+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? (/thread-844077.html)
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - bluesox - 03-03-2018 11:56 AM
Byu all sports but football to offset Hawaii football only is the best move for the mwc plus make them play 6 teams per year. Im not sure why Gonzaga needs to leave the wcc either, good institutional fit and they are doing fine.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Kittonhead - 03-03-2018 12:05 PM
If Gonzaga & BYU are going bb to the MWC there has to be a 14th.
The 14th could be New Mexico State. It wouldn't be a situation like BYU where they can't convince NMSU fb to join. It's a situation where they don't want NMSU fb to join.
Mountain: BYU, Utah St, WYO, Colorado St, AFA, UNM, NMSU
West: Boise, Gonzaga, Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno, San Diego St
Run divisions like this to be more compact for Olympic sports travel. Travel is a real premium out west because of the distances and highly appreciated.
It also proves to the linear guys the MWC is still has something to offer, which at the moment there are some questions especially at the 1 million per school level.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Kittonhead - 03-03-2018 12:14 PM
(03-03-2018 11:56 AM)bluesox Wrote: Byu all sports but football to offset Hawaii football only is the best move for the mwc plus make them play 6 teams per year. Im not sure why Gonzaga needs to leave the wcc either, good institutional fit and they are doing fine.
Its a mad scramble among high mid major leagues to stay in the linear game.
CUSA's TV deal was diminished severely. SBC had to sell its soul to ESPN+ to stay in the game. MVC's linear distribution in basketball is now less than the MAC's. A10 has a lot of TV because they cashed in with the moment they had Butler.
The MWC is worried about its next linear deal. They've been off the national stage in FB in recent years and done nothing in the NCAA tourney. The WCC is downright petrified of being reduced to a streaming only package after 2 decades of Gonzaga conveniently serving as a widget for them on ESPN.
The only conference with any real optimism on the linear front is the AAC because of how football has been performing and with valued basketball names. For everyone else its a panic situation right now.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - NoDak - 03-03-2018 12:47 PM
BYU going to the MWC would be too much pride loss for the LDS church. It won’t happen as it is an admittance that their original decision to leave was wrong.
The original members of the MWC are still livid over BYU’s attempt to get some MWC members back to the WAC and give BYU a sweetheart deal like Notre Dame. Wyoming would veto any deal if they have votes of CSU, Air Force, and others.
BYU would be better to look to the AAC for expansion in some capacity. The AAC is a group of schools that want in to the Big12, which better defines BYU.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Kittonhead - 03-03-2018 12:57 PM
(03-03-2018 12:47 PM)NoDak Wrote: BYU going to the MWC would be too much pride loss for the LDS church. It won’t happen as it is an admittance that their original decision to leave was wrong.
The original members of the MWC are still livid over BYU’s attempt to get some MWC members back to the WAC and give BYU a sweetheart deal like Notre Dame. Wyoming would veto any deal if they have votes of CSU, Air Force, and others.
BYU would be better to look to the AAC for expansion in some capacity. The AAC is a group of schools that want in to the Big12, which better defines BYU.
But that inherent instability of the AAC might be a reason why BYU would not want to hitch to that wagon.
In my estimation if BYU wanted to stay behind in the WCC w/o Gonzaga that would be fine too. Without the Zags conference play should be more balanced. They could NMSU that conference if they wanted.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Attackcoog - 03-03-2018 02:14 PM
(03-03-2018 12:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:(03-03-2018 11:56 AM)bluesox Wrote: Byu all sports but football to offset Hawaii football only is the best move for the mwc plus make them play 6 teams per year. Im not sure why Gonzaga needs to leave the wcc either, good institutional fit and they are doing fine.
Its a mad scramble among high mid major leagues to stay in the linear game.
CUSA's TV deal was diminished severely. SBC had to sell its soul to ESPN+ to stay in the game. MVC's linear distribution in basketball is now less than the MAC's. A10 has a lot of TV because they cashed in with the moment they had Butler.
The MWC is worried about its next linear deal. They've been off the national stage in FB in recent years and done nothing in the NCAA tourney. The WCC is downright petrified of being reduced to a streaming only package after 2 decades of Gonzaga conveniently serving as a widget for them on ESPN.
The only conference with any real optimism on the linear front is the AAC because of how football has been performing and with valued basketball names. For everyone else its a panic situation right now.
Im not sure how worried the MW is about linear television. In fact, I think their concerns lie elsewhere. I think they are concerned about their fan base. They have been seeing a disconcerting erosion in their attendance numbers. Their statements have made it pretty clear they have used fan feedback to identify late television start times as a major reason fans did not attend.
The MW has essentially said they are willing to go all digital on their own network in order to largely return to more traditional start times that are optimal for fan attendance. Basically, the MW has figured out that the low 1 million a team revenue year they derive for TV is essentially costing them about the same amount in "in stadium" revenue (from lost ticket/concession/parking sales) but also is slowly costing them their fan base.
Perhaps its just a ploy for more money--but I dont think so. I think we will see far fewer late slot games and I think those late slots will be spread around so no MW team gets stuck with more than one late home game. I also think they use that leverage for a raise (by selling the late night games for a big premium)---and they end up carrying more of their games on their own digital network (where start times are completely at the whim of the individual schools). They will end up with less linear TV--but greater overall revenue--and hopefully, stem the tide of declining attendance (or better yet, start growing attendance).
As for adding high end basketball only schools-I think thats about trying to be a high major league and manufacturing more NCAA bids and more NCAA credits (which is can be a another good revenue stream).
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Stugray2 - 03-03-2018 02:24 PM
(03-03-2018 12:47 PM)NoDak Wrote: BYU going to the MWC would be too much pride loss for the LDS church. It won’t happen as it is an admittance that their original decision to leave was wrong.
The original members of the MWC are still livid over BYU’s attempt to get some MWC members back to the WAC and give BYU a sweetheart deal like Notre Dame. Wyoming would veto any deal if they have votes of CSU, Air Force, and others.
BYU would be better to look to the AAC for expansion in some capacity. The AAC is a group of schools that want in to the Big12, which better defines BYU.
You know as much about Mormons and the LDS as you do about geography.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - NoDak - 03-03-2018 02:55 PM
(03-03-2018 02:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:Which is 100 times as much as you do. Lived in SE Idaho. Mormon mainstream may be OK, but the LDS hierarchy is altogether different.(03-03-2018 12:47 PM)NoDak Wrote: BYU going to the MWC would be too much pride loss for the LDS church. It won’t happen as it is an admittance that their original decision to leave was wrong.
The original members of the MWC are still livid over BYU’s attempt to get some MWC members back to the WAC and give BYU a sweetheart deal like Notre Dame. Wyoming would veto any deal if they have votes of CSU, Air Force, and others.
BYU would be better to look to the AAC for expansion in some capacity. The AAC is a group of schools that want in to the Big12, which better defines BYU.
You know as much about Mormons and the LDS as you do about geography.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - SoCalBobcat78 - 03-03-2018 03:37 PM
A look at the budgets below show that currently the budgets in both leagues are not that much different:
Division 1 Basketball Budgets
Men’s NCAA College Basketball Budgets 2015-16 ($$$ as per the US Department of Education)
48) Gonzaga University 7,261,657 WCC
74) Brigham Young University-Provo 6,081,807 WCC
79) San Diego State University 5,734,713 MWC
86) University of Nevada-Las Vegas 5,386,263 MWC
95) Colorado State University-Fort Collins 4,264,867 MWC
98) University of San Francisco 4,205,606 WCC
103) University of New Mexico-Main Campus 3,736,179 MWC
105) University of Wyoming 3,702,699 MWC
108) University of Portland 3,570,559 WCC
109) Loyola Marymount University 3,533,468 WCC
113) Utah State University 3,363,296 MWC
115) Santa Clara University 3,345,588 WCC
118) California State University-Fresno 3,234,934 MWC
126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 WCC
147) Pepperdine University 2,561,072 WCC
148) University of the Pacific 2,558,711 WCC
151) University of San Diego 2,513,504 WCC
152) Boise State University 2,503,447 MWC
169) University of Nevada-Reno 2,288,942 MWC
207) San Jose State University 1,851,101 MWC
There was no information on Air Force available. Obviously, moving Gonzaga and BYU to the MWC gives the Mountain West the clear edge in basketball budgets. But the same could be said if SDSU and UNLV were moved to the WCC.
The NCAA tournament revenue or financial units are better in the WCC, primarily due to Gonzaga. That revenue would stay in the WCC if Gonzaga left. The MWC was a one bid league in 2016 & 2017. Nevada was a #12 seed last year and Fresno State was a #14 seed in 2016. Both were one-and-done. If Nevada wins the MWC Tournament, this will be a one bid league again.
For the Mountain West, adding Gonzaga is a big win. It should get the league a second bid each season. It should help with their next TV contract. But Gonzaga really does not need the MWC. The issues they have with revenue distribution can be addressed and corrected. The bottom half of the WCC should upgrade their non-conference schedule. I think Gonzaga will stay in the WCC if the league makes the changes that Gonzaga wants.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-03-2018 06:10 PM
(03-03-2018 03:37 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: A look at the budgets below show that currently the budgets in both leagues are not that much different:
Division 1 Basketball Budgets
Men’s NCAA College Basketball Budgets 2015-16 ($$$ as per the US Department of Education)
48) Gonzaga University 7,261,657 WCC
74) Brigham Young University-Provo 6,081,807 WCC
79) San Diego State University 5,734,713 MWC
86) University of Nevada-Las Vegas 5,386,263 MWC
95) Colorado State University-Fort Collins 4,264,867 MWC
98) University of San Francisco 4,205,606 WCC
103) University of New Mexico-Main Campus 3,736,179 MWC
105) University of Wyoming 3,702,699 MWC
108) University of Portland 3,570,559 WCC
109) Loyola Marymount University 3,533,468 WCC
113) Utah State University 3,363,296 MWC
115) Santa Clara University 3,345,588 WCC
118) California State University-Fresno 3,234,934 MWC
126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 WCC
147) Pepperdine University 2,561,072 WCC
148) University of the Pacific 2,558,711 WCC
151) University of San Diego 2,513,504 WCC
152) Boise State University 2,503,447 MWC
169) University of Nevada-Reno 2,288,942 MWC
207) San Jose State University 1,851,101 MWC
There was no information on Air Force available. Obviously, moving Gonzaga and BYU to the MWC gives the Mountain West the clear edge in basketball budgets. But the same could be said if SDSU and UNLV were moved to the WCC.
The NCAA tournament revenue or financial units are better in the WCC, primarily due to Gonzaga. That revenue would stay in the WCC if Gonzaga left. The MWC was a one bid league in 2016 & 2017. Nevada was a #12 seed last year and Fresno State was a #14 seed in 2016. Both were one-and-done. If Nevada wins the MWC Tournament, this will be a one bid league again.
For the Mountain West, adding Gonzaga is a big win. It should get the league a second bid each season. It should help with their next TV contract. But Gonzaga really does not need the MWC. The issues they have with revenue distribution can be addressed and corrected. The bottom half of the WCC should upgrade their non-conference schedule. I think Gonzaga will stay in the WCC if the league makes the changes that Gonzaga wants.
Hahahahaha.....Interesting when you don’t include each schools athletic budgets and only include their basketball budgets. Why not list the total athletic budgets of each school so we can get an overall picture? So San Francisco has a bigger budget than New Mexico and Nevada in basketball.—what does San Fran average in attendance? What does New Mexico and Nevada average in attendance? What do they pay their coach? The WCC is Gonzaga and BYU. The rest average 900 fans a game and play in high school gyms. Lets not get ridiculous...
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Nerdlinger - 03-03-2018 06:47 PM
For what it's worth, here's a table of revenue and expense figures for the MWC and WCC from 2016-17 from data gathered here.
[attachment=9362]
(There is no data for Air Force.)
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-03-2018 07:01 PM
(03-03-2018 03:37 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: A look at the budgets below show that currently the budgets in both leagues are not that much different:
Division 1 Basketball Budgets
Men’s NCAA College Basketball Budgets 2015-16 ($$$ as per the US Department of Education)
48) Gonzaga University 7,261,657 WCC
74) Brigham Young University-Provo 6,081,807 WCC
79) San Diego State University 5,734,713 MWC
86) University of Nevada-Las Vegas 5,386,263 MWC
95) Colorado State University-Fort Collins 4,264,867 MWC
98) University of San Francisco 4,205,606 WCC
103) University of New Mexico-Main Campus 3,736,179 MWC
105) University of Wyoming 3,702,699 MWC
108) University of Portland 3,570,559 WCC
109) Loyola Marymount University 3,533,468 WCC
113) Utah State University 3,363,296 MWC
115) Santa Clara University 3,345,588 WCC
118) California State University-Fresno 3,234,934 MWC
126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 WCC
147) Pepperdine University 2,561,072 WCC
148) University of the Pacific 2,558,711 WCC
151) University of San Diego 2,513,504 WCC
152) Boise State University 2,503,447 MWC
169) University of Nevada-Reno 2,288,942 MWC
207) San Jose State University 1,851,101 MWC
There was no information on Air Force available. Obviously, moving Gonzaga and BYU to the MWC gives the Mountain West the clear edge in basketball budgets. But the same could be said if SDSU and UNLV were moved to the WCC.
The NCAA tournament revenue or financial units are better in the WCC, primarily due to Gonzaga. That revenue would stay in the WCC if Gonzaga left. The MWC was a one bid league in 2016 & 2017. Nevada was a #12 seed last year and Fresno State was a #14 seed in 2016. Both were one-and-done. If Nevada wins the MWC Tournament, this will be a one bid league again.
For the Mountain West, adding Gonzaga is a big win. It should get the league a second bid each season. It should help with their next TV contract. But Gonzaga really does not need the MWC. The issues they have with revenue distribution can be addressed and corrected. The bottom half of the WCC should upgrade their non-conference schedule. I think Gonzaga will stay in the WCC if the league makes the changes that Gonzaga wants.
2016/17 Revenues:
San Diego St: 51 million to San Diego 24 mil
UNLV: 40 million to St Mary's 17 million
Fresno St: 44 million to San Fran 20 million
New Mexico: 41 million to Portland 17 million
Colorado St: 41 million to Pepperdine 21 million
And on and on....take out BYU (67 mil) and Gongaza (28 mil) and it's not close.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - SoCalBobcat78 - 03-03-2018 07:23 PM
(03-03-2018 06:10 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-03-2018 03:37 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: A look at the budgets below show that currently the budgets in both leagues are not that much different:
Division 1 Basketball Budgets
Men’s NCAA College Basketball Budgets 2015-16 ($$$ as per the US Department of Education)
48) Gonzaga University 7,261,657 WCC
74) Brigham Young University-Provo 6,081,807 WCC
79) San Diego State University 5,734,713 MWC
86) University of Nevada-Las Vegas 5,386,263 MWC
95) Colorado State University-Fort Collins 4,264,867 MWC
98) University of San Francisco 4,205,606 WCC
103) University of New Mexico-Main Campus 3,736,179 MWC
105) University of Wyoming 3,702,699 MWC
108) University of Portland 3,570,559 WCC
109) Loyola Marymount University 3,533,468 WCC
113) Utah State University 3,363,296 MWC
115) Santa Clara University 3,345,588 WCC
118) California State University-Fresno 3,234,934 MWC
126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 WCC
147) Pepperdine University 2,561,072 WCC
148) University of the Pacific 2,558,711 WCC
151) University of San Diego 2,513,504 WCC
152) Boise State University 2,503,447 MWC
169) University of Nevada-Reno 2,288,942 MWC
207) San Jose State University 1,851,101 MWC
There was no information on Air Force available. Obviously, moving Gonzaga and BYU to the MWC gives the Mountain West the clear edge in basketball budgets. But the same could be said if SDSU and UNLV were moved to the WCC.
The NCAA tournament revenue or financial units are better in the WCC, primarily due to Gonzaga. That revenue would stay in the WCC if Gonzaga left. The MWC was a one bid league in 2016 & 2017. Nevada was a #12 seed last year and Fresno State was a #14 seed in 2016. Both were one-and-done. If Nevada wins the MWC Tournament, this will be a one bid league again.
For the Mountain West, adding Gonzaga is a big win. It should get the league a second bid each season. It should help with their next TV contract. But Gonzaga really does not need the MWC. The issues they have with revenue distribution can be addressed and corrected. The bottom half of the WCC should upgrade their non-conference schedule. I think Gonzaga will stay in the WCC if the league makes the changes that Gonzaga wants.
Hahahahaha.....Interesting when you don’t include each schools athletic budgets and only include their basketball budgets. Why not list the total athletic budgets of each school so we can get an overall picture? So San Francisco has a bigger budget than New Mexico and Nevada in basketball.—what does San Fran average in attendance? What does New Mexico and Nevada average in attendance? What do they pay their coach? The WCC is Gonzaga and BYU. The rest average 900 fans a game and play in high school gyms. Lets not get ridiculous...
Have you ever watched WCC basketball? With the exception of BYU and their 19,000 seat arena, all of the WCC basketball facilities are between 3,000 and 6,000 seats. Pepperdine holds 3,100, Gonzaga holds 6,000 and Pacific holds 6,150.
Gonzaga to the MWC is not about basketball attendance. It is about basketball. Gonzaga is ranked #7 in the country in basketball, yet they are going to struggle to get a #4 seed. Jerry Palm of CBS Sports has them projected as a #4 seed...barely.
Athletic budgets mean nothing to the WCC because they don't play football. Basketball budgets are important. As the numbers show, there is no difference in the basketball budgets between the two leagues.
The attraction of another conference is the possibility of a better seeding. But they were a #1 seed last year and a #2 seed in 2015, so it can be done in the WCC. If they can gain additional revenue and improve revenue distribution within the WAC by flexing their power, then maybe the MWC is not considered. The MWC needs Gonzaga, but Gonzaga does not need the MWC.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-03-2018 08:17 PM
(03-03-2018 07:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:(03-03-2018 06:10 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-03-2018 03:37 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: A look at the budgets below show that currently the budgets in both leagues are not that much different:
Division 1 Basketball Budgets
Men’s NCAA College Basketball Budgets 2015-16 ($$$ as per the US Department of Education)
48) Gonzaga University 7,261,657 WCC
74) Brigham Young University-Provo 6,081,807 WCC
79) San Diego State University 5,734,713 MWC
86) University of Nevada-Las Vegas 5,386,263 MWC
95) Colorado State University-Fort Collins 4,264,867 MWC
98) University of San Francisco 4,205,606 WCC
103) University of New Mexico-Main Campus 3,736,179 MWC
105) University of Wyoming 3,702,699 MWC
108) University of Portland 3,570,559 WCC
109) Loyola Marymount University 3,533,468 WCC
113) Utah State University 3,363,296 MWC
115) Santa Clara University 3,345,588 WCC
118) California State University-Fresno 3,234,934 MWC
126) Saint Mary's College of California 2,956,340 WCC
147) Pepperdine University 2,561,072 WCC
148) University of the Pacific 2,558,711 WCC
151) University of San Diego 2,513,504 WCC
152) Boise State University 2,503,447 MWC
169) University of Nevada-Reno 2,288,942 MWC
207) San Jose State University 1,851,101 MWC
There was no information on Air Force available. Obviously, moving Gonzaga and BYU to the MWC gives the Mountain West the clear edge in basketball budgets. But the same could be said if SDSU and UNLV were moved to the WCC.
The NCAA tournament revenue or financial units are better in the WCC, primarily due to Gonzaga. That revenue would stay in the WCC if Gonzaga left. The MWC was a one bid league in 2016 & 2017. Nevada was a #12 seed last year and Fresno State was a #14 seed in 2016. Both were one-and-done. If Nevada wins the MWC Tournament, this will be a one bid league again.
For the Mountain West, adding Gonzaga is a big win. It should get the league a second bid each season. It should help with their next TV contract. But Gonzaga really does not need the MWC. The issues they have with revenue distribution can be addressed and corrected. The bottom half of the WCC should upgrade their non-conference schedule. I think Gonzaga will stay in the WCC if the league makes the changes that Gonzaga wants.
Hahahahaha.....Interesting when you don’t include each schools athletic budgets and only include their basketball budgets. Why not list the total athletic budgets of each school so we can get an overall picture? So San Francisco has a bigger budget than New Mexico and Nevada in basketball.—what does San Fran average in attendance? What does New Mexico and Nevada average in attendance? What do they pay their coach? The WCC is Gonzaga and BYU. The rest average 900 fans a game and play in high school gyms. Lets not get ridiculous...
Have you ever watched WCC basketball? With the exception of BYU and their 19,000 seat arena, all of the WCC basketball facilities are between 3,000 and 6,000 seats. Pepperdine holds 3,100, Gonzaga holds 6,000 and Pacific holds 6,150.
Gonzaga to the MWC is not about basketball attendance. It is about basketball. Gonzaga is ranked #7 in the country in basketball, yet they are going to struggle to get a #4 seed. Jerry Palm of CBS Sports has them projected as a #4 seed...barely.
Athletic budgets mean nothing to the WCC because they don't play football. Basketball budgets are important. As the numbers show, there is no difference in the basketball budgets between the two leagues.
The attraction of another conference is the possibility of a better seeding. But they were a #1 seed last year and a #2 seed in 2015, so it can be done in the WCC. If they can gain additional revenue and improve revenue distribution within the WAC by flexing their power, then maybe the MWC is not considered. The MWC needs Gonzaga, but Gonzaga does not need the MWC.
Yeah I’ve watched WCC basketball. Gonzaga. Gonzaga vs whoever it is they play in that league. I’m one of the fans who love the underdog story like Boise football and Gonzaga basketball. So when Gonzaga went to that first NCAA run 20 years ago I’ve been interested in them. When I’m at a bar watching the games and a Gonzaga comes on vs whoever I’m always interested. I also watched St Mary’s about 5 to 8 years ago when Booger was their point guard. Good team....too bad they don’t have any fanbase locally. When less than 1,000 fans are at your games and you’ve been ranked consistently for a decade...they will never come around.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - C2__ - 03-03-2018 10:11 PM
Saint Mary's might have more fans if they were in a small town instead of a large pro sports market.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Nerdlinger - 03-03-2018 10:20 PM
(03-03-2018 10:11 PM)_C2_ Wrote: Saint Mary's might have more fans if they were in a small town instead of a large pro sports market.
Maybe they should relocate the franchise.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Kittonhead - 03-03-2018 10:36 PM
(03-03-2018 10:11 PM)_C2_ Wrote: Saint Mary's might have more fans if they were in a small town instead of a large pro sports market.
The traditional mid major life blood.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Kittonhead - 03-03-2018 11:59 PM
Gonzaga held off 11-19 Loyola Marymount tonight in the WCC Quarters.
Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - arkstfan - 03-04-2018 02:07 AM
Gonzaga requires a few hundred bucks a year to be on their season ticket waiting list and it supposedly is about a 7 year wait to get season tickets.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - MissouriStateBears - 03-05-2018 11:34 AM
Private school budgets are inflated by high tuition costs for scholarships.