(01-18-2018 01:44 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 08:46 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 07:10 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I wonder if Mount Union(Oh), George Fox(Ore), and UW-Whitewater have ever looked into moving to D2? I think they may have reached their ceilings in D3, and really do need to go D2. Not necessarily just in football, but in basketball also.

Question for AZCats: if there were some sort of agreement that either the Southland or the SWAC (yes, the HBCU conference) would take Arkansas Tech if they moved up, would you be for or against said move?

The SWAC is a non-starter for the top reason of they do not participate in NCAA football postseason championship.

If ATU was to move up to the SLC, we would need to:
*Triple the athletic budget to compete with the top of the conference.
*Increase scholarships by 29 just for football.
*Add at least 4 sports for which there are currently no facilities available.
*Major improvements for current facilities.

ATU does not need to be D1. We grew from 3,000 to 12,000 in D2 and there is no real additional exposure being in the Southland compared to where we are now. There is no substantial revenue increase to outweigh the high costs.

The Great American Conference was formed to reduce travel costs and missed class time. This is the first time in our history that we have not been at the extreme end of the conference footprint. All of that goes away in any D1 conference. ATU does place an emphasis on academics so having a close-knit conference is important. In the GAC, we have only 2 trips of more than 300 miles with the longest one at 385 miles. The longest conference trip is 550 miles (Monticello, AR - Alva, OK).

The ultimate goal in sports is to win championships. We can do that in D2 but not a snowball's chance in Hades of that happening in D1. Since the formation of the GAC in 2011-12, we have advanced to NCAA postseason play 28 times in 8 of the 10 sports we sponsor (all but women's cross country and football). Football had 3 postseason appearances while in the Gulf South Conference. Cross Country has competed in the regionals but I don't count it because there is no formal selection process similar to all other sports and every school runs in that meet to qualify for the national meet. All of this brings excitement and energy to campus that would not happen if we were D1.

Our biggest accomplishments in D2 have been:
*1998-99 Women's Basketball Runner-up, losing to North Dakota 80-63 in the championship game.
*2017 Men's Golf 3rd place, losing to Lynn in the semifinal match by 1 stroke.
*Hosting NCAA postseason events 9 times, which are additional opportunities that we have been able to give back to the community.

So, this has been a very long-winded way to say "NO". I really don't see anything that would benefit Arkansas Tech in academics or athletics in a very significant manner that is any different than what we have experienced since moving to D2 in 1995-96. D2 gives us the opportunity to keep the balance of strong academic achievements and a highly competitive athletic program.

I don't mind your "long-winded no." In fact, I rather appreciate it. I can see what you are saying in one way in that you really can't see much of a difference between FCS & D2; but there is at least two key differences for sure: a chance to parparticipate in the NCAA March Madness Tournament, a chance at the NIT Tournament, and a chance to go to the College World Series.

That's all nice but we would only make those tourneys if we win the conference title to get the auto-bid which would not be an annual thing. Yes, it would be national exposure but it would be a fleeting moment; who really remembers all the one-and-dones. Our men's basketball team has been in the NCAA tourney 5 of last 6 years and the women's 4 of 6; baseball only once. I recognize that there is a difference from D2 to D1-AA but what are the actual tangible benefits to moving up. To me it's primarily the economics; what is the real rate of return on that $12M increase to the budget and all the various start-up costs. And, do we have a legitimate fair access to a national title; in D1 the odds are stacked heavily against you in all sports if you are not a P5.

(01-18-2018 12:41 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:44 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 08:46 PM)AZcats Wrote:  The SWAC is a non-starter for the top reason of they do not participate in NCAA football postseason championship.

If ATU was to move up to the SLC, we would need to:
*Triple the athletic budget to compete with the top of the conference.
*Increase scholarships by 29 just for football.
*Add at least 4 sports for which there are currently no facilities available.
*Major improvements for current facilities.

ATU does not need to be D1. We grew from 3,000 to 12,000 in D2 and there is no real additional exposure being in the Southland compared to where we are now. There is no substantial revenue increase to outweigh the high costs.

The Great American Conference was formed to reduce travel costs and missed class time. This is the first time in our history that we have not been at the extreme end of the conference footprint. All of that goes away in any D1 conference. ATU does place an emphasis on academics so having a close-knit conference is important. In the GAC, we have only 2 trips of more than 300 miles with the longest one at 385 miles. The longest conference trip is 550 miles (Monticello, AR - Alva, OK).

The ultimate goal in sports is to win championships. We can do that in D2 but not a snowball's chance in Hades of that happening in D1. Since the formation of the GAC in 2011-12, we have advanced to NCAA postseason play 28 times in 8 of the 10 sports we sponsor (all but women's cross country and football). Football had 3 postseason appearances while in the Gulf South Conference. Cross Country has competed in the regionals but I don't count it because there is no formal selection process similar to all other sports and every school runs in that meet to qualify for the national meet. All of this brings excitement and energy to campus that would not happen if we were D1.

Our biggest accomplishments in D2 have been:
*1998-99 Women's Basketball Runner-up, losing to North Dakota 80-63 in the championship game.
*2017 Men's Golf 3rd place, losing to Lynn in the semifinal match by 1 stroke.
*Hosting NCAA postseason events 9 times, which are additional opportunities that we have been able to give back to the community.

So, this has been a very long-winded way to say "NO". I really don't see anything that would benefit Arkansas Tech in academics or athletics in a very significant manner that is any different than what we have experienced since moving to D2 in 1995-96. D2 gives us the opportunity to keep the balance of strong academic achievements and a highly competitive athletic program.

I don't mind your "long-winded no." In fact, I rather appreciate it. I can see what you are saying in one way in that you really can't see much of a difference between FCS & D2; but there is at least two key differences for sure: a chance to parparticipate in the NCAA March Madness Tournament, a chance at the NIT Tournament, and a chance to go to the College World Series.

That's all nice but we would only make those tourneys if we win the conference title to get the auto-bid which would not be an annual thing. Yes, it would be national exposure but it would be a fleeting moment; who really remembers all the one-and-dones. Our men's basketball team has been in the NCAA tourney 5 of last 6 years and the women's 4 of 6; baseball only once. I recognize that there is a difference from D2 to D1-AA but what are the actual tangible benefits to moving up. To me it's primarily the economics; what is the real rate of return on that $12M increase to the budget and all the various start-up costs. And, do we have a legitimate fair access to a national title; in D1 the odds are stacked heavily against you in all sports if you are not a P5.

Well said. Not every school needs to be D-I.

I guess things in Arkansas must be a lot different than they are here in Alabama. Troy University used to be D2 back in the day, until Troy’s chancellor wisely realized no one really cared about D2 athletics in this state and it irritated him too because Troy had some really good teams. But I remember Chancellor Hawkins announcing the move to D1: Troy was leaving the GSC for the Southland Football Conference and joined the TransAmerica Athletic Conference (the infamous TAAC, now the A-Sun Conference) for everything else. Troy worked on its football stadium, baseball stadium, and its basketball arena. Troy hated the setup they had in I-AA even though there was a good rivalry with McNeese, everyone still kinda overlooked the Trojans. When Troy was done with its facility upgrades and name change, Troy sought out the SunBelt for membership. Then , people finally started paying attention to the Trojans. I do miss that old rivalry with McNeese though.

(01-19-2018 04:14 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I guess things in Arkansas must be a lot different than they are here in Alabama. Troy University used to be D2 back in the day, until Troy’s chancellor wisely realized no one really cared about D2 athletics in this state and it irritated him too because Troy had some really good teams. But I remember Chancellor Hawkins announcing the move to D1: Troy was leaving the GSC for the Southland Football Conference and joined the TransAmerica Athletic Conference (the infamous TAAC, now the A-Sun Conference) for everything else. Troy worked on its football stadium, baseball stadium, and its basketball arena. Troy hated the setup they had in I-AA even though there was a good rivalry with McNeese, everyone still kinda overlooked the Trojans. When Troy was done with its facility upgrades and name change, Troy sought out the SunBelt for membership. Then , people finally started paying attention to the Trojans. I do miss that old rivalry with McNeese though.

There's a few factors that explain the feelings about athletics on campus. Arkies have had a century of mind control by the pigs. ATU is within the intersection of the Little Rock and Fayetteville / Fort Smith media markets. We don't get any attention to speak of from state-wide media now, and even when we won our 2 national titles there was none, which will not change with a move up. Arkansas Tech does have the small school mindset. Our enrollment was less than 3,500 for its first 90 years of existence, the enrollment explosion has been only within the last 20 years. The current breakdown is - 8,800 main campus undergrads, 1,000 graduate, and 2,000 Ozark campus. We also watched the transition of our former rival 45 miles down the road. It had some scandal and some of their people are still not happy. One of the main points that was made for the move was more exposure on espn. I live in Colorado and I've seen that school on tv 3 or 4 times (espn3 not included) and I've seen them on the bottomline scroll less than that. In the 2017 football season their average attendance was only 2,300 more than ours (6,211) and they were the #4 seed in the playoffs. Overall, we really do like being D2 and I wish we would have been in a position to have joined earlier.

(01-17-2018 10:36 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Some movement in the D2 ranks in my area of the world:

GLVC losing Wisconsin-Parkside to GLIAC. Rumored to be adding Benedictine and Southwest Baptist.
MIAA rumored to be losing Southwest Baptist to GLVC, Newman is word on the street to be added to the MIAA.

I think UT-Tyler is coming in to replace Tarleton St., any news on if they'll be approved by the SLC?

(01-20-2018 07:17 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 10:36 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Some movement in the D2 ranks in my area of the world:

GLVC losing Wisconsin-Parkside to GLIAC. Rumored to be adding Benedictine and Southwest Baptist.
MIAA rumored to be losing Southwest Baptist to GLVC, Newman is word on the street to be added to the MIAA.

I think UT-Tyler is coming in to replace Tarleton St., any news on if they'll be approved by the SLC?

Tarleton State is still waiting. There was no invitation after the SLC December meetings; when are the spring meetings. Good thread about this on the d2football board.

Pretty major news that I am surprised has not been mentioned. The NCAA voted to allow Mexican schools into Division II.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...ach-mexico

I can think of two that might make the jump. University of Monterrey who applied when Simon Frasier was accepted and CETYS in Mexicali
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018...g-be-first

I guess there was some interest from a few Mexican Universities for this to happen. Wonder which conference is interested? Definitely not the Lone Star.

(01-22-2018 07:43 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I guess there was some interest from a few Mexican Universities for this to happen. Wonder which conference is interested? Definitely not the Lone Star.

It sounds like the CCAA is making a big push for CETYS.

In regards to Mt Union DII is a major no go because the OAC has schools with much better academic reputations. Sure it's not the North Coast but the G-Mac has some schools on the verge of closing.

(01-22-2018 07:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In regards to Mt Union DII is a major no go because the OAC has schools with much better academic reputations. Sure it's not the North Coast but the G-Mac has some schools on the verge of closing.

Which schools are on the verge of closing? Do you have evidence or just opinion?

(01-22-2018 11:51 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 07:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In regards to Mt Union DII is a major no go because the OAC has schools with much better academic reputations. Sure it's not the North Coast but the G-Mac has some schools on the verge of closing.

Which schools are on the verge of closing? Do you have evidence or just opinion?

I worked for Lake Erie College for a while and they are a dumpster fire plagued with accreditation problems. The WV schools in the conference have similarly awful enrollments

(01-23-2018 10:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 11:51 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 07:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In regards to Mt Union DII is a major no go because the OAC has schools with much better academic reputations. Sure it's not the North Coast but the G-Mac has some schools on the verge of closing.

Which schools are on the verge of closing? Do you have evidence or just opinion?

I worked for Lake Erie College for a while and they are a dumpster fire plagued with accreditation problems. The WV schools in the conference have similarly awful enrollments

Thanks. I look at the enrollment numbers here:
http://greatmidwestsports.com/sports/201...25723.aspx
and it doesn't look that bad. There are lots of NAIA schools at those enrollment levels and they are not "dumpster fires" but are in fact pretty well managed. So there's nothing inherently wrong with the enrollment numbers. But then again, the NAIA schools aren't blowing wads of cash on NCAA membership.

Newman University will join the MIAA as an associate member for all 14 of their NCAA sports in 2019. They could become a full member if the MIAA decides to remove the requirement that full members must sponsor football.

http://ksn.com/2018/02/08/newman-athleti...2019-2020/

(01-23-2018 11:21 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 10:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 11:51 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 07:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  In regards to Mt Union DII is a major no go because the OAC has schools with much better academic reputations. Sure it's not the North Coast but the G-Mac has some schools on the verge of closing.

Which schools are on the verge of closing? Do you have evidence or just opinion?

I worked for Lake Erie College for a while and they are a dumpster fire plagued with accreditation problems. The WV schools in the conference have similarly awful enrollments

Thanks. I look at the enrollment numbers here:
http://greatmidwestsports.com/sports/201...25723.aspx
and it doesn't look that bad. There are lots of NAIA schools at those enrollment levels and they are not "dumpster fires" but are in fact pretty well managed. So there's nothing inherently wrong with the enrollment numbers. But then again, the NAIA schools aren't blowing wads of cash on NCAA membership.

I live in West Virginia...

Alderson-Broadus College is in real financial trouble... They sunk A LOT of money into restarting FB; to the point of discontinuing several majors. I believe their accreditation status is on "Probation" due to finances.

Davis and Elkins is small, but stable.

Wheeling Jesuit is being bank-rolled by the local RC Diocese. They're well-off.

(02-10-2018 01:08 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  

(02-10-2018 06:03 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 11:21 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 10:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 11:51 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Which schools are on the verge of closing? Do you have evidence or just opinion?

I worked for Lake Erie College for a while and they are a dumpster fire plagued with accreditation problems. The WV schools in the conference have similarly awful enrollments

Thanks. I look at the enrollment numbers here:
http://greatmidwestsports.com/sports/201...25723.aspx
and it doesn't look that bad. There are lots of NAIA schools at those enrollment levels and they are not "dumpster fires" but are in fact pretty well managed. So there's nothing inherently wrong with the enrollment numbers. But then again, the NAIA schools aren't blowing wads of cash on NCAA membership.

I live in West Virginia...

Alderson-Broadus College is in real financial trouble... They sunk A LOT of money into restarting FB; to the point of discontinuing several majors. I believe their accreditation status is on "Probation" due to finances.

Davis and Elkins is small, but stable.

Wheeling Jesuit is being bank-rolled by the local RC Diocese. They're well-off.

According to Forbes, Alderson Broaddus College had the worse financial grade, Wheeling Jesuit was right there as well. Davis & Elkins received a B.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/20...5db9e64a7e

Thanks for this, never seen it before. The link you provided was for 2016 though. Here's the 2017 version:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/20...a3e3ca72f3

AB and Wheeling Jesuit have both improved. In fact, there aren't any "F"s left on the chart.

University of St Thomas - Houston (NAIA) has been accepted into the D3 exploratory period.

D2 Franklin Pierce is elevating their sprint football team to the D2 level, cutting men's and women's bowling and women's swimming, and upping scholarships for their remaining women's sports.

http://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local...55ae5.html

Consultant hired at my wife's alma mater, Frostburg State (MD) to examine potential options including NCAA Division II.

==

According to Frostburg State University Athletic Director Troy Dell, finding replacements for Wesley College and Marymount University “will not be a quick fix.” Following news of the two schools’ movement to a new league, a committee has been looking for nine months to fill their positions. To fill in the lack of the two teams, most Frostburg State University teams are adding two extra non-conference match-ups to still play the same amount of games.

Recently, on Monday, March 5, President Ronald Nowaczyk sent an email to the Frostburg campus updating students and faculty on the current state of the athletic conference affiliation. Since the email announcement, the notion that Frostburg would potentially compete in the NCAA Division II has created significant buzz among students, faculty, and staff.

Nowaczyk noted that Frostburg State is committed to maintaining the stability of CAC but will explore further options to protect the University’s 21 varsity sports. He also mentioned that Frostburg decided to utilize the services of Strategic Edge Athletic Consultants who would oversee “an assessment of the athletic program’s readiness to compete” at the Division II level.

Full Story

St. Thomas(TX) joining the AMC? Is UT-Tyler going to the LSC? Which conference in D-II would take Frostburg St.?