southern treasury, and Civil War reenactors (The Soldiers) and the myths of the Civil War (The Takedown.) This last one is particularly aggressive.
Too bad really. I had higher hopes than a virtue signal about "Bad whitey and his terrible adventures in slavery."
Well one of the major reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation was that the South couldn't continue the war without slave labor. The Union Army was ahead of the country in supporting freedom because they started seeing slaves digging entrenchments and bringing in supplies and manning the farms. When slaves started running away it crippled the economy. Which, of course, is why the leaders of the South really wanted to keep slavery.
Plus it neutered the sentiment of the English upper class to aid the Confederacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: “Uncivil”: The Civil War Stories We Didn’t Learn in School - bullet - 01-11-2018 02:32 PM
(01-11-2018 02:20 PM)arkstfan Wrote:That's always stated as the main reason. To keep England and France from aiding the Confederacy.(01-11-2018 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:(01-08-2018 01:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote: I've finally had the chance to go through most of these, at least the ones I thought I would find interesting. While from a historical context there is a lot to listen to and understand, the underlying tone is "White People Bad" across all aspects.
Now I don't need constant notes about how slavery started, how slavery was perpetuated, and how slavery still exists today, but there is a very focused lens on "everything white people did on both sides was actually racist" and "everthing about the current USA is racist, it's in our DNA." Those garbage comments really put a damper on what was interesting commentary on stories about counterfeiting Confederate money (The Paper - this is a good one) to undermine the southern treasury, and Civil War reenactors (The Soldiers) and the myths of the Civil War (The Takedown.) This last one is particularly aggressive.
Too bad really. I had higher hopes than a virtue signal about "Bad whitey and his terrible adventures in slavery."
Well one of the major reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation was that the South couldn't continue the war without slave labor. The Union Army was ahead of the country in supporting freedom because they started seeing slaves digging entrenchments and bringing in supplies and manning the farms. When slaves started running away it crippled the economy. Which, of course, is why the leaders of the South really wanted to keep slavery.
Plus it neutered the sentiment of the English upper class to aid the Confederacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk