(01-23-2018 03:59 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU needs to come to grips with this: UH imposed their will on them. WSU didn't beat themselves, UH beat them. Samson outcoached Marshal. UH took it to them and won. Nothing more, nothing less.

WSU is going to have to accept that there will be games in the AAC where the other team imposes their will on them. I don't think that happened in the MVC where if WSU did lose, they probably did beat themselves. In the AAC, there are nights you will be defeated, even with your best effort. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. That's basketball in the AAC.

If that is true then Wichita State's current "Golden Era" will have peaked last year and we are now in decline. You see, Wichita State is (has been) a National Power program as defined by the entire college basketball world. National Powers can goof up from time to time, they can even lose hotly contested battles between other National Powers, but they don't get "imposed upon" by the likes of a Cooga.

We've been doing the imposing for the last half decade against the Flagships of the B1G, B12-2, Pac12, Gonzaga etc. Of course we slip up from time to time against the Creightons and the Houstons of the world, but so does everybody.

I keep forgetting we joined the ACC and not the AAC. It's a clash of the bball titans in America each and every night in this league; Houston, Tulsa, Tulsane, ECU, SMOO, UCF, USF... a veritable who's who of ESPN Sportcenter's nightly focus!!!111

The Shockers just need to learn their place. That place being somewhere between ECU and Coogtown.


T


...

As stated. WSU is a national power as was George Mason. A one hit wonder.

(01-23-2018 04:02 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:59 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU needs to come to grips with this: UH imposed their will on them. WSU didn't beat themselves, UH beat them. Samson outcoached Marshal. UH took it to them and won. Nothing more, nothing less.

WSU is going to have to accept that there will be games in the AAC where the other team imposes their will on them. I don't think that happened in the MVC where if WSU did lose, they probably did beat themselves. In the AAC, there are nights you will be defeated, even with your best effort. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. That's basketball in the AAC.

If that is true then Wichita State's current "Golden Era" will have peaked last year and we are now in decline. You see, Wichita State is (has been) a National Power program as defined by the entire college basketball world. National Powers can goof up from time to time, they can even lose hotly contested battles between other National Powers, but they don't get "imposed upon" by the likes of a Cooga.

We've been doing the imposing for the last half decade against the Flagships of the B1G, B12-2, Pac12, Gonzaga etc. Of course we slip up from time to time against the Creightons and the Houstons of the world, but so does everybody.

I keep forgetting we joined the ACC and not the AAC. It's a clash of the bball titans in America each and every night in this league; Houston, Tulsa, Tulsane, ECU, SMOO, UCF, USF... a veritable who's who of ESPN Sportcenter's nightly focus!!!111

The Shockers just need to learn their place. That place being somewhere between ECU and Coogtown.


T


...

As stated. WSU is a national power as was George Mason. A one hit wonder.

Please stop posting if you're going to say this BS. No offense to George Mason who is a nice program that had a great run, Wichita is clearly on a different level. You make yourself look bad when traffic in this BS. I hope others don't take this as a reflection on UC fans' basketball knowledge.

(01-23-2018 04:02 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:59 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU needs to come to grips with this: UH imposed their will on them. WSU didn't beat themselves, UH beat them. Samson outcoached Marshal. UH took it to them and won. Nothing more, nothing less.

WSU is going to have to accept that there will be games in the AAC where the other team imposes their will on them. I don't think that happened in the MVC where if WSU did lose, they probably did beat themselves. In the AAC, there are nights you will be defeated, even with your best effort. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. That's basketball in the AAC.

If that is true then Wichita State's current "Golden Era" will have peaked last year and we are now in decline. You see, Wichita State is (has been) a National Power program as defined by the entire college basketball world. National Powers can goof up from time to time, they can even lose hotly contested battles between other National Powers, but they don't get "imposed upon" by the likes of a Cooga.

We've been doing the imposing for the last half decade against the Flagships of the B1G, B12-2, Pac12, Gonzaga etc. Of course we slip up from time to time against the Creightons and the Houstons of the world, but so does everybody.

I keep forgetting we joined the ACC and not the AAC. It's a clash of the bball titans in America each and every night in this league; Houston, Tulsa, Tulsane, ECU, SMOO, UCF, USF... a veritable who's who of ESPN Sportcenter's nightly focus!!!111

The Shockers just need to learn their place. That place being somewhere between ECU and Coogtown.


T


...

As stated. WSU is a national power as was George Mason. A one hit wonder.

Please stop posting if you're going to say this BS. No offense to George Mason who is a nice program that had a great run, Wichita is clearly on a different level. You make yourself look bad when traffic in this BS. I hope others don't take this as a reflection on UC fans' basketball knowledge.

(01-23-2018 04:17 PM)payday Wrote:  My point is...DOOK, UNC, UK, Kansas, Florida is a current national power. UCLA, Indiana, Cincy are historical ones. I just don’t buy the WSU is a national power meme.

(01-23-2018 04:17 PM)payday Wrote:  My point is...DOOK, UNC, UK, Kansas, Florida is a current national power. UCLA, Indiana, Cincy are historical ones. I just don’t buy the WSU is a national power meme.

(01-23-2018 03:17 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 02:59 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 01:27 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 12:44 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 11:54 AM)ShockerFever Wrote:  So Top 10 teams aren’t allowed to have 2-game skids?

Got it.

and struggled with tulsa and uconn...with the only 2 decent regular seasons wins you have had in 2 years you shot over 60% from 3

if im honest wichita is a tourney caliber team, you arent a top 10 caliber team

i said this earlier, good teams bring out your flaws...the more good teams you play the more film there is of your flaws..
i think wsu flaws have been put in the fore front..there is now scout film on how to beat you..

i know the narrative from wsu is we are playing bad...or smu got lucky..
when it should be teams are figuring us out

if you watched the houston game and familiar with what we do, their was definitely strategy in how we played ..Houston didnt play vanbeck who regular does 20 mins per for us, likely because he couldn't pressure your guards...we didnt play harris or fabian (taller skinnier big men) who are our #2 and #3 center but instead played brady and zanna who are more muscler. zanna hadnt played meaningful minutes in 7-8 games..if not for being fouled out this would have the most minutes he played all season.

Sampson came in with a plan to exploit things he saw about Wichita

Is Houston good? Do you think they’re a better team than WSU?

Well now I think you're confusing "talented" with "better".

Yes, Houston is good, and WSU may have more talent on their roster. But that doesn't always mean "better", and UH was absolutely better than WSU on Saturday. It wasn't even close. This is indisputable. And if WSU is as good you YOU think they are, they should never have lost to UH. That is my opinion.

But you're missing Pesik's point: that WSU was outcoached.

So you’re strictly determining a team’s worth based on head-to-head? Hm, interesting.

So did two weeks ago not matter or is recency bias a factor?

(01-23-2018 04:27 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:17 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 02:59 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 01:27 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 12:44 PM)pesik Wrote:  and struggled with tulsa and uconn...with the only 2 decent regular seasons wins you have had in 2 years you shot over 60% from 3

if im honest wichita is a tourney caliber team, you arent a top 10 caliber team

i said this earlier, good teams bring out your flaws...the more good teams you play the more film there is of your flaws..
i think wsu flaws have been put in the fore front..there is now scout film on how to beat you..

i know the narrative from wsu is we are playing bad...or smu got lucky..
when it should be teams are figuring us out

if you watched the houston game and familiar with what we do, their was definitely strategy in how we played ..Houston didnt play vanbeck who regular does 20 mins per for us, likely because he couldn't pressure your guards...we didnt play harris or fabian (taller skinnier big men) who are our #2 and #3 center but instead played brady and zanna who are more muscler. zanna hadnt played meaningful minutes in 7-8 games..if not for being fouled out this would have the most minutes he played all season.

Sampson came in with a plan to exploit things he saw about Wichita

Is Houston good? Do you think they’re a better team than WSU?

Well now I think you're confusing "talented" with "better".

Yes, Houston is good, and WSU may have more talent on their roster. But that doesn't always mean "better", and UH was absolutely better than WSU on Saturday. It wasn't even close. This is indisputable. And if WSU is as good you YOU think they are, they should never have lost to UH. That is my opinion.

But you're missing Pesik's point: that WSU was outcoached.

So you’re strictly determining a team’s worth based on head-to-head? Hm, interesting.

So did two weeks ago not matter or is recency bias a factor?

I'm not understanding why it's so hard for you to realize the gap you thought was there is at least smaller than you thought it was, and might not even really be there at all?

Teams get better as time goes on, so why is it so hard for you to conceptualize the notion that the same team that got beat by Drexel is not the same team as the team that beat WSU, even though they're the same team?

Holy cow I had to proof that 3 times to make sure it came out right.

(01-23-2018 04:23 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  When VCU and Mason can claim a Final Four, a No.1 seed, an undefeated season, another Sweet 16, 6 consecutive years of winning a tournament game, weeks and weeks of Top 10 rankings covering multiple seasons, then get back to me.

People are telling Cold to drop the act and some of it deservedly so, but you need to drop your little act too, unless you really are that insecure and brainless.

(01-23-2018 04:34 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 04:27 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:17 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 02:59 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 01:27 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Is Houston good? Do you think they’re a better team than WSU?

Well now I think you're confusing "talented" with "better".

Yes, Houston is good, and WSU may have more talent on their roster. But that doesn't always mean "better", and UH was absolutely better than WSU on Saturday. It wasn't even close. This is indisputable. And if WSU is as good you YOU think they are, they should never have lost to UH. That is my opinion.

But you're missing Pesik's point: that WSU was outcoached.

So you’re strictly determining a team’s worth based on head-to-head? Hm, interesting.

So did two weeks ago not matter or is recency bias a factor?

I'm not understanding why it's so hard for you to realize the gap you thought was there is at least smaller than you thought it was, and might not even really be there at all?

Teams get better as time goes on, so why is it so hard for you to conceptualize the notion that the same team that got beat by Drexel is not the same team as the team that beat WSU, even though they're the same team?

Holy cow I had to proof that 3 times to make sure it came out right.

Okie dokie. I expect Houston to be in the tournament as a middleish seed then, maybe around 5 or 6?

Glad I got that cleared up.

Btw, I never said Houston was bad or incapable of improving. Some people are judging WSU’s whole body of work while only judging Houston’s last 5 days of work. Seems a little unfair.

(01-23-2018 04:20 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 04:17 PM)payday Wrote:  My point is...DOOK, UNC, UK, Kansas, Florida is a current national power. UCLA, Indiana, Cincy are historical ones. I just don’t buy the WSU is a national power meme.

Sorry but Cincy isn't anywhere nearly UCLA and Indiana as a historical name.

(01-23-2018 04:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 04:17 PM)payday Wrote:  My point is...DOOK, UNC, UK, Kansas, Florida is a current national power. UCLA, Indiana, Cincy are historical ones. I just don’t buy the WSU is a national power meme.

Who is arguing they are Duke, UNC, UK or Kansas? They're a really good program that has been incredibly relevant the last 5-10 years. They remind me a lot of the Gonzaga program 5 or 6 years ago. Do they get to the consistent levels Gonzaga has...i doubt it, but I think that's a fair comparison of where they are. The big thing they've been able to do is keep Marshall (like Gonzaga has kept Few). They also invest in their program. They've managed to get in a bigger conference than Gonzaga as well, so it's not that crazy that they could become a Gonzaga like program, which my guess is what they see themselves as trying to achieve.

(01-23-2018 04:02 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:59 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU needs to come to grips with this: UH imposed their will on them. WSU didn't beat themselves, UH beat them. Samson outcoached Marshal. UH took it to them and won. Nothing more, nothing less.

WSU is going to have to accept that there will be games in the AAC where the other team imposes their will on them. I don't think that happened in the MVC where if WSU did lose, they probably did beat themselves. In the AAC, there are nights you will be defeated, even with your best effort. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. That's basketball in the AAC.

If that is true then Wichita State's current "Golden Era" will have peaked last year and we are now in decline. You see, Wichita State is (has been) a National Power program as defined by the entire college basketball world. National Powers can goof up from time to time, they can even lose hotly contested battles between other National Powers, but they don't get "imposed upon" by the likes of a Cooga.

We've been doing the imposing for the last half decade against the Flagships of the B1G, B12-2, Pac12, Gonzaga etc. Of course we slip up from time to time against the Creightons and the Houstons of the world, but so does everybody.

I keep forgetting we joined the ACC and not the AAC. It's a clash of the bball titans in America each and every night in this league; Houston, Tulsa, Tulsane, ECU, SMOO, UCF, USF... a veritable who's who of ESPN Sportcenter's nightly focus!!!111

The Shockers just need to learn their place. That place being somewhere between ECU and Coogtown.


T


...

As stated. WSU is a national power as was George Mason. A one hit wonder.

Please stop posting if you're going to say this BS. No offense to George Mason who is a nice program that had a great run, Wichita is clearly on a different level. You make yourself look bad when traffic in this BS. I hope others don't take this as a reflection on UC fans' basketball knowledge.

(01-23-2018 04:17 PM)payday Wrote:  My point is...DOOK, UNC, UK, Kansas, Florida is a current national power. UCLA, Indiana, Cincy are historical ones. I just don’t buy the WSU is a national power meme.

Quote:The slate, which was announced Thursday, features the Pirates’ most attractive non-league home game in many years. National power Wichita State comes to the Prudential Center on Dec. 19, a return visit for last year’s trip to Wichita, Kansas.

Quote:This is especially important after the Pirates were controlled in their toughest road test by national power Wichita State, 77-68.

Quote:The Ramblers finished last season 10-22 overall, 4-14 in the MVC. It was Loyola's first season in the highly competitive Valley, which boasts national power Wichita State.

Quote:CSU set to open year Friday at national power Wichita State

Quote:Marshall, 51, has built the Shockers program from perpetual mediocrity in the Missouri Valley Conference into a burgeoning national power.

Quote: The home opener versus Southern Conference-rival Davidson, a home date with national-power Wichita State

Quote:Yes, this move will include all of Wichita State’s sports. But it’s obviously rooted in the school’s desire to play in a better men’s basketball league now that the Shockers have made six straight NCAA Tournaments and established themselves as a national power -- most notably while reaching the 2013 Final Four. They’ve averaged 30.4 wins the past five seasons and advanced in the NCAA Tournament each year.

Quote:Wichita State continued to cement its place as a national power in NCAA men’s basketball in 2015.

Quote:WE BREAK DOWN HOW WICHITA STATE BECAME A NATIONAL POWER

Quote:Waving signs that applauded their unblemished record, fans packed inside Koch Arena serenaded a senior class led by Early that managed to elevate the program from a solid mid-major into a national power in the midst of a memorable season.

Quote:But Shockers' coach Gregg Marshall, who arrived at Wichita in 2007, has taken the program to new heights, coaching the Shockers to a 261-90 record (.744) in 11 years. He has reestablished the Shockers as a regional and national power

Quote:Wichita State’s basketball program is the bait on the hook. The addition of the Shockers would instantly bolster the American Athletic Conference into one of the elite basketball conferences in the nation. The Shockers resume of success is lined with 13 NCAA tournament appearances. In the past four seasons, head coach Gregg Marshall has architected a 35-1 season, as well as a Final 4 and Sweet 16 appearance. They are no mid-major. They are a nationally relevant program, capable of competing with the Power 5 and they are powerful.

Quote:“Wichita State has raised the profile of the league, but they’ve also raised the bar inside the league,” Elgin said. “Coaches’ compensation has improved, practice facilities have been improved. You can’t really overstate what the rise of the Shockers as a national power means. They’ve kept our league in the national focus. They beat Indiana and Kansas in a weekend last March. And there is enough depth on Gregg Marshall’s roster that the program will be healthy for a long time.”

Quote:Wichita State’s duality as a dominant national program from outside of a power conference is becoming an increasing anomaly. The Shockers may play in the Missouri Valley Conference, but they have a national brand, a consistently packed arena and they pay coach Gregg Marshall well over $3 million per year. Essentially, everything about them aside from their league schedule and the respect from the NCAA selection committee is high-major.

Quote:Wichita State has risen to a national power in some sports, and a conference power in all. In the six sports it holds teams for both men and women — baseball/softball, basketball, cross country, golf, tennis, and track and field — as well as women’s volleyball, the school has collected a total of 51 MVC championships in just the last 10 years.

Quote:Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall has tried to publicly goad Kansas into agreeing to a home-and-home series for the past couple years to no avail. Kansas coach Bill Self feels his program has nothing to gain by deviating from his longstanding policy of not scheduling the Shockers even as they have ascended from quality mid-major to budding national power.

Quote:Marshall has elevated his program to the status of national power over the past several years.

Quote:In the 1990s, a decade fans would like to erase, it looked as if WSU might never again be a national power, much less a top-25 team.

Quote:Marshall's "play angry" mantra and approach have turned Wichita State basketball into a national power with a legitimate opportunity to win the American Athletic Conference in its inaugural season with the league.