+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? (/thread-844077.html)
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - NoDak - 03-09-2018 10:42 PM
(03-09-2018 10:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-09-2018 09:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:So there’s a 12,000 seat Arena in Gonzaga’s town? How often does Gonzaga play games there these days?(03-09-2018 09:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:(03-09-2018 06:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:(03-09-2018 05:19 PM)_C2_ Wrote: Why Gonzaga only built a 6,000+ seat arena I'll never know. They should have built an 8k arena at the very least. 10k would work given how big they've become.
They have about 7,000 students, and the Spokane metro area has only about half a million people. Not many universities of that size that have their own arena (i.e., not playing in someone else's building, like a municipal or NBA arena) have more seats in their building. Dayton, Duke, Wake Forest... anyone else?
Yeah but Gonzaga was huge back when they were first emerging. They had fans everywhere, not just in Spokane. They were Spokane's NBA team. You plan for the future, just in case things aren't as rosy later on. That's why I say 8k would probably be best because 10k may indeed be way too big. 6.5K left no room to grow. Anything below 8k is small time imo.
Spokane isn't large but what else exactly is going on out there? The only other notable schools nearby are Eastern Washington, Washington State and Idaho, two of which aren't in the metro area and one of which isn't even in the state. Never mind that EWU has never had a notable basketball team. I don't know of any minor league sports out there and even the Sonics no longer play in the State of Washington.
The Spokane Arena was just built with taxpayer dollars in 1995. It seats over 12,000 and used to host Gonzaga and some Washington State games and major concerts for the region. It replaced the Spokane Coliseum which only sat 5400. Gonzaga is far from a rich school with a limited endowment ($180 mill) and it probably was not in Gonzaga’s interest to get more events from the Spokane Arena that would alienate voters. The Spokane Arena was voted down four times so it was controversial.
Wiki says Gonzaga has only played in Spokane Arena once since 2012.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-09-2018 11:27 PM
(03-09-2018 10:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:(03-09-2018 10:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-09-2018 09:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:So there’s a 12,000 seat Arena in Gonzaga’s town? How often does Gonzaga play games there these days?(03-09-2018 09:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:(03-09-2018 06:00 PM)Wedge Wrote: They have about 7,000 students, and the Spokane metro area has only about half a million people. Not many universities of that size that have their own arena (i.e., not playing in someone else's building, like a municipal or NBA arena) have more seats in their building. Dayton, Duke, Wake Forest... anyone else?
Yeah but Gonzaga was huge back when they were first emerging. They had fans everywhere, not just in Spokane. They were Spokane's NBA team. You plan for the future, just in case things aren't as rosy later on. That's why I say 8k would probably be best because 10k may indeed be way too big. 6.5K left no room to grow. Anything below 8k is small time imo.
Spokane isn't large but what else exactly is going on out there? The only other notable schools nearby are Eastern Washington, Washington State and Idaho, two of which aren't in the metro area and one of which isn't even in the state. Never mind that EWU has never had a notable basketball team. I don't know of any minor league sports out there and even the Sonics no longer play in the State of Washington.
The Spokane Arena was just built with taxpayer dollars in 1995. It seats over 12,000 and used to host Gonzaga and some Washington State games and major concerts for the region. It replaced the Spokane Coliseum which only sat 5400. Gonzaga is far from a rich school with a limited endowment ($180 mill) and it probably was not in Gonzaga’s interest to get more events from the Spokane Arena that would alienate voters. The Spokane Arena was voted down four times so it was controversial.
Wiki says Gonzaga has only played in Spokane Arena once since 2012.
Ok...I thought I remember Gonzaga playing out of conference games in Seattle after the Sonics left....I think it was vs Memphis in the CUSA 2.0 years but I could be wrong...
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - C2__ - 03-10-2018 03:05 AM
They played while the Sonics were still there.
8k is nothing and wouldn't take many events away from Spokane Arena. For a school like Gonzaga, I think 8K is perfect.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Stugray2 - 03-10-2018 03:48 AM
(03-09-2018 11:27 PM)billybobby777 Wrote: Ok...I thought I remember Gonzaga playing out of conference games in Seattle after the Sonics left....I think it was vs Memphis in the CUSA 2.0 years but I could be wrong...
http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/gonz-m-baskbl-sched.html
All games in Spokane.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Nerdlinger - 03-10-2018 07:58 AM
"Battle in Seattle" games
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-10-2018 11:23 AM
(03-10-2018 07:58 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote: "Battle in Seattle" games
Thank you!
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-10-2018 11:25 AM
(03-10-2018 03:48 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:(03-09-2018 11:27 PM)billybobby777 Wrote: Ok...I thought I remember Gonzaga playing out of conference games in Seattle after the Sonics left....I think it was vs Memphis in the CUSA 2.0 years but I could be wrong...
http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/gonz-m-baskbl-sched.html
All games in Spokane.
Except the 13 regular season games Gonzaga has played in Seattle since 2002.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Sactowndog - 03-10-2018 01:25 PM
(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote: That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.
But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.
Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.
CSU isn’t a long term problem but AF and San Jose are. If the go to 14 or 16 you can probably avoid playing them both.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - BePcr07 - 03-10-2018 01:34 PM
The West is a struggling basketball region. Things do cycle but the Western-based conferences need help. It’s tough having such a sparse region. Consolidation of strong basketball schools may be a must down the road but I have no idea what that would look like.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-10-2018 02:21 PM
(03-10-2018 01:25 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote: That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.
But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.
Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.
CSU isn’t a long term problem but AF and San Jose are. If the go to 14 or 16 you can probably avoid playing them both.
The MWC has 2 bottom feeders SJSU and Air Force. CSU is a recent tournament team. 2 out of 11 with 9 of the 11 going to the NCAA’s regularly for years. Even Air Force has a ranked team a decade ago and 2 NCAA tournaments in the 2000’s.
The WCC has 6 bottom feeders. 6 out of 9 who haven’t been to a NCAA tournament in decades. The other WCC heavyweight, St Mary’s has 9 NCAA tournaments—ever
I see see a difference, but there seems to be a lot of WCC fans on this thread.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-10-2018 02:52 PM
WCC vs MWC comparison by tournament bids last 20 years. Taking a look at it from Gonzaga’s run 20 years ago. I could go back 30 yrs but UNLV won NCAA tournament and Zags hadn’t arrived yet, so these numbers should give WCC a big boost.
Also, I could go back and count San Francisco and Wyoming’s NCAA tournament championships runs of the 40’s and 50’s.. but that’s a long time ago. 2 Decades:
Gonzaga: 20 NCAA tournament bids
BYU: 11
St Marys: 6
Pacific: 4
Pepperdine: 2
San Diego: 2
LMU: 0
Portland: 0
San Francisco: 0
San Diego St: 9
Utah St: 8
UNLV: 7
New Mexico: 6
Nevada: 6
Colorado St: 3
Fresno St: 3
Boise St: 3
Wyoming: 2
Air Force: 2
San Jose St: 0
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - SoCalBobcat78 - 03-10-2018 03:32 PM
(03-10-2018 01:34 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: The West is a struggling basketball region. Things do cycle but the Western-based conferences need help. It’s tough having such a sparse region. Consolidation of strong basketball schools may be a must down the road but I have no idea what that would look like.
No it is not. The west had four teams in the sweet sixteen last year (UCLA, Arizona, Oregon and Gonzaga) and two teams in the final four (Oregon and Gonzaga). The MWC has been down the past few seasons, but there are good basketball schools in the Mountain West that will eventually get things fixed. Gonzaga lost a couple of key players to the NBA draft.
The PAC-12 has had a scandal filled season. UCLA lost three key reserves due to shoplifting in China and three freshman to the NBA draft in 2017 (Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf and Ike Anigbogu). Arizona and USC have been dealing with the FBI investigations this season. All three schools will make the tournament, but they are not as good as hoped.
The WAC has looked good. Four of the eight schools in the WAC have won twenty or more games this season. There is plenty of talent out west.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - billybobby777 - 03-10-2018 04:07 PM
(03-10-2018 03:32 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:(03-10-2018 01:34 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: The West is a struggling basketball region. Things do cycle but the Western-based conferences need help. It’s tough having such a sparse region. Consolidation of strong basketball schools may be a must down the road but I have no idea what that would look like.
No it is not. The west had four teams in the sweet sixteen last year (UCLA, Arizona, Oregon and Gonzaga) and two teams in the final four (Oregon and Gonzaga). The MWC has been down the past few seasons, but there are good basketball schools in the Mountain West that will eventually get things fixed. Gonzaga lost a couple of key players to the NBA draft.
The PAC-12 has had a scandal filled season. UCLA lost three key reserves due to shoplifting in China and three freshman to the NBA draft in 2017 (Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf and Ike Anigbogu). Arizona and USC have been dealing with the FBI investigations this season. All three schools will make the tournament, but they are not as good as hoped.
The WAC has looked good. Four of the eight schools in the WAC have won twenty or more games this season. There is plenty of talent out west.
Yeah you have several things happening at once: PAC is down. MWC is down. Traditionally solid basketball schools like UTEP and BYU are down. New Mexico St needs a decent conference. When all these things get corrected the West will be ok..
Look as recently at the 90’s with a good PAC 10, a WAC with UTEP, Utah and BYU and a Big West with UNLV, New Mexico St and Utah St. plenty of final 4, sweet 16 teams from those 3 leagues n the 90’s and even some NCAA championships and finalists in Arizona, UCLA, UNLV and Utah.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - C2__ - 03-10-2018 04:16 PM
Some of them won 20 games because they were playing each other. Would Seattle win 20 games if they were in pretty much any other conference? Would Grand Canyon? Not in many.
That said, I agree otherwise.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Stugray2 - 03-10-2018 04:30 PM
Zeigler's reporting is really solid. It looks like Gonzaga is more or less a done deal (could still go sideways). It's a matter of finding some school into replacing San Diego State as an affiliate in Pac-12 Men's soccer (cough cough Sac State) and redoing the schedules for the fall (supposedly being done now).
BYU is a year out (2019-20), if it happens. Football is a sticking point. And I suspect those contracts BYU has can only be opted out if BYU joins a power conference, not the MWC. They have basically done schedules through 2021, including 17 games with P5 schools. Maybe a few games could move, but likely not enough. 2022 is the earliest they could realistically play league games if they throw in the towel on making a P5 conference, such as the Big 12 where everyone and their pet hamsters believes OU and a partner will join another conference for the 2024 or 2025 season. BYU has to weigh whether anything beyond a FB schedule alliance like ND with the ACC in exchange for MWC membership makes sense prior to 2025. And would the MWC settle for that.
It may come down to the contracts, both to exit games, and what their TV package would yield as to how expensive moving back to the MWC if Football has to join would be involved. The Miami-Arkansas State saga is on the cheap side for buyouts at $650K, and some of BYU's may run much higher. If they have to buyout more than a couple, it could be very expensive, and in fact far too expensive to join the MWC prior to say 2022 in football. And would that even make sense given the B12 shakeup that may come in 2023-2025 time frame?
For BYU to join the MWC is going to take one side or the other making major concessions. Either the MWC is going to have to accept a non-Football membership, and no more than some form of scheduling agreement, which would expire in 2025 should BYU join the B12 in Football only, or BYU is going to have to abandon it's P5 aspirations and back down to more or less permanent G5 status in the MWC.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - SoCalBobcat78 - 03-10-2018 05:12 PM
(03-10-2018 04:07 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-10-2018 03:32 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:(03-10-2018 01:34 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: The West is a struggling basketball region. Things do cycle but the Western-based conferences need help. It’s tough having such a sparse region. Consolidation of strong basketball schools may be a must down the road but I have no idea what that would look like.
No it is not. The west had four teams in the sweet sixteen last year (UCLA, Arizona, Oregon and Gonzaga) and two teams in the final four (Oregon and Gonzaga). The MWC has been down the past few seasons, but there are good basketball schools in the Mountain West that will eventually get things fixed. Gonzaga lost a couple of key players to the NBA draft.
The PAC-12 has had a scandal filled season. UCLA lost three key reserves due to shoplifting in China and three freshman to the NBA draft in 2017 (Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf and Ike Anigbogu). Arizona and USC have been dealing with the FBI investigations this season. All three schools will make the tournament, but they are not as good as hoped.
The WAC has looked good. Four of the eight schools in the WAC have won twenty or more games this season. There is plenty of talent out west.
Yeah you have several things happening at once: PAC is down. MWC is down. Traditionally solid basketball schools like UTEP and BYU are down. New Mexico St needs a decent conference. When all these things get corrected the West will be ok..
Look as recently at the 90’s with a good PAC 10, a WAC with UTEP, Utah and BYU and a Big West with UNLV, New Mexico St and Utah St. plenty of final 4, sweet 16 teams from those 3 leagues n the 90’s and even some NCAA championships and finalists in Arizona, UCLA, UNLV and Utah.
The Pac-12 had seven teams in the NCAA Tournament in 2016 on top of the success they had in 2017. They are down this season for the reasons that I mentioned. The MWC had five teams in the tournament in 2013. This is the reason they are having "exploratory talks" with Gonzaga. Schools like UNLV, San Diego State and New Mexico have struggled the past few years, but that could turn around next season.
UTEP has not made the tournament since 2010. They have been to the tournament three times in the last 25 years. They have been down for a quarter of a century. BYU is still a good team. Under Dave Rose, they have won 20 games or more thirteen straight years. Rose is a very good coach, but they have a talent ceiling at BYU. It is not an easy place to recruit to.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Stugray2 - 03-10-2018 07:21 PM
I'm with SoCalBobcat on UTEP.
Multiple folks have basically said the 6 schools the Thompson has talked with are: Gonzaga, Grand Canyon, New Mexico State, UTEP, Rice and ?, but also that Thompson and Holmoe (BYU) talk frequently.
Zeigler said in the podcast that the impression he got was except for GU and BYU, there was not enough juice to move the dial with any of the others. UTEP, NMSU, Rice, GCU and the mystery school (if not BYU) simply don't have any juice. The MWC plan is add Gonzaga, then see if BYU can work. As far as a 14th or the odd scheduling, it's not being talked about or thought about. It's more like a, we'll deal with it when we get there. It's simply individual merit/value. When you look at it from a time scale, it's GU this year (if details can be completed), maybe or maybe not BYU the better part of a year from now, anything else likely further out than that if at all.
Note, one option for GU is to play WAC Men's soccer for a year or two to allow the P12 to find a replacement for SDSU. Another would be for the MWC to sign Houston Baptist as an affiliate for a couple years to allow San Diego State to stay in the Pac-12 for two more years so that the Pac-12 has some time to work on an affiliate replacement. This seems to me a solvable problem.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Wedge - 03-10-2018 07:39 PM
(03-10-2018 07:21 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: Note, one option for GU is to play WAC Men's soccer for a year or two to allow the P12 to find a replacement for SDSU. Another would be for the MWC to sign Houston Baptist as an affiliate for a couple years to allow San Diego State to stay in the Pac-12 for two more years so that the Pac-12 has some time to work on an affiliate replacement. This seems to me a solvable problem.
Who are the 6 schools the MWC would have for men's soccer?
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - Stugray2 - 03-10-2018 07:44 PM
I'm with SoCalBobcat on UTEP.
Multiple folks have basically said the 6 schools the Thompson has talked with are: Gonzaga, Grand Canyon, New Mexico State, UTEP, Rice and ?, but also that Thompson and Holmoe (BYU) talk frequently.
Zeigler said in the podcast that the impression he got was except for GU and BYU, there was not enough juice to move the dial with any of the others. UTEP, NMSU, Rice, GCU and the mystery school (if not BYU) simply don't have any juice. The MWC plan is add Gonzaga, then see if BYU can work. As far as a 14th or the odd scheduling, it's not being talked about or thought about. It's more like a, we'll deal with it when we get there. It's simply individual merit/value. When you look at it from a time scale, it's GU this year (if details can be completed), maybe or maybe not BYU the better part of a year from now, anything else likely further out than that if at all.
In short, there doesn't look to be a program the MWC is likely to jump on beyond BYU in the short term. And BYU is a very long way from coming on board.
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked? - chargeradio - 03-10-2018 07:58 PM
(03-10-2018 07:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:(03-10-2018 07:21 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: Note, one option for GU is to play WAC Men's soccer for a year or two to allow the P12 to find a replacement for SDSU. Another would be for the MWC to sign Houston Baptist as an affiliate for a couple years to allow San Diego State to stay in the Pac-12 for two more years so that the Pac-12 has some time to work on an affiliate replacement. This seems to me a solvable problem.
Who are the 6 schools the MWC would have for men's soccer?
Gonzaga (full member from WCC)
New Mexico (affiliate from C-USA)
San Diego State (affiliate from Pac 12)
UNLV, San Jose State, Air Force (affiliates from WAC)
WAC would be left with Seattle, Grand Canyon, CSU Bakersfield (until 2020), Cal Baptist (transitioning from Division II), Utah Valley, UTRGV, UMKC, and affiliates Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word.