(02-26-2018 07:43 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 06:12 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 04:32 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 09:05 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  That is the world we live in now......

Verucca Salk had it - I want it now, I want it all, and I want it handed to me, I don't want to work for it.


It is much easier to tell everyone it was stolen from you rather putting in the work and earning it.

It is not ESPN that is keeping them down, it is their inability to earn an invitation to a P5 conference. In this regard the deck is stacked against them. A quick review of the profile of schools that are in P5 conferences demonstrates why.

First, aside from Texas, there is no state with more than two public universities that are members of P5 conferences. These are primarily the state flagship university and, if it is a different school, the Land Grant university for the state. This is not a coincidence. Such schools have large statewide alumni bases and community contacts. In addition, these schools have generated many of the business leaders within their states, creating a strong pool of potential donors and season ticket holders. In states where the Land Grant and Flagship are the same (California, Florida, and Pennsylvania for example) the second highest ranked public research university can grab the second slot (UCLA, Florida State, Pittsburgh, for example). Only in hugely populated, football crazy Texas is there a third P5 public university - Texas Tech.

The private universities are all academically excellent - all are at a minimum top 100 in the USNWR rankings. Many fill a niche that is not fully covered by the public universities in their states - Syracuse and BC are in states without a public P5 school, Vandy and Northwestern are in large cities in states with only one public P5 school. Notre Dame is a national Catholic university.

Finally, all P5 universities have been playing at a high national level for a very long time. Syracuse committed to competing in athletics at the highest level when it decided to build Archbold Stadium in 1905 and has never wavered in its commitment.

ECU is not a flagship and is not land grant university. It is located in a state that has separate flagship and land grant schools. In addition, there are two other P5 schools in the state, which further dilutes the potential fanbase and recruiting pool. It has been competing at the Division 1 level only since 1966, which may seem like a long time, but it is less than half of almost every school in P5 conferences. Finally, its academics are not exceptional, currently being ranked outside the top 200 by USNWR. Earning a P5 invite with a Texas Tech type "exception" therefore seems very unlikely.

Like many schools, there is actually very little that ECU can do to change the status quo. It should continue to focus on improving is academics and research - try to reach the top 100 in USNWR and achieve Doctoral Universities: Highest Research Activity classification from Carnegie. Winning is also important. TCU pretty much knocked the P5 door down by earning multiple BCS bids. However, they also had strong academics (USNWR #76), a long history of playing at the highest level (1938 AP National Champions), and a large local market.

Having said this, the American Conference offers a great opportunity to compete. It gives ECU access to the Texas and Florida recruiting markets. ECU appears to have a strong fanbase capable of supporting a successful ECU program. The American is the strongest non-P5 conference, and its champion should be able to earn an NY6 bid every other year on average. That bid could be ECU's on a consistent basis if it uses its already existing resources effectively.

Ok, let’s take my team out of it and use your argument. Explain why THESE schools aren’t in the P5? This is based on your argument on flagships, and no more than 2 schools per state. These are only the FBS schools who want access; no FCS schools
UCONN: flagship of their state. 0 P5 in Connecticut
UMASS: Flagship. Only 1 P5 in Massachusetts
Buffalo: Flagship. Only 1 P5 in New York
New Mexico: Flagship. 0 P5 in New Mexico
Wyoming: Flagship. O P5 in Wyoming
Nevada: Flagship. 0 P5 in Nevada
Hawaii: Flagship. 0 P5 in Hawaii
Cincinnati: 2nd major university in Ohio. 1 P5 in Ohio.
Boise St: At least the 2nd major university in Idaho. 0 P5 in Idaho
Colorado St: At least the 2nd major university in Colorado. 1 P5 in Colorado
UNLV: At least the 2nd major university in Nevada. 0 P5 in Nevada.
Arkansas St: The 2nd major university in Arkansas. 1 P5 in Arkansas
New Mexico St: the 2nd major university in NM. 0 P5 in New Mexico

Orangefan didn't say that every public school that met his criteria were in the P5, only that those were criteria that public school P5 met.

The schools listed above have obvious flaws, the big one being that, with the possible exception of UConn, none has the market value to be worth $35m a year for a P5 conference.

You need to bring market value to the table, and these schools do not.

Every school on that list brings market value except 4 or 5. And one of them is Boise St. Small market. Big tv rankings. Look at their tv numbers the past decade. Some could say not anymore....but I looked at some numbers from last year when They played a game against an awful New Mexico and drew a million viewers. Arkansas St could be another one that surprises...if they were given a chance. If a P5 team visits them I’m willing to bet the tv ratings would be scary....good. That’s why it’ll never happen.

You can't just bring a little market value, you have to bring a LOT. Media contracts for P5 these days are $25m, so if the existing schools aren't going to take a pay cut, a new school has to be worth at least $25m a year to a network.

None of those schools is. That's why the Big 12 didn't expand last year: Their network "partners" told them none of the prospective schools was worth $25m a year to them, but since the Big 12 had a clause that forced the networks to pay more if they did expand anyway, the networks paid the Big 12 not to expand.