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The Carolina schools don't want to expand
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lawrenceterp
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Post: #1
 
They'd lose a lot of power if they did. They've already lost a little bit since FSU joined. We managed to get some tournaments moved out of their state. Imagine if 3 other teams come in. They'd only have 33% of the teams. The other 8 could gang up on them. I can't wait!!!!!!!!!
04-25-2003 04:09 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #2
 
I'd love to expand if all the "Carolina schools" would still be in our division. If not, then you're right -- I don't want to expand.

I've got no problem with the tourney being moved out of NC. I just think it works better in NC from a practical standpoint -- because when you move it up to DC or down to Tampa, you're basically making 8 teams travel (and a few of them travel a long way). When you have it in NC, everyone's travel is minimal, and half the team's don't really have to go anywhere at all.

-JD
04-25-2003 05:42 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger
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Post: #3
 
Atlanta had the highest attendance of any ACC tourney. . . . . .
04-26-2003 10:53 AM
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DamascusTerp2
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Post: #4
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Atlanta had the highest attendance of any ACC tourney. . . . . .
more seats = more people...
04-26-2003 03:03 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #5
 
DamascusTerp2 Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Atlanta had the highest attendance of any ACC tourney. . . . . .
more seats = more people...
DT2 is right...
04-26-2003 04:35 PM
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JoltinJacket
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Post: #6
 
And more people = more money, so why not play it where there are more seats, which draws more fans, which makes more money? All except the play-in game drew 40,000 plus (and the play-in drew near 27k).

IIRC, it was always a hit at the Omni during the mid/late-80s too. The point is, it was a total success in Atlanta. I'm not saying keep it in Atlanta all the time. I'd like an Atlanta/Greensboro rotation. Those two seem to be the best places for it up to this point (there's no atmosphere when it's played in Charlotte IMO).
04-26-2003 05:18 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #7
 
JoltinJacket Wrote:And more people = more money
JJ is right, also...
04-26-2003 05:29 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #8
 
JoltinJacket Wrote:I'd like an Atlanta/Greensboro rotation. Those two seem to be the best places for it up to this point (there's no atmosphere when it's played in Charlotte IMO).
I'd like to see it played in Charlotte's new uptown arena once it's built. I think part of what kills Charlotte is the location of the Coliseum. The new arena will allow fans to mingle in the uptown area before and after games, which I think would add a lot of atmosphere.

-JD
04-27-2003 10:24 PM
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just say no roy Offline
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Post: #9
 
Right on JD.The hart of basbetball in this country belongs to NC.The new Charlotte arena sounds good to me on a permanent basis. 04-cheers
04-27-2003 10:44 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #10
 
With the obvious money the tourney brings in, it is only fair to move the tourney equally throughout the conference participants schools. Just because there are a lot of schools in NC does NOT mean it should always be in NC. The basketball programs in the ACC generates enough money that travel expenses should not even by a problem. Make it fair. You have 9 schools in the conference, have the conference move in a 9 year rotation. Yes that does include having it in NC 4 times out of 9.
04-28-2003 09:45 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #11
 
That kind of rotation wouldn't work because there's nowhere in SC or Virginia that would hold the tourney. Charlotte is the closest big-money arena to Clemson, and D.C. is probably the closest to UVa.

So, D.C. really serves that same purpose for both Maryland and UVa, as does Tampa/St. Petersburg for FSU and Atlanta for Tech. So, the rotation of G-boro-Charlotte-Atlanta-D.C.-Tampa -- with G-boro and perhaps Charlotte having it multiple times in that span -- makes sense.

-JD
04-28-2003 10:16 AM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #12
 
JD Heel Wrote:That kind of rotation wouldn't work because there's nowhere in SC or Virginia that would hold the tourney. Charlotte is the closest big-money arena to Clemson, and D.C. is probably the closest to UVa.

So, D.C. really serves that same purpose for both Maryland and UVa, as does Tampa/St. Petersburg for FSU and Atlanta for Tech. So, the rotation of G-boro-Charlotte-Atlanta-D.C.-Tampa -- with G-boro and perhaps Charlotte having it multiple times in that span -- makes sense.

-JD
I agree with you completely. My point was to make it fair for all schools in the ACC. If they have a venue, great. If they do not, find one. The history of the last 44 out of 50 tournaments being played in NC is unfair. I'm sure there would be a lot of NC, NC State, Wake, Duke fans that would be pissed if the last 44 out of 50 tourneys were held in DC.
04-28-2003 03:02 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #13
 
True, but that's only because it doesn't make as much sense logistically to have it in DC as it does to have it in NC. You mentioned before that "basketball programs in the ACC generate enough money that travel expenses should not even by a problem" -- but not all ACC fans have that much money to spend on tickets and travel. Having it in NC as much as possible is more convenient for the majority of the fans.

-JD



<!--EDIT|JD Heel|Apr 28 2003, 04:27 PM-->
04-28-2003 03:21 PM
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techfan4
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Post: #14
 
JD is right. The seats are being filled, why move it? Only three ACC schools are around Atlanta(CU, Tech, and FSU), all of which have not had the greatest seasons of late. I would keep it in NC, the heart of college basketball. There is a lot more interest in the ACC in NC then Georgia. A lot of folks are either UGA, Auburn, Alabama, or Tech fans(Obviously dominated by the SEC, which plays it's football championship game in ATL)

Keep it in North Carolina.
04-28-2003 07:54 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #15
 
JD Heel Wrote:True, but that's only because it doesn't make as much sense logistically to have it in DC as it does to have it in NC. &nbsp;You mentioned before that "basketball programs in the ACC generate enough money that travel expenses should not even by a problem" -- but not all ACC fans have that much money to spend on tickets and travel. &nbsp;Having it in NC as much as possible is more convenient for the majority of the fans.

-JD
I guess you are missing my point then. This is no surprise coming fron a NC fan though. How is it fair to non-NC schools that the "fans" that attend the tournament are primarily NC fans? It's not. Yes NC is centrally located and should hold the tourney 4 out of 9 times but I guarantee you that there would be no shortage of fans in DC. There are as many Duke and NC fans around here to fill a venue on it's own. Couple that with the MD and Virginia fans and you have a very successful tourney to say the least. The conference offices are located in NC and 4 of the schools as well. That is why it stays in NC...not logistics.

As for the majority of the fans comment....that would assume that the 4 NC schools have more fans than the other 5 combined....wrong.

I guess we will have to wait until 2005 for you to see my point. I can not wait to see how the NC schools play in MD's back yard with all the fans rooting against them like MD has had to do for years. I'd also be very surprised if the tourney isn't as or more successful in DC than it was in NC.



<!--EDIT|kaisersayzo|Apr 30 2003, 11:42 AM-->
04-30-2003 10:30 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #16
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:I can not wait to see how the NC schools play in MD's back yard with all the fans rooting against them like MD has had to do for years.
If you think Maryland has had tons of fans pulling against them in the past, then you ain't seen nothin' yet. UNC in the past -- and dook currently -- are the teams that opposing ACC fans love to hate. With the exception of the past couple of years, we've always had opposing fans gang up on us. This happens in NC more than anywhere else because of the ABC factions among other Big Four schools. And, it happens nowadays to dook with the ABD crowds.

My point about the "majority of the fans" is not about fans from the state of North Carolina -- it's about fans from all the ACC schools.

Yes, when you have the tourney up in D.C., UVa and Maryland are going to have a ton of fans there... but FSU, Tech and Clemson aren't going to have squat there.

When you have in down in Tampa, FSU will probably bring a lot of fans... but Virginia and Maryland won't have that many.

When you have it in NC, every fanbase can afford to send a good contingent of fans to the tourney. That's what I mean about it being fair to the fans. For me, the great thing about the ACC tourney is that you always see a good contingent of each fanbase. The tourney is truly split into ninths (or pretty close to it), for the first round at least.

-JD
04-30-2003 10:59 AM
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Lucy
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Post: #17
 
Shoot, when the tourney is in Tampa, you won't have as many fans from any of the schools because of the travel distance. And that is one reason why expansion that potentially includes BC, Syracuse & Miami would keep an increased number of fans home from games & tournaments. Now Virginia Tech is in the heart of the current ACC region...that addition would make sense.

Having the tourney in a centralized location maximizes the opportunity for fans of most schools being able to drive in for the Thursday/Friday games and if their team wins, maybe staying over for Saturday. Your big-money fans will travel anywhere...it's the fans with small children, the students, the just-out-of-school fans who probably don't have lots of money to spend on an expensive weekend (once you add in the tourney tix package, hotel for 2 or 3 nights, and airfare as opposed to just gas money)...those are the fans who are stuck at home the years that the tourney is in Tampa or DC.

I'm not saying the tourney should always be in NC...I think it should travel periodically to accommodate the fans at the far north & far south end of the conference. Someone made a good point: Clemson & UVA don't have a large arena in their cities, but when it is Clemson's turn to "host", it could rotate between Charlotte & Atlanta (both very close venues), and UVA could "host" in DC. In a 9 year period, that would put the tourney in DC twice, in Atlanta once or twice, in Tampa once, and in G'boro & Charlotte twice (splitting the 4 NC schools' hosting between the 2 in-state neutral sites, as opposed to having the tourney held on a homecourt at the Joel or the RBC Center).

This rotation doesn't put an unfair advantage anywhere, but simply puts the tournament near every single school's location, giving every single school an opportunity to "host", and evenly distributing the tournament based on the member schools.

If Maryland and FSU fans still feel slighted, work on finding other schools close by to join the ACC and then you too could have the tournament one more time near your home. Last time I checked Miami & Tallahassee aren't exactly neighbors and Boston & Syracuse are not College Park suburbs, so those additions won't help. 03-wink



<!--EDIT|Lucy|Apr 30 2003, 12:40 PM-->
04-30-2003 11:28 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #18
 
For anyone who still feels slighted, I'll just say this: Just be glad you aren't in the Big East where they have it in New York every single year.

I agree it should be moved around, but I just think it should be in NC every other year. So, I like the current rotation a lot.

-JD
04-30-2003 11:48 AM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #19
 
JD Heel Wrote:If you think Maryland has had tons of fans pulling against them in the past, then you ain't seen nothin' yet. UNC in the past -- and dook currently -- are the teams that opposing ACC fans love to hate. With the exception of the past couple of years, we've always had opposing fans gang up on us. This happens in NC more than anywhere else because of the ABC factions among other Big Four schools. And, it happens nowadays to dook with the ABD crowds.

My point about the "majority of the fans" is not about fans from the state of North Carolina -- it's about fans from all the ACC schools.

Yes, when you have the tourney up in D.C., UVa and Maryland are going to have a ton of fans there... but FSU, Tech and Clemson aren't going to have squat there.

When you have in down in Tampa, FSU will probably bring a lot of fans... but Virginia and Maryland won't have that many.

When you have it in NC, every fanbase can afford to send a good contingent of fans to the tourney. That's what I mean about it being fair to the fans. For me, the great thing about the ACC tourney is that you always see a good contingent of each fanbase. The tourney is truly split into ninths (or pretty close to it), for the first round at least.

-JD
Are you kidding me? I have been to Greensboro and Charlotte for the tournaments in the past and I know for a fact that the NC fan base is overwhelming. Because you are a NC fan, I'm sure you never noticed how MD, Wake, VA, FLA, and Clemson are ripped when playing a NC team. Especially in MD's case recently, the fans root against MD when playing any team from NC no matter which NC team they prefer. There is no difference between playing Duke in the regular season at Duke vs. playing Duke in Greensboro (accept there are more MD haters present). The few hundred MD fans that make the trip are clearly drowned out by the NC fans. If that isn't home-court advantage, I don't know what is (unless you are a NC school playing a NC school).

So I will end with the fact that having the tourney in NC does NOT bring an equal fan-base. With that said, the home-court advantage SHOULD be distributed evenly throughout the conference under the realization that avoiding home-court advantage is impossible.
04-30-2003 01:02 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #20
 
JD Heel Wrote:I agree it should be moved around, but I just think it should be in NC every other year. So, I like the current rotation a lot.

-JD
The current rotation is fair.
04-30-2003 01:03 PM
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