I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

Proof there is evolution: UT fans vs. Memphis fans

Clearly one is more evolved than the other. Case closed, where's my Nobel Prize?

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

Who says it has stopped? Evolution is a long, long, long process. Millions of years, not thousands. Man as we know him to be now has only been around for 30,000 years.

Stick around for 2 million more years, and you'll see some changes.

Derby Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

Who says it has stopped? Evolution is a long, long, long process. Millions of years, not thousands. Man as we know him to be now has only been around for 30,000 years.

Stick around for 2 million more years, and you'll see some changes.

But we aren't still evolving from apes. Sure we have similarities but if we evolved from them, why is that not still going on? I guess evolution is a well thought out theory but it seems too far out there to be possible.

uofmcamaro Wrote:

Derby Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

Who says it has stopped? Evolution is a long, long, long process. Millions of years, not thousands. Man as we know him to be now has only been around for 30,000 years.

Stick around for 2 million more years, and you'll see some changes.

But we aren't still evolving from apes. Sure we have similarities but if we evolved from them, why is that not still going on? I guess evolution is a well thought out theory but it seems too far out there to be possible.

Are you trying to honestly say that you don't see the similarities in Phil Fulmer and an orangoutang?

dino16 Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:

Derby Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

Who says it has stopped? Evolution is a long, long, long process. Millions of years, not thousands. Man as we know him to be now has only been around for 30,000 years.

Stick around for 2 million more years, and you'll see some changes.

But we aren't still evolving from apes. Sure we have similarities but if we evolved from them, why is that not still going on? I guess evolution is a well thought out theory but it seems too far out there to be possible.

Are you trying to honestly say that you don't see the similarities in Phil Fulmer and an orangoutang?

lmfao I stand corrected. I am a believer now. lmfao

uofmcamaro Wrote:I just have one question that I haven't heard ever answered. If we evolved from apes, why isn't it still happening? Evolution start when it wants and stop also when it wants. Makes no sense at all.

This is actually the classic question that people like to ask.

The answer is that humans are still evolving, and apes are still evolving, as are dogs, mice, bacteria, etc etc. However, humans aren't the endpoint of evolution for all species. Man and ape had a common ancestor millions of years ago, but then their paths diverged. Homo saipens started evolving to walk upright, have less fur, greater mental capacity and the current result is humans. Chimpanzees have continued to develop opposable thumbs and toes to make it easier to live in trees. They won't ever evolve into humans, they'll just evolve into better chimps.

Think about it this way (this is not the greatest example, btw)
Lions and cheetahs are both felines, so if you go far enough back you will find a common ancestor. But cheetahs don't evolve into lions, and vice versa. They've each come up with a unique survival/hunting/social strategy for survival, so evolution will keep on refining these traits they already have, and not try to turn cheetahs into lions

So this is why these random humans don't pop up in the jungles of africa after having been born from chimps.

There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

Fairy tales? Hasn't your almighty scientific people basically come out and said that evidence proves that the earth was indeed at one time flooded? For some reason I recall hearing that or reading that. As for animals in all sorts of places and us not understanding, there is this thing called faith. I can't give you all the answers to everything, but I believe that when God claims it happened, it happened. I don't need anything else. Am I still curious? Sure. Will I ever know all the answers? Probably not. This comes down to all that christianity is shaped by. Without faith, there would be no christians.

uofmcamaro Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

Fairy tales? Hasn't your almighty scientific people basically come out and said that evidence proves that the earth was indeed at one time flooded? For some reason I recall hearing that or reading that. As for animals in all sorts of places and us not understanding, there is this thing called faith. I can't give you all the answers to everything, but I believe that when God claims it happened, it happened. I don't need anything else. Am I still curious? Sure. Will I ever know all the answers? Probably not. This comes down to all that christianity is shaped by. Without faith, there would be no christians.

Like My Mom says, heaven will be so wonderful cause we will finally know as he knows and understand,
God is soverign and man as a mortal can't know or understand all his ways. We now see by faith, but then we will know face to face.
Its enought for me. I can't imagine living and experiencing the things of this world without faith in him and of better things to come.

uofmcamaro Wrote:Fairy tales? Hasn't your almighty scientific people basically come out and said that evidence proves that the earth was indeed at one time flooded? For some reason I recall hearing that or reading that. As for animals in all sorts of places and us not understanding, there is this thing called faith. I can't give you all the answers to everything, but I believe that when God claims it happened, it happened. I don't need anything else. Am I still curious? Sure. Will I ever know all the answers? Probably not. This comes down to all that christianity is shaped by. Without faith, there would be no christians.

What does "God claims it happened" mean? God didn't write the Bible. The Bible was written by "men inspired by God?"

One of the definitions of faith, and the definition I like the most, is that faith is "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." There is no logical proof or material evidence of God. Faith in itself was created by man as a way to get other men to buy into something that wasn't logical.

If any person of faith can ever convince me that there is a supreme being that is merciful & loving, yet so punitive and self-absorbed that he would forgive a rapist & murderer and allow them into "heaven", yet banish someone like Ghandi to hell because he didn't believe in him.

If there is a God, I can only imagine he is like a parent. Parents lay out rules and reward/punish their children in an effort to shape their behavior. Why do we as parents to this? Because as people get older, we (most of us) become more wise through our experiences. We attempt to pass on what we've learned to our children so that they can avoid the pitfalls we encountered and enjoy the successes we had. We might have some influence, but evidently not too much, otherwise we would have evolved into perfect people who only make the right decisions, experience no pain, etc. So, we don't punish our kids because they won't believe us. We punish them because in our minds we want to prevent them from hurting/killing themselves, because we love them (because we're selfish- love in itself is a selfish thing). Yet when it's all said and done, we never stop loving our kids or banish them to hell because they chose not to believe everything we said and do the things we advised. We simply keep loving them and at some point we're thankful they made it (or we grieve if they didn't). All we really want as parents is to die before our children do. And we work feverishly throughout our lives to make that happen. If there's a God, that's how I would hope and expect him to feel. There may very well be a supreme being that created everything, but I will never believe there is a heaven & hell for those saved and those damned. That's just silly. More likely, God is like a parent, and he simply helped shaped society's values so that men wouldn't hurt or kill each other, because we're all God's children and he grieves like a parent who has lost a child whenever a man dies. All he really wants for all of us to live prosperously & happily, and not to cause harm to one another. Just like a parent to his children. If man hadn't created all the various lies about God and convinced other men to subscribe to their beliefs, we'd all be better off. As it is, we just get further from that ideal.

Thought some people would find this interesting.
The Big Religion Chart, a comparison of world religions beliefs and practices.

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

I am merely questioning the Noah's Ark story in the Old Testament. It is hard to believe that Noah found the American Bison, Kangaroos and Llamas in the Middle East, put them in this large boat and somehow these animals found their way to America and Australia without leaving any trace that they ever inhabited the Middle East or anywhere between there and their natural habitat. Exactly, how did they get from modern day Turkey to those locations and over what period of time? If all animals originated from the Ark...how come there are any animals at all in South America? How did they traverse from Turkey to there in a few thousand years? Was Noah before or after dinasours? If before, how did he get all the dinosaurs on the Ark? It goes on and on and makes little logical sense. On the other hand, the New Testament is the story of the life of Jesus Christ and is much more factual and believable.

TigerTwice Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:Fairy tales? Hasn't your almighty scientific people basically come out and said that evidence proves that the earth was indeed at one time flooded? For some reason I recall hearing that or reading that. As for animals in all sorts of places and us not understanding, there is this thing called faith. I can't give you all the answers to everything, but I believe that when God claims it happened, it happened. I don't need anything else. Am I still curious? Sure. Will I ever know all the answers? Probably not. This comes down to all that christianity is shaped by. Without faith, there would be no christians.

What does "God claims it happened" mean? God didn't write the Bible. The Bible was written by "men inspired by God?"

One of the definitions of faith, and the definition I like the most, is that faith is "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." There is no logical proof or material evidence of God. Faith in itself was created by man as a way to get other men to buy into something that wasn't logical.

If any person of faith can ever convince me that there is a supreme being that is merciful & loving, yet so punitive and self-absorbed that he would forgive a rapist & murderer and allow them into "heaven", yet banish someone like Ghandi to hell because he didn't believe in him.

If there is a God, I can only imagine he is like a parent. Parents lay out rules and reward/punish their children in an effort to shape their behavior. Why do we as parents to this? Because as people get older, we (most of us) become more wise through our experiences. We attempt to pass on what we've learned to our children so that they can avoid the pitfalls we encountered and enjoy the successes we had. We might have some influence, but evidently not too much, otherwise we would have evolved into perfect people who only make the right decisions, experience no pain, etc. So, we don't punish our kids because they won't believe us. We punish them because in our minds we want to prevent them from hurting/killing themselves, because we love them (because we're selfish- love in itself is a selfish thing). Yet when it's all said and done, we never stop loving our kids or banish them to hell because they chose not to believe everything we said and do the things we advised. We simply keep loving them and at some point we're thankful they made it (or we grieve if they didn't). All we really want as parents is to die before our children do. And we work feverishly throughout our lives to make that happen. If there's a God, that's how I would hope and expect him to feel. There may very well be a supreme being that created everything, but I will never believe there is a heaven & hell for those saved and those damned. That's just silly. More likely, God is like a parent, and he simply helped shaped society's values so that men wouldn't hurt or kill each other, because we're all God's children and he grieves like a parent who has lost a child whenever a man dies. All he really wants for all of us to live prosperously & happily, and not to cause harm to one another. Just like a parent to his children. If man hadn't created all the various lies about God and convinced other men to subscribe to their beliefs, we'd all be better off. As it is, we just get further from that ideal.

Here is how I have heard it explained, and it seems logical to me. This may not speak to all your concerns or you or others may not find it helpful, but I throw it out there for whatever it may be worth. Someone said to me that you have to look at sin like a disease -- a "fatal" disease in the sense that it will lead to eternal death. In order to be "cured" of the disease, you have to take the right medicine. Christians believe in the historicity of the resurrection as proof of Jesus' claim that he is the cure. Only people who are cured get eternal life (ie, Heaven). Those who do not take the cure go elsewhere. The cure is available for all, and if anyone chooses to take it, they get eternal life. Although Ghandi may have lived a "good" life, he, like everyone else, still had the disease of sin, unless he took the cure. Just like sick people on Earth with a fatal disease who do not take their medicine inevitably face the consequences of their choice, Ghandi had to face the inevitable consequences of his failure to take the cure (assuming he did not take it). So, being "good" or "bad" is not the issue. No matter how good of a life we live, we are all diseased at heart (ie, sinful), unless we accept the cure.
And, with respect to it being unfair that God would send people to damnation for the way they believe, keep in mind that He did take the trouble to come into this world in human form to provide a means of reconciliation with Him (death and resurrection of Christ) and to personally tell us how to achieve that reconciliation -- not by good works but by trust in the completed work of Christ. A God that would do all this, to me, seems very caring and fair. Anyway, that is the way I look at it. Maybe it helps, maybe not.

bman Wrote:

TigerTwice Wrote:

uofmcamaro Wrote:Fairy tales? Hasn't your almighty scientific people basically come out and said that evidence proves that the earth was indeed at one time flooded? For some reason I recall hearing that or reading that. As for animals in all sorts of places and us not understanding, there is this thing called faith. I can't give you all the answers to everything, but I believe that when God claims it happened, it happened. I don't need anything else. Am I still curious? Sure. Will I ever know all the answers? Probably not. This comes down to all that christianity is shaped by. Without faith, there would be no christians.

What does "God claims it happened" mean? God didn't write the Bible. The Bible was written by "men inspired by God?"

One of the definitions of faith, and the definition I like the most, is that faith is "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." There is no logical proof or material evidence of God. Faith in itself was created by man as a way to get other men to buy into something that wasn't logical.

If any person of faith can ever convince me that there is a supreme being that is merciful & loving, yet so punitive and self-absorbed that he would forgive a rapist & murderer and allow them into "heaven", yet banish someone like Ghandi to hell because he didn't believe in him.

If there is a God, I can only imagine he is like a parent. Parents lay out rules and reward/punish their children in an effort to shape their behavior. Why do we as parents to this? Because as people get older, we (most of us) become more wise through our experiences. We attempt to pass on what we've learned to our children so that they can avoid the pitfalls we encountered and enjoy the successes we had. We might have some influence, but evidently not too much, otherwise we would have evolved into perfect people who only make the right decisions, experience no pain, etc. So, we don't punish our kids because they won't believe us. We punish them because in our minds we want to prevent them from hurting/killing themselves, because we love them (because we're selfish- love in itself is a selfish thing). Yet when it's all said and done, we never stop loving our kids or banish them to hell because they chose not to believe everything we said and do the things we advised. We simply keep loving them and at some point we're thankful they made it (or we grieve if they didn't). All we really want as parents is to die before our children do. And we work feverishly throughout our lives to make that happen. If there's a God, that's how I would hope and expect him to feel. There may very well be a supreme being that created everything, but I will never believe there is a heaven & hell for those saved and those damned. That's just silly. More likely, God is like a parent, and he simply helped shaped society's values so that men wouldn't hurt or kill each other, because we're all God's children and he grieves like a parent who has lost a child whenever a man dies. All he really wants for all of us to live prosperously & happily, and not to cause harm to one another. Just like a parent to his children. If man hadn't created all the various lies about God and convinced other men to subscribe to their beliefs, we'd all be better off. As it is, we just get further from that ideal.

Here is how I have heard it explained, and it seems logical to me. This may not speak to all your concerns or you or others may not find it helpful, but I throw it out there for whatever it may be worth. Someone said to me that you have to look at sin like a disease -- a "fatal" disease in the sense that it will lead to eternal death. In order to be "cured" of the disease, you have to take the right medicine. Christians believe in the historicity of the resurrection as proof of Jesus' claim that he is the cure. Only people who are cured get eternal life (ie, Heaven). Those who do not take the cure go elsewhere. The cure is available for all, and if anyone chooses to take it, they get eternal life. Although Ghandi may have lived a "good" life, he, like everyone else, still had the disease of sin, unless he took the cure. Just like sick people on Earth with a fatal disease who do not take their medicine inevitably face the consequences of their choice, Ghandi had to face the inevitable consequences of his failure to take the cure (assuming he did not take it). So, being "good" or "bad" is not the issue. No matter how good of a life we live, we are all diseased at heart (ie, sinful), unless we accept the cure.
And, with respect to it being unfair that God would send people to damnation for the way they believe, keep in mind that He did take the trouble to come into this world in human form to provide a means of reconciliation with Him (death and resurrection of Christ) and to personally tell us how to achieve that reconciliation -- not by good works but by trust in the completed work of Christ. A God that would do all this, to me, seems very caring and fair. Anyway, that is the way I look at it. Maybe it helps, maybe not.

Yes, but Ghandi was not of the belief that he had the disease of sin. Ghandi believed in a totally different religion. So does the same concept still apply to him? Which would then pose the question, who is right? Because what if Ghandi and his religion were right...Christians would have a rude awakening when they die. Which poses another question...what if no religion on earth is right...what if, when we die, we just decompose and that's it?

As far as the sin issue is concerned and y'all thinking "God is a bad guy for letting good people go to hell" issue. The only thing God asks of us is that we trust, believe and live in him. You can be a good person your whole life and not know God and that is enough to seperate you from him. God also allows us to make our own decisions. All people will be judged. That is biblical. We are all going to be judged for our actions here on earth. I believe that a lot of people who claim to be christians aren't. I am not saying that actions get you into heaven, but they show where your heart is. I have friends at church who don't live a christian life very much and I wonder about their relationship with God. Of course God wants you to be a good person, but he is a just God and out of all the commandments he gave us, the one that matters to him is to know him and make him known. There is my best explanation to the Ghandi issue. God is a just God and will allow us to make decisions, but out of our decisions, we reap what we sow. Whatever we do we will face what happens from it. I guess I am done now.

Quote:Which poses another question...what if no religion on earth is right...what if, when we die, we just decompose and that's it?

I was staying out of this, but could not help but notice that you were the only one who mentions this as a possibility. Hmmmmm....

Probably the most interesting question in the bunch.

DallasTiger Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

I am merely questioning the Noah's Ark story in the Old Testament. It is hard to believe that Noah found the American Bison, Kangaroos and Llamas in the Middle East, put them in this large boat and somehow these animals found their way to America and Australia without leaving any trace that they ever inhabited the Middle East or anywhere between there and their natural habitat. Exactly, how did they get from modern day Turkey to those locations and over what period of time? If all animals originated from the Ark...how come there are any animals at all in South America? How did they traverse from Turkey to there in a few thousand years? Was Noah before or after dinasours? If before, how did he get all the dinosaurs on the Ark? It goes on and on and makes little logical sense. On the other hand, the New Testament is the story of the life of Jesus Christ and is much more factual and believable.

Scientists & many people of faith believe that in the time of Noah, the world was not laid out as it is now - the world was one "supercontinent" called Pangea:

http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/0...pangea.jpg

there was an "evolution," if you will, of the earth's plates, causing these land masses to shift, causing the separation of the continents. so these different animals could have easily moved to certain climates & vegetations & remained there, even as the land masses drifted further & further apart.

tigergreen Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

I am merely questioning the Noah's Ark story in the Old Testament. It is hard to believe that Noah found the American Bison, Kangaroos and Llamas in the Middle East, put them in this large boat and somehow these animals found their way to America and Australia without leaving any trace that they ever inhabited the Middle East or anywhere between there and their natural habitat. Exactly, how did they get from modern day Turkey to those locations and over what period of time? If all animals originated from the Ark...how come there are any animals at all in South America? How did they traverse from Turkey to there in a few thousand years? Was Noah before or after dinasours? If before, how did he get all the dinosaurs on the Ark? It goes on and on and makes little logical sense. On the other hand, the New Testament is the story of the life of Jesus Christ and is much more factual and believable.

Scientists & many people of faith believe that in the time of Noah, the world was not laid out as it is now - the world was one "supercontinent" called Pangea:

http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/0...pangea.jpg

there was an "evolution," if you will, of the earth's plates, causing these land masses to shift, causing the separation of the continents. so these different animals could have easily moved to certain climates & vegetations & remained there, even as the land masses drifted further & further apart.

So kangaroos were hopping around with dinosaurs? Why weren't dinosaurs on the Ark?

Here's a little better illustration of Pangea.

Big Ol Pimp Wrote:

tigergreen Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:

DallasTiger Wrote:There are definately parts of the Old Testament that are fairy tales. As an example, if there was really a great flood that covered the world and Noah built the Ark, how did the llamas get to South America and the Kangaroos get to Austrailia? The Ark would have to have been built at a time when there were a lot of people on the earth and there was the ability to build a large boat. It is things like this that bring the Old Testament into question.

I am merely questioning the Noah's Ark story in the Old Testament. It is hard to believe that Noah found the American Bison, Kangaroos and Llamas in the Middle East, put them in this large boat and somehow these animals found their way to America and Australia without leaving any trace that they ever inhabited the Middle East or anywhere between there and their natural habitat. Exactly, how did they get from modern day Turkey to those locations and over what period of time? If all animals originated from the Ark...how come there are any animals at all in South America? How did they traverse from Turkey to there in a few thousand years? Was Noah before or after dinasours? If before, how did he get all the dinosaurs on the Ark? It goes on and on and makes little logical sense. On the other hand, the New Testament is the story of the life of Jesus Christ and is much more factual and believable.

Scientists & many people of faith believe that in the time of Noah, the world was not laid out as it is now - the world was one "supercontinent" called Pangea:

http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/0...pangea.jpg

there was an "evolution," if you will, of the earth's plates, causing these land masses to shift, causing the separation of the continents. so these different animals could have easily moved to certain climates & vegetations & remained there, even as the land masses drifted further & further apart.

So kangaroos were hopping around with dinosaurs? Why weren't dinosaurs on the Ark?

Here's a little better illustration of Pangea.

Continental drift could not have occurred in the limited time frame that the bible gives from Noah until now.

Either way though, that must have been one smelly ship.