I would hardly call a white receiver that had never played a "star"

Ogren didn't recruit him. nuff said

TigersRuleAll Wrote:[quote="BrianJ"]Don't let any Ole Miss fan tell you he wasn't that good. I saw this kid play CBHS several times, and he was an excellent receiver.
quote]

That's exactly what they're going to say. As a matter of fact, let me just save our Rebel posters the trouble and go ahead and say it for them: "J D Lawhorn quickly realized that with our top 10 recruiting class coming in this fall, finding playing time was going to be difficult. Really, he wasn't all that good, and we only signed him to get the Park kid. He'll fit in real well at CUSA-type school like Memphis. "

In a year in which we have one catch for zero yards as the sum total of our returning receiving, he couldn't make it to the top of the depth chart. Couple that with the fact that we're bringing in quite a few highly touted WR recruits in this class, and his chances of playing time were slim and none. He was smart enough to see it wasn't going to happen for him at Ole Miss, so he left the team. I don't blame him one bit.

This isn't all that odd. It's odd when you have starters or future starters quitting your team, but guys that haven't played and likely won't play quit all the time to change schools looking for more PT.

I'm not going to run the kid down though. He's a talented receiver, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't high on the depth chart at one of our thinner positions.

As far as the other two players that quit and came to Memphis, Jada Brown is the only player Orgeron recruited that quit and he didn't even make it until the first game of the season before quitting. Mills was a Cut recruit, quit the team when Cut was still the coach, and simply transferred schools after taking a year off. Orgeron had nothing to do with his decision.

While your explanation is perfectly logical, bmglennreb, there is one little factor that still remains. The kid quit the team. In my day, a kid who was getting inspired coaching would rather fight than switch.

To me, this says that the average Ole Miss player is more concerned about themselves than their team. I don't care how you spin it. That is not a good sign for a football team.

Lawhorn runs the best routes I've seen at the high school level. Whether his athleticism is at a D1 level, I have no idea. I know his father wasn't too keen on Coach O when he took the job, that might have had something to do with it also.

Claw Wrote:While your explanation is perfectly logical, bmglennreb, there is one little factor that still remains. The kid quit the team. In my day, a kid who was getting inspired coaching would rather fight than switch.

To me, this says that the average Ole Miss player is more concerned about themselves than their team. I don't care how you spin it. That is not a good sign for a football team.

It's not spin, kids come to schools because they want to PLAY, not because they want to be a back up or play scout team. When and if they find out they aren't going to play as much as they had planned, they transfer to other schools and play.

I lived with a baseball player at Ole Miss for a couple years in college. He had expected to get increased playing time by the time he was a sophomore or junior, but he wasn't getting the ABs at the rate he expected, so he transferred. He still loves Ole Miss and got along well with the players and coaches. He just wanted to have a chance to play baseball, and it wasn't going to happen for him at Ole Miss.

Another example also with our baseball team is we signed a shortstop out of Houston High named Ryne Porter. He was highly touted and expected to take over at short in his second year when Matt Tolbert had graduated. It just so happens that we signed Zack Cozart the next year out of Collierville, and Cozart beat Porter out for the starting job as a freshman. Porter played one season as the back up SS and quit the team. He still goes to Ole Miss and hangs out with the baseball team, but he didn't want to hang on and be a back up for the next 3 years, and I don't blame him.

It's not a sign of a bad program or anything like that. It just means that the kid wants to give himself a chance to see the field and/or doesn't want to put in all that work for no reward.

I don't care to take the time to look it up, but I'm pretty sure Memphis has had quite a few football players leave the team over the past few years. It hasn't been made as high profile by the beloved CA, but players quitting and leaving a team is not uncommon. Like I said before, if he had been a starter or expected to get a lot of PT and he still quit, that's when I see a problem.

bmglennreb Wrote:

TigersRuleAll Wrote:[quote="BrianJ"]Don't let any Ole Miss fan tell you he wasn't that good. I saw this kid play CBHS several times, and he was an excellent receiver.
quote]

That's exactly what they're going to say. As a matter of fact, let me just save our Rebel posters the trouble and go ahead and say it for them: "J D Lawhorn quickly realized that with our top 10 recruiting class coming in this fall, finding playing time was going to be difficult. Really, he wasn't all that good, and we only signed him to get the Park kid. He'll fit in real well at CUSA-type school like Memphis. "

In a year in which we have one catch for zero yards as the sum total of our returning receiving, he couldn't make it to the top of the depth chart. Couple that with the fact that we're bringing in quite a few highly touted WR recruits in this class, and his chances of playing time were slim and none. He was smart enough to see it wasn't going to happen for him at Ole Miss, so he left the team. I don't blame him one bit.

This isn't all that odd. It's odd when you have starters or future starters quitting your team, but guys that haven't played and likely won't play quit all the time to change schools looking for more PT.

I have no comments on Lawhorn's talent. He's a talented receiver, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't high on the depth chart at one of our thinner positions.

As far as the other two players that quit and came to Memphis, Jada Brown is the only player Orgeron recruited that quit and he didn't even make it until the first game of the season before quitting. Mills was a Cut recruit, quit the team when Cut was still the coach, and simply transferred schools after taking a year off. Orgeron had nothing to do with his decision.

I don't disagree with some of what you say regarding JD. However, you can't have it both ways. There were folks from OM (probably not you) who were on this board gloating that coach O signed a good recruit out of our own backyard. If folks come on here gloating when a recruit signs, expect to hear about it when he quits........you're a reasonable person, you can understand that.

The other two players that you mentioned were highly recruited and left - it's normal for folks to ask what's going on.

I'm not too concerned about it though, because once again Mills was recruited by Cutcliffe and quit on Cutcliffe. Brown and Lawhorn were both part of the class that was recruited jointly by Cutcliffe and Orgeron, so I'm not surprised that things didn't work out for them. If we have these same problems with the incoming classes that had over a year to be recruited by Orgeron and still committed, I'll be concerned.

You're right that I wasn't on here talking about Lawhorn when he signed. He was a good pick up out of high school, and is still a talented receiver, but the fact is, he wasn't high on the depth chart for whatever reason. Obviously, it wasn't working out for him.

bmglennreb Wrote:I'm not too concerned about it though, because once again Mills was recruited by Cutcliffe and quit on Cutcliffe. Brown and Lawhorn were both part of the class that was recruited jointly by Cutcliffe and Orgeron, so I'm not surprised that things didn't work out for them. If we have these same problems with the incoming classes that had over a year to be recruited by Orgeron and still committed, I'll be concerned.

You're right that I wasn't on here talking about Lawhorn when he signed. He was a good pick up out of high school, and is still a talented receiver, but the fact is, he wasn't high on the depth chart for whatever reason. Obviously, it wasn't working out for him.

white receivers are never high on the depth chart

As much as we love to hate the Rebs, the fact is that finding football success in Oxford is hard just like it is here. I hope these are just the typical happenings of a program and not a symptom of something worse. The truth is that Coach O is fun to hate and I hope he's around a while!

btiger Wrote:

bmglennreb Wrote:I'm not too concerned about it though, because once again Mills was recruited by Cutcliffe and quit on Cutcliffe. Brown and Lawhorn were both part of the class that was recruited jointly by Cutcliffe and Orgeron, so I'm not surprised that things didn't work out for them. If we have these same problems with the incoming classes that had over a year to be recruited by Orgeron and still committed, I'll be concerned.

You're right that I wasn't on here talking about Lawhorn when he signed. He was a good pick up out of high school, and is still a talented receiver, but the fact is, he wasn't high on the depth chart for whatever reason. Obviously, it wasn't working out for him.

white receivers are never high on the depth chart

white receivers usually don't get recruited by BCS schools, period.

bmglennreb Wrote:

TigersRuleAll Wrote:[quote="BrianJ"]Don't let any Ole Miss fan tell you he wasn't that good. I saw this kid play CBHS several times, and he was an excellent receiver.
quote]

That's exactly what they're going to say. As a matter of fact, let me just save our Rebel posters the trouble and go ahead and say it for them: "J D Lawhorn quickly realized that with our top 10 recruiting class coming in this fall, finding playing time was going to be difficult. Really, he wasn't all that good, and we only signed him to get the Park kid. He'll fit in real well at CUSA-type school like Memphis. "

In a year in which we have one catch for zero yards as the sum total of our returning receiving, he couldn't make it to the top of the depth chart. Couple that with the fact that we're bringing in quite a few highly touted WR recruits in this class, and his chances of playing time were slim and none. He was smart enough to see it wasn't going to happen for him at Ole Miss, so he left the team. I don't blame him one bit.

This isn't all that odd. It's odd when you have starters or future starters quitting your team, but guys that haven't played and likely won't play quit all the time to change schools looking for more PT.

I'm not going to run the kid down though. He's a talented receiver, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't high on the depth chart at one of our thinner positions.
As far as the other two players that quit and came to Memphis, Jada Brown is the only player Orgeron recruited that quit and he didn't even make it until the first game of the season before quitting. Mills was a Cut recruit, quit the team when Cut was still the coach, and simply transferred schools after taking a year off. Orgeron had nothing to do with his decision.

BrianJ, I believe you may have a future as a psychic.

My point is he wasn't even on the first team coming out of spring practice, and that was before our recruiting class, which included quite a few solid receiver prospects, was even on campus. You'd have to think, if you're in that position, that your spot on the depth chart could only get worse.

Claw Wrote:While your explanation is perfectly logical, bmglennreb, there is one little factor that still remains. The kid quit the team. In my day, a kid who was getting inspired coaching would rather fight than switch.

To me, this says that the average Ole Miss player is more concerned about themselves than their team. I don't care how you spin it. That is not a good sign for a football team.

Wow, you must be old. Bear Bryant usually had half his team quit every August. I guess he wasn't a very inspired coach or something.

The bigger question would be, How would Bear Bryant do with limited scholarships? How many would have quit with the current rules in place?

HottyToddyGuy Wrote:

Claw Wrote:While your explanation is perfectly logical, bmglennreb, there is one little factor that still remains. The kid quit the team. In my day, a kid who was getting inspired coaching would rather fight than switch.

To me, this says that the average Ole Miss player is more concerned about themselves than their team. I don't care how you spin it. That is not a good sign for a football team.

Wow, you must be old. Bear Bryant usually had half his team quit every August. I guess he wasn't a very inspired coach or something.

The Bear coached when he had unlimited scholarships. The consequences of players quitting now or much greater now than then.

In all honesty, I don't think Lawhorn was a big Orgeron fan. He was a big Ole Miss fan though, so he kept his commitment even after Cutcliffe was fired. In the end, my guess is that his spot on the depth chart, along with not feeling any particular loyalty to the head coach led to him quitting.

Other than that, some of you need to get over wetting yourself every time a player from our 2005 signing class quits. For a lot of them, it was basically you could flip a coin on whether or not they were going to get along with Orgeron. That shouldn't be the case anymore, as the 2006, 2007, and beyond classes will know what they are getting when they sign with us. The 2005 class, on the other hand, had no clue. It worked for some of them. It didn't for others, which was to be expected. If we have major contributors from future classes leaving, I'll be concerned, but until that happens, it doesn't worry me at all.

fsquid Wrote:

btiger Wrote:

bmglennreb Wrote:I'm not too concerned about it though, because once again Mills was recruited by Cutcliffe and quit on Cutcliffe. Brown and Lawhorn were both part of the class that was recruited jointly by Cutcliffe and Orgeron, so I'm not surprised that things didn't work out for them. If we have these same problems with the incoming classes that had over a year to be recruited by Orgeron and still committed, I'll be concerned.

You're right that I wasn't on here talking about Lawhorn when he signed. He was a good pick up out of high school, and is still a talented receiver, but the fact is, he wasn't high on the depth chart for whatever reason. Obviously, it wasn't working out for him.

white receivers are never high on the depth chart

white receivers usually don't get recruited by BCS schools, period.

UOFMGLENN Wrote:

HottyToddyGuy Wrote:

Claw Wrote:While your explanation is perfectly logical, bmglennreb, there is one little factor that still remains. The kid quit the team. In my day, a kid who was getting inspired coaching would rather fight than switch.

To me, this says that the average Ole Miss player is more concerned about themselves than their team. I don't care how you spin it. That is not a good sign for a football team.

Wow, you must be old. Bear Bryant usually had half his team quit every August. I guess he wasn't a very inspired coach or something.

The Bear coached when he had unlimited scholarships. The consequences of players quitting now or much greater now than then.

Agreed, but when you can give 25 scholarships a year and redshirt around 10-15 a year, that basically allows you to give 100+ scholarships over a 4-5 year period. With a limit of 85 scholarships, having players quit is not that big of a deal, especially if they aren't major contributors. In fact, in a way, it helps to open up more scholarships for your next signing class.

Let's face it. If you sign 25 kids a year, it's likely that only 15 or so are truly going to pan out and contribute for you. If that's the case, it's to your advantage if some of the others quit, allowing you to recruit another full 25 the next year, so that your odds are better for having another 15 or so contribute out of your next class.

In fact, Tommy probably could've benefited if a few of his non-contributors had left the team, as he was only able to sign around 17 in his last class.

ItsDude Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:

btiger Wrote:

bmglennreb Wrote:I'm not too concerned about it though, because once again Mills was recruited by Cutcliffe and quit on Cutcliffe. Brown and Lawhorn were both part of the class that was recruited jointly by Cutcliffe and Orgeron, so I'm not surprised that things didn't work out for them. If we have these same problems with the incoming classes that had over a year to be recruited by Orgeron and still committed, I'll be concerned.

You're right that I wasn't on here talking about Lawhorn when he signed. He was a good pick up out of high school, and is still a talented receiver, but the fact is, he wasn't high on the depth chart for whatever reason. Obviously, it wasn't working out for him.

white receivers are never high on the depth chart

white receivers usually don't get recruited by BCS schools, period.

Exception to the rule.

bmglennreb Wrote:In all honesty, I don't think Lawhorn was a big Orgeron fan. He was a big Ole Miss fan though, so he kept his commitment even after Cutcliffe was fired. In the end, my guess is that his spot on the depth chart, along with not feeling any particular loyalty to the head coach led to him quitting.

Other than that, some of you need to get over wetting yourself every time a player from our 2005 signing class quits. For a lot of them, it was basically you could flip a coin on whether or not they were going to get along with Orgeron. That shouldn't be the case anymore, as the 2006, 2007, and beyond classes will know what they are getting when they sign with us. The 2005 class, on the other hand, had no clue. It worked for some of them. It didn't for others, which was to be expected. If we have major contributors from future classes leaving, I'll be concerned, but until that happens, it doesn't worry me at all.

glenn-I get your point, but c'mon,you can't tell me when you heard of it you didn't think "Oh for crying out loud! Another one!"
It was your coach who made his "fence" comment,yet it's the rebs who keep jumpin' the border the other way.

On a side note, I'll be inerested to see how the recruiting battles go b/w the 2 schools this year since last year Tommy was fighting a clogged ticker.