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An undecided voter just made up his mind
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Post: #21
 
flyingswoosh Wrote:
Open Secrets Wrote:flyishswoosh, why is it that whenever someone disagrees with you, they become pompous or stupid?
am i not allowed to have my own opinion? i thought that what you wrote sounded very pompous.
Are you confusing the right to have an opinion with having something worth saying?

You sound like a liberal. :rolleyes:
11-01-2004 10:53 PM
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Post: #22
 
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and by the way, if he is elected, I don't give a damn if he IS president. I do NOT respect that SOB. I think I have clearly stated my reasons.
Why the bitterness? :bang:
Damn OS, you haven't been reading? The man, in my eyes and most all other military members, is a traitor.
11-01-2004 11:14 PM
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Post: #23
 
RebelKev Wrote:
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and by the way, if he is elected, I don't give a damn if he IS president. I do NOT respect that SOB. I think I have clearly stated my reasons.
Why the bitterness? :bang:
Damn OS, you haven't been reading? The man, in my eyes and most all other military members, is a traitor.
I dislike Kerry's policy as much as the next guy, and I am open to be convinced otherwise, but the way I see it is this.

Kerry actually fought. Did he deserve 3 purple hearts? Probably not. He came home and protested the war, having seen it firsthand. I see little problem with that. My beef with Kerry lies elsewhere.
11-01-2004 11:17 PM
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Post: #24
 
.....and he did it for no other reason but partisan politics.....even since '71. He wanted to be a John F. Kennedy, but the times changed to the point where it was no longer popular to be a war hero...so he flip-flopped. He was there 4.5 months and claimed to be an expert? Hell, when he called up a swift vet asking who "these guys" were and why they were pissed, the guy stated, "Well John, I'm one of 'em and we didn't appreciate what you did when you got back", to which he replied, "I wasn't talking about the swiftees". .....then who the hell ELSE was he talking about? He was no where NEAR anyone else throughout that vast country. He also will NOT release all of his records, but has his surrogates bash Bush's record. His own site shows a DD-215, a correction to the original....a DD-214. Where's the DD-214 and why was the correction made in '91?

Screw John Kerry. His surrogates, he as well, bash Bush but hold Clinton, a draft-dodger, up on a pedestal.

I reiterate, this is more about him than the party. There are many democrats I respect, although most I disagree with. At least they are principled.
11-01-2004 11:19 PM
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Post: #25
 
Also, Kerry is talking about rolling back the tax cuts to a point where someone making 195 a year makes about 15 dollars more than someone making 205. No matter how you slice it, those are the people creating the jobs.
11-01-2004 11:23 PM
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Post: #26
 
....and he is NOT serious about fighting terror and will subjugate our national security to the United Nations, to whom he is a BIG supporter. Anyone with half a brain can do a little research on their history of security.
11-01-2004 11:24 PM
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Post: #27
 
RebelKev Wrote:.....and he did it for no other reason but partisan politics.....even since '71. He wanted to be a John F. Kennedy, but the times changed to the point where it was no longer popular to be a war hero...so he flip-flopped. He was there 4.5 months and claimed to be an expert? Hell, when he called up a swift vet asking who "these guys" were and why they were pissed, the guy stated, "Well John, I'm one of 'em and we didn't appreciate what you did when you got back", to which he replied, "I wasn't talking about the swiftees". .....then who the hell ELSE was he talking about? He was no where NEAR anyone else throughout that vast country. He also will NOT release all of his records, but has his surrogates bash Bush's record. His own site shows a DD-215, a correction to the original....a DD-214. Where's the DD-214 and why was the correction made in '91?

Screw John Kerry. His surrogates, he as well, bash Bush but hold Clinton, a draft-dodger, up on a pedestal.

I reiterate, this is more about him than the party. There are many democrats I respect, although most I disagree with. At least they are principled.
Kev, anything you say does not negate the fact that he actually did serve. It may be true (I don't know enough specifics to speak intelligently about it entirely) that Kerry protested the war for political gain. However, Bush has nothing on Kerry in relation to his war history. Bush, like any smart, affluent, white male, chose to stay in the States and play around for a while. I'm not blaming him, but realize that Bush is no war hero. Not even close.
11-01-2004 11:25 PM
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Post: #28
 
RebelKev Wrote:Also, Kerry is talking about rolling back the tax cuts to a point where someone making 195 a year makes about 15 dollars more than someone making 205. No matter how you slice it, those are the people creating the jobs.
Now you are getting to points that I agree with.
11-01-2004 11:25 PM
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Post: #29
 
RebelKev Wrote:....and he is NOT serious about fighting terror and will subjugate our national security to the United Nations, to whom he is a BIG supporter. Anyone with half a brain can do a little research on their history of security.
Anyone with half a brain also realizes that the UN is the only diplomatic hope in an already broken world.
11-01-2004 11:26 PM
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Post: #30
 
OS, Bush never claimed to be a war hero. John Kerry did. He was also white and affluent and tried many times to get out of Vietnam. Bush met, many times exceeding, his min. 50 units a year. The notion that he didn't is a lie.
11-01-2004 11:28 PM
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Post: #31
 
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and he is NOT serious about fighting terror and will subjugate our national security to the United Nations, to whom he is a BIG supporter. Anyone with half a brain can do a little research on their history of security.
Anyone with half a brain also realizes that the UN is the only diplomatic hope in an already broken world.
Should we get the UN's approval before we protect ourselves? That's Kerry's main point....if you read between the lines, not what he says to a certain group. The UN sucks at diplomacy as well, that is also documented.
11-01-2004 11:29 PM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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Post: #32
 
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and he is NOT serious about fighting terror and will subjugate our national security to the United Nations, to whom he is a BIG supporter. Anyone with half a brain can do a little research on their history of security.
Anyone with half a brain also realizes that the UN is the only diplomatic hope in an already broken world.
war is inevitable. i'm not saying diplomacy is always a bad idea, but it doesn't work when your knees buckle in the face of genocide (kofi annan), and when your diplomacy unit is corrupt.
11-01-2004 11:31 PM
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Post: #33
 
How about this:

UBL and most of the other terrorists that have spoke out, as well as other countries that are on record as being polled that they wish to see a weaker USA, want Kerry in office.

The Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guard personnel that protect us every day, support Bush.

You decide.
11-01-2004 11:31 PM
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Post: #34
 
RebelKev Wrote:
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and by the way, if he is elected, I don't give a damn if he IS president. I do NOT respect that SOB. I think I have clearly stated my reasons.
Why the bitterness? :bang:
Damn OS, you haven't been reading? The man, in my eyes and most all other military members, is a traitor.
Most of the vets I know (my father is retired Navy...I've been around quite a few in my lifetime) aren't really pro-Kerry, but they are very anti-Bush.

To go off on a tangent, I find it appalling that elections today are not decided by who is considered most worthy, but who is considered least unworthy.
11-02-2004 12:53 AM
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Post: #35
 
99Tiger Wrote:To go off on a tangent, I find it appalling that elections today are not decided by who is considered most worthy, but who is considered least unworthy.
Insert YET ANOTHER plug for Michael Badnarik here.
11-02-2004 02:52 AM
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Post: #36
 
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:If it bothers you, I will take it down. No one has ever asked me to and the ones I see of Bush are WWWWAY over the line. Try getting a Dem to do the same. Don't ***** when you haven't brought it up until now.


.....and you show me some of the blowhards on this board that have respect for Bush because he's the president.
It's not that it bothers me in a derogatory sense. It just saddens me that it is what politics in this country seems to have come to.

I wouldn't classify myself as a Democrat or Republican, but as someone who dislikes Bush's policy, I have extreme respect for him as President.

And I sincerely hope you would acknowledge either Bush or Kerry as "President Bush" or "President Kerry" should either be elected.
There are A LOT of people who agree with what you are saying in this thread, rest assured. Way more than anyone on television ever realizes.

People like Michael Moore, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Al Franken LOVE to divide this country and ENCOURAGE bitterness and hate because it helps them sell books, movies, and ratings. Hate speech has become an industry in this country, and its killing our politics.

It was the hatred of the extreme left that I saw during the summer that drove me into being a Bush supporter, despite the fact that I am a VERY centrist Democrat. BUT, lately I've realized that there is only one person responsible for the divisiveness in this country, and its President Bush. I like the guy, actually. I just think that his influenced to much by Karl Rove, his policy influenced too much by an arrogant and increasingly closed-minded Dick Cheney, that his administration is uncapable of admitting mistakes, and doesn't think they need to be held accountable for everything. You can see this in that they don't even have anything positive to campaign on anymore...their whole message is that if Kerry gets elected, its a vote for our enemies... I mean, ****, what kind of a message is that for a man who is asking us to let him lead our country? And could you believe what Bush said to Brokaw last night, that criticism of our Iraq policy is just "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", and not legitimate? Mr. President, if we can't talk about your war planning during the war because it is unpatriotic, and we can't talk about it after the war when its time to vote because it is second-guessing, when the hell do the American people actually get to have a say on the matter? Or is that illegitimate for me to say?

This country was united after 9/11. The unity even lasted up until well after the Afghan war. It even lasted up until the planning for the war in Iraq, which I was fine with initially. But the way they railroaded that through in such a rush, without getting a consensus in the country agreeing with it, has caused so many of the problems we are now having. They took the country to war without a national consensus...they call that a profile in courage, real leadership. I just call it bad judgement. I mean, the problem it has caused is that the world sees a divided home front while our country is at war, and they see it as a sign of weakness. Iran and North Korea have seen this and been taking advantage of this in the past year. Meanwhile, since the country is so divided on the war, Bush has had to craft Iraq policy over the last 16 months with an eye to the election. That has hurt our occupation planning and policy immensely.

I want to win the war in Iraq right now. We NEED to win in Iraq. We're losing at the moment. Even Colin Powell has recently indicated this. The trend lines are not good. Bush has not demonstrated that he has what it takes to confront the hard truths that need to be confronted before we can turn this around. I don't know if Kerry is the man. But if things continue as is, we are going to lose in Iraq, and that is unacceptable to me. We need a fresh start. Electing Kerry at least gives the partisan Democrats something to have invested in the outcome as well. That will go a long way towards uniting the country. They need to start taking the war on Islamic Fundamentalism seriously as well. But one thing is clear...we need a more united country and a fresh start. We need better leadership. We should expect more, we can do better, and its time for accountability.
11-02-2004 03:01 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #37
 
Yeah, go ahead and vote for the man who wants to make an issue out of the VP's daughters sexual preference. That is a true lover of mankind. :rolleyes:
11-02-2004 07:24 AM
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Post: #38
 
RebelKev Wrote:
Open Secrets Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:....and by the way, if he is elected, I don't give a damn if he IS president. I do NOT respect that SOB. I think I have clearly stated my reasons.
Why the bitterness? :bang:
Damn OS, you haven't been reading? The man, in my eyes and most all other military members, is a traitor.
Speak for yourself. Don't try to speak for everyone in uniform.
11-02-2004 07:41 AM
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Post: #39
 
RebelKev Wrote:He was there 4.5 months and claimed to be an expert? Hell, when he called up a swift vet asking who "these guys" were and why they were pissed, the guy stated, "Well John, I'm one of 'em and we didn't appreciate what you did when you got back", to which he replied, "I wasn't talking about the swiftees". .....then who the hell ELSE was he talking about? He was no where NEAR anyone else throughout that vast country.
Kerry was actually citing the testimony of 150 servicemen who, months earlier in Detroit, had personally attested to committed what they perceived to be war crimes.

<a href='http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html' target='_blank'>http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/...yTestimony.html</a>

"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam..."

The "they" in that sentence refers to the veterans who testified in Detroit.

In other words, Kerry didn't accuse anyone of anything. He merely recounted what he had been personally been told months earlier by war veterans.
11-02-2004 07:49 AM
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Post: #40
 
RebelKev Wrote:....and he is NOT serious about fighting terror and will subjugate our national security to the United Nations, to whom he is a BIG supporter.
Kerry has said precisely the opposite again and again.
11-02-2004 07:50 AM
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