Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Liberals ready to abandon US right to abortion
Author Message
The Knight Time Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,286
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 93
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #61
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:And GTS, your comparison OF A HUMAN LIFE to a sneeze is sick and absolutely inappropriate.  I'd advise you keep your pro-choice antics to a minimal.
There isn't a scientist in the world that can classify a human embryo... immediately after conception.... as a human life. For some time it's just one cell... then for many weeks thereafter it's nothing more than cells dividing rapidly. There is zero specialization. There is zero intelligence. It is no more a human than your white blood cells.. which have aguably more intelligent actions (attacking molecules based on chemical build and chemical "markers" the body attaches to them) than the embryo / extremely early fetus.

There isn't a scientist on the planet than would honestly say an embryo -- immediately upon conception -- is a human. It's ONE CELL for christ's sake. By that definition... my skin cells qualify as humans!!! If I cut myself am I then committing murder thousands upon thousands of times?

It's this simple: what you are considering a "human life" (embryo immediately after conception and for some weeks thereafter) does not jive with scientific definition. That's not scientific belief... it's friggin DEFINITION. You're essentially arguing against Webster's Dictionary.
How many babies are aborted at the instant of conception?

Babies are aborted much later when they have a beating heart, ears, eyes, etc.

Here GTS..........and every single pro- abortion advocate. Take a look at this link. You look at the picture in this link, then you TRY to defend your bull s h i t argument that an aborted baby is just like a sneeze molecule.

You look at this picture and tell me that a baby isn't alive inside a womb, and isn't a life at all.

<a href='http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.peopleforlife.org/images/malachi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.peopleforlife.org/twentyoneweeks.html&h=360&w=600&sz=71&tbnid=pnKh27nhTg4J:&tbnh=79&tbnw=133&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daborted%2Bbaby%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG' target='_blank'>This is what you advocate</a>
07-09-2005 12:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
uhmump95 Offline
Race Pimp
*

Posts: 5,337
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 50
I Root For: all my hoes!
Location:

Crappies
Post: #62
 
Well as far as i know that was an illegal abortion since you are only supposed to be able to have an abortion in the first trimester.

Like I said before, I wish there was no such thing as a bortion, but since there I am not going to hinder a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy within a reasonable time. The first trimester is reasonable enough for me.
07-09-2005 08:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GDawgs88 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,930
Joined: Oct 2002
Reputation: 8
I Root For:
Location:

Crappies
Post: #63
 
uhmump95 Wrote:Like I said before, I wish there was no such thing as a bortion, but since there I am not going to hinder a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy within a reasonable time.&nbsp; The first trimester is reasonable enough for me.
See, this is what I don't get. Although I disagree with swagger, I can at least see where he is coming from. He doesn't see abortion as morally wrong, so he's not against it. But you said you don't like abortion, so why are you not against it? If you think it's wrong why are you for it? You can't say it's about free-will. Do you think I should be allowed to murder? After all, I'd be using my free-will. Yes, free-will is a great thing, but where do you draw the line?
07-09-2005 09:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #64
 
GDawgs88 Wrote:
uhmump95 Wrote:Like I said before, I wish there was no such thing as a bortion, but since there I am not going to hinder a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy within a reasonable time.&nbsp; The first trimester is reasonable enough for me.
See, this is what I don't get. Although I disagree with swagger, I can at least see where he is coming from. He doesn't see abortion as morally wrong, so he's not against it. But you said you don't like abortion, so why are you not against it? If you think it's wrong why are you for it? You can't say it's about free-will. Do you think I should be allowed to murder? After all, I'd be using my free-will. Yes, free-will is a great thing, but where do you draw the line?
Here's what I think it is, I'm against drug use, but support someone's right to do so. I'll answer the rest tomorrow when I'm "less" drunk. Wild Wings is a beautiful thing.
07-09-2005 11:58 PM
Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 51,393
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 2017
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU, WYO
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #65
 
GDawgs88 Wrote:See, this is what I don't get. Although I disagree with swagger, I can at least see where he is coming from. He doesn't see abortion as morally wrong, so he's not against it.
Not quite. I see abortion as the (much) lesser of two evils in many circumstances. I do see it being morally wrong after the fetus has developed rudimentary brain functionality. Also, making abortions illegal (just like drugs) will not stop them from happening. For those that really want one, they can just go to Canada... Mexico... or the creepy guy in the alley with a coat hanger.
07-10-2005 12:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 51,393
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 2017
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU, WYO
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #66
 
The Knight Time Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:And GTS, your comparison OF A HUMAN LIFE to a sneeze is sick and absolutely inappropriate.&nbsp; I'd advise you keep your pro-choice antics to a minimal.
There isn't a scientist in the world that can classify a human embryo... immediately after conception.... as a human life. For some time it's just one cell... then for many weeks thereafter it's nothing more than cells dividing rapidly. There is zero specialization. There is zero intelligence. It is no more a human than your white blood cells.. which have aguably more intelligent actions (attacking molecules based on chemical build and chemical "markers" the body attaches to them) than the embryo / extremely early fetus.

There isn't a scientist on the planet than would honestly say an embryo -- immediately upon conception -- is a human. It's ONE CELL for christ's sake. By that definition... my skin cells qualify as humans!!! If I cut myself am I then committing murder thousands upon thousands of times?

It's this simple: what you are considering a "human life" (embryo immediately after conception and for some weeks thereafter) does not jive with scientific definition. That's not scientific belief... it's friggin DEFINITION. You're essentially arguing against Webster's Dictionary.
How many babies are aborted at the instant of conception?

Babies are aborted much later when they have a beating heart, ears, eyes, etc.

Here GTS..........and every single pro- abortion advocate. Take a look at this link. You look at the picture in this link, then you TRY to defend your bull s h i t argument that an aborted baby is just like a sneeze molecule.

You look at this picture and tell me that a baby isn't alive inside a womb, and isn't a life at all.

<a href='http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.peopleforlife.org/images/malachi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.peopleforlife.org/twentyoneweeks.html&h=360&w=600&sz=71&tbnid=pnKh27nhTg4J:&tbnh=79&tbnw=133&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daborted%2Bbaby%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG' target='_blank'>This is what you advocate</a>
Sigh. Another person who sees things as black or white.

I am pro-choice under certain circumstances. The picture of the aborted baby you gave? It was TWENTY ONE FRIGGIN' WEEKS old. You do realize there is NO reason for an abortion to occur at more than.. say 6 weeks? Realistically... 4 weeks. Your period stops. Hello - take a pregnancy test. That person waited nearly SIX F'N MONTHS before aborting. That's a HUGE difference from what I'm abdicating... and if you can't grasp that.. then wake the hell up. By that time the baby has long had rudimentary brain functionality. I'm talking about the 6-week and under range... and most shouldn't take more 3 weeks. You have to ovulate to concieve... the time diff b/t then and the missing period? 2 weeks. Plus another 1 week to schedule an appointment. You wanna compare a fetus at 3 weeks to one at TWENTY ONE weeks??? Hardly a comparison at all.

If you're going to attack my position with photos - why don't you post a photo of a fetus at around 3 weeks hmm?

NO... F*CKING... COMPARISON. Here's the development status during times I"m talking about:

Week 5:
Three weeks after fertilisation, the different parts of the embryo start to form. Three layers of cells form, out of which all the different organs of the body will develop. Two folds grow along the length of the embryo - these roll up to make the neural tube which eventually becomes the brain and spinal cord. The placenta, the embryo's life-support system, starts to work, delivering nourishment and taking waste products away.
Summary: No nervous system is present... I couldn't even find a picture... probably b/c they don't show up on ultrasound yet.

Week 6:
By four weeks, the embryo has a head, tail, backbone and limb buds - which will eventually become arms and legs. The beginnings of ears and eyes are also visible. Its heart is already beating, and the other organs are forming fast. An umbilical cord starts to grow between the embryo and the placenta. During this time, the embryo is especially sensitive to any drugs or infections capable of crossing the placenta from the mother.
Summary: Still virtually no nervous sytem what-so-ever. I"m sure somebody is going to latch on to "heart beating" ... the heart is nothing more than a muscle that contracts. It isn't even pumping BLOOD yet. So take that potential argument and shove it.

[Image: 1-2-3-1-5-0-0-0-0-0-0.jpg]
You going to call that a human??? I'll give you this... in the weeks following this one, development of organs rapidly happens. That's why my cutoff point is here. And there isn't a single parent ON THE PLANET EARTH that can't find out they're pregnant in time to take action by week 6. The overwhelming majority should be able to find out by week 3.

You can take your images of fetus wildly beyond this time frame and shove them. The FACTS do not side with you. I have spoken nothing but facts on this topic. I used the sneeze analogies b/c they were appropriate for thus arguging life begins at conception. You know what you are arguging is a human??

THIS!
[Image: 1-2-3-1-2-0-0-0-0-0-0.jpg]After fertilisation, the genes carried by the egg and sperm combine, creating the complete set of instructions needed to make a new person. The fertilised egg is called a zygote. About 30 hours later, this single cell starts to divide - into two, four, then eight cells, and so on. Meanwhile it travels down the fallopian tube and six days later, the resulting clump of cells burrows into the lining of the womb. Only about 75 per cent of all fertilised eggs get as far as this stage.
After fertilisation, the genes carried by the egg and sperm combine, creating the complete set of instructions needed to make a new person. The fertilised egg is called a zygote. About 30 hours later, this single cell starts to divide - into two, four, then eight cells, and so on. Meanwhile it travels down the fallopian tube and six days later, the resulting clump of cells burrows into the lining of the womb. Only about 75 per cent of all fertilised eggs get as far as this stage.

There isn't a scientist ON THE PLANET that would agree with you! It took an ELECTRON MICROSCOPE to ****ing see that!!!!!!!

*** **** I hate stupid people that assume their opinions are right and when confronted with the truth they dodge it by providing COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT information.

So you can get things straight: My cut off point is towards the end of this period HERE:
<a href='http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibitions/lifecycle/51.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibition...ifecycle/51.asp</a>
Weeks 4 to 8

By the end of week 8 (the 10th week of pregnancy), all the different parts of the body are in place. Fingers and toes form - the embryo now has unique fingerprints. Its head is still very large compared to its body - almost half its length. The brain is growing at about 100,000 new brain cells every minute. All embryos look identical at seven weeks, before the sex-determining gene is switched on in males.
07-10-2005 12:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Knight Time Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,286
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 93
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #67
 
I'll ask again: True or false?

An abortion stops a BEATING HUMAN HEART. TRUE OR FALSE?

We're on our way to 1 million more children killed this year.

I hope you're all happy supporting this.

WHAT IF YOU WERE ABORTED?
07-10-2005 02:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Ninerfan1 Offline
Habitual Line Stepper
*

Posts: 9,871
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 146
I Root For: Charlotte
Location:
Post: #68
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:There isn't a scientist in the world that can classify a human embryo... immediately after conception.... as a human life.
Actually, there's nothing else it can be classified as.

The argument is whether it's a life or not. The argument is not whether it's human life. If it's life, it can only be human life.

There is a measurable heart around 3 weeks after conception. Most women have cycles that can vary in that range so they don't discover they are pregnant until after this point. Therefore, all abortions do stop a beating heart. So what kind of heart is it? We know only living beings have hearts, so therefore it must be alive. Can it be anything other than a human life? Basic reasoning, deductive logic and science itself tells us no, it can't.

The fact is in the majority of cases abortion is a matter of convenience, not necessity. But the argument for it cannot be made scientifically because it can't be anything other than human life, even many abortion supporters will tell you that. The foudation they based their argument on is the question of is it a viable human life. However that leads to all sorts of slippery slopes.

One need not be religious in any way to be against abortion. The argument against it can be made quite easily on a scientific basis.
07-10-2005 08:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
uhmump95 Offline
Race Pimp
*

Posts: 5,337
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 50
I Root For: all my hoes!
Location:

Crappies
Post: #69
 
GDawgs88 Wrote:You can't say it's about free-will. Do you think I should be allowed to murder? After all, I'd be using my free-will. Yes, free-will is a great thing, but where do you draw the line?
You are allowed to commit murder. There is nothing hindering you (including the laws of our society and God) that make it so that you can't commit a murder. The reason that you do not commit murder is because you CHOOSE not to. Now if you choose not murder people because you are afraid of imprisonment or the death penalty than that is your CHOICE. But all you have to do is turn on the news and see many instances of where people did CHOOSE to commit murder, regardless of the consequences.

You cannot hinder free will. If a law was passed to make abortions illegal, than women who want to terminate their pregnanacy would simply find illegal means to have an abortion.
07-10-2005 12:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Knight Time Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,286
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 93
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #70
 
uhmump95 Wrote:You cannot hinder free will. If a law was passed to make abortions illegal, than women who want to terminate their pregnanacy would simply find illegal means to have an abortion.
If they'd choose to do it, then they would be prosecuted and sentenced for murder.

"It is a poverty that a child must die so you can live the way you wish"-Mother Theresa
07-10-2005 12:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 51,393
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 2017
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU, WYO
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #71
 
The Knight Time Wrote:I'll ask again: True or false?

An abortion stops a BEATING HUMAN HEART. TRUE OR FALSE?

We're on our way to 1 million more children killed this year.

I hope you're all happy supporting this.

WHAT IF YOU WERE ABORTED?
An abortion in the time period I speak of aborts a fetus with NO NERVOUS SYSTEM (brain, spinal cord, nerves, eyes, ears, sensory perception) WHATSOEVER... TRUE OR FALSE?

We're on our way to 1 million religious conservatives without a clue or willingness to grasp the facts.

And you could still be aborted under my perception b/c I have yet to see intelligence thrown back in my general direction. I'm sensing no brain activity over here. And if I was aborted in the time period I speak of... well.. that's an oxymoron... b/c I didn't exist yet. "I" would of had NO NERVOUS SYSTEM WHATSOEVER.
07-10-2005 04:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Guest
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #72
 
There's a certain level of sentience that should be required. I'm all in favor of drawing a line and if you're below that limit, you cannot expected to be a productive member of society and deserve to die.

I think the cutoff should be at an IQ of about 120...
07-10-2005 05:13 PM
Quote this message in a reply
gruehls
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #73
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
The Knight Time Wrote:I'll ask again:&nbsp; True or false?

An abortion stops a BEATING HUMAN HEART.&nbsp; TRUE OR FALSE?

We're on our way to 1 million more children killed this year.

I hope you're all happy supporting this.

WHAT IF YOU WERE ABORTED?
An abortion in the time period I speak of aborts a fetus with NO NERVOUS SYSTEM (brain, spinal cord, nerves, eyes, ears, sensory perception) WHATSOEVER... TRUE OR FALSE?

We're on our way to 1 million religious conservatives without a clue or willingness to grasp the facts.

And you could still be aborted under my perception b/c I have yet to see intelligence thrown back in my general direction. I'm sensing no brain activity over here. And if I was aborted in the time period I speak of... well.. that's an oxymoron... b/c I didn't exist yet. "I" would of had NO NERVOUS SYSTEM WHATSOEVER.
man, this is not about zits and phlegm and nonsense.

it's about what establishes us as human, and if you believe we have some defining, unique element that makes us different from dogs or worms or zits, the compelling question must be "when do we gain that uniqueness?"

until somebody shows me, scientifically or otherwise, that the unique component does not begin at conception, i believe it is best to assume it does, and i don't much care what the scans and grams show at 2,4,or 6 weeks.

p.s. re-read Roe if you think 3 months is the cut off. the entire trimester analysis is idiotic.
07-10-2005 05:28 PM
Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 51,393
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 2017
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU, WYO
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #74
 
gruehls Wrote:it's about what establishes us as human, and if you believe we have some defining, unique element that makes us different from dogs or worms or zits, the compelling question must be "when do we gain that uniqueness?"
Quite simply the brain. Which forms at the end of the 4-to-8 week (6-to-10th week of pregnancy).
07-10-2005 08:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #75
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
gruehls Wrote:it's about what establishes us as human, and if you believe we have some defining, unique element that makes us different from dogs or worms or zits, the compelling question must be "when do we gain that uniqueness?"
Quite simply the brain. Which forms at the end of the 4-to-8 week (6-to-10th week of pregnancy).
So you're against abortion after the 4th to 8th week?
07-10-2005 10:42 PM
Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 51,393
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 2017
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU, WYO
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #76
 
RebelKev Wrote:
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
gruehls Wrote:it's about what establishes us as human, and if you believe we have some defining, unique element that makes us different from dogs or worms or zits, the compelling question must be "when do we gain that uniqueness?"
Quite simply the brain. Which forms at the end of the 4-to-8 week (6-to-10th week of pregnancy).
So you're against abortion after the 4th to 8th week?
I've only said that at least 3 times. In specific... the 7th to 8th week (9th to 10th week of pregnancy).
07-10-2005 11:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JTiger Offline
Grand Master Sexaaayyyy
*

Posts: 16,068
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 282
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Germantown
Post: #77
 
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:
gruehls Wrote:it's about what establishes us as human, and if you believe we have some defining, unique element that makes us different from dogs or worms or zits, the compelling question must be "when do we gain that uniqueness?"
Quite simply the brain. Which forms at the end of the 4-to-8 week (6-to-10th week of pregnancy).
I would say our soul establishes us as humans, which is fully developed at the point of conception, IMO.
07-11-2005 06:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cant_think_of_a_witty_nam Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,218
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 3
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #78
 
Is soul a medical term? Would you care to point that out to me on a diagram of the human body?
07-11-2005 08:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
uhmump95 Offline
Race Pimp
*

Posts: 5,337
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 50
I Root For: all my hoes!
Location:

Crappies
Post: #79
 
OwlJacket Wrote:I think the cutoff should be at an IQ of about 120...
That would take out most texas and atm grads. I am for it 04-cheers
07-11-2005 08:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JTiger Offline
Grand Master Sexaaayyyy
*

Posts: 16,068
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 282
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Germantown
Post: #80
 
cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Is soul a medical term? Would you care to point that out to me on a diagram of the human body?
You either believe or you don't, that's called faith.
07-11-2005 09:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.