I think you'd be taken a lot more seriously if you would do things like admit when you made a mistake instead of trying to pan it off like someone else doesn't know what they are talking about....

-JD

Duke is always first or second in number of ACC championships won each year along with UNC, and top 2 or 3 in ACC Sears Cup rankings for overall sports. Duke just needs a new football coach, and there are plenty of guaranteed winners out there like Navy's new coach or UMD's offensive coordinator, etc. Like I said Duke has great football tradition and the same potential as Northwestern and Stanford which have won 4 conference titles in 8 years and competed for national championships. Plus the A League doesn't want 10 great football teams because it leads to suicidal schedules and inability to schedule quality nonconference opponents. All things being equal, recruits just like regular students obviously choose Duke over other schools for its academics, Duke currently funds the fewest athletics scholarships in ACC and yet still dominates in basketball and overall sports, it will soon increase scholarships significantly to dominate sports nationally along with Stanford. GT is consistently near the bottom of ACC Sears Cup rankings and unranked in football and basketball, however Atlanta and GA is a key market and location is extremely important, GT has sufficient potential and tradition. Let's stick to a serious discussion of the issues.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: BlueDevil ]</small>

Here is a little friendly advice (and please take it that way and not as sarcasm):

It would help a lot if you broke your paragraphs down a bit. No matter how long a post is, it's easier to read and less menacing if the paragraphs are short.

If a paragraph gets to be over ten lines or so, you start losing people....

-JD

Judging from his writing skills, I seriously doubt he knows what a paragraph is. If he was going to flame, I wish he would just come out and say it, not try to be some pseudo-intellectual.

Blue Balls,

We know you're a moron. Just go ahead and flame away.

Blue Devil,
There's only one way to put, you're crazy. You could make your dream come true if you were a type of commissioner, but it's not happening. Also I was very insulted that you left my team (CLEMSON) out of your list, however I do understand your basketball aspect. The ACC isn't just about Basketball!

no

the ACC aint broke-dont try to fix it

I saw this loser post this same crap on another board, I think it was the Ultimate NCAA message board which talks about conference realignment. The fact is no true ACC fan would want to break up the conference. Some may argue to add a few schools, but none would want to break it up. No true Duke fan would want to break NCSU and Wake Forest away from Duke and UNC.

This guy has no idea what he is talking about. You and your ignorant friends at the Ultimate NCAA board need to realize that conferences dont just break up and form new ones out of no where. Conference split-ups occur over years of constant problems that cause a gradual decline (i.e. the SWC). There is a slight possibly of conference shakeups over the next few years, but nothing to the scale you and your friends think.

The ACC is 2nd of 2 conferences in southeast, mediocre among BCS conferences in basketball and a joke in football according to media and coaches polls and computers like Sagarin ratings used to determine pointspreads, plus it's the least fair conference with its tourney in NC every year and ref bias, Big East is dead last in both sports. Wake has the worst alltime win percentage of 114 div.IA programs and should move to new Big East where they would be much more competitive instead of continuing to steal money from the ACC. Duke and other ACC alums often live in northeast and want to be able to watch games and expand the TV region while improving the school's exposure and prestige and endowment, administrators want to stop losing millions every year in sports so they can fund more scholarships and dominate sports nationally, raise number of applicants, and improve academics, etc.

Conferences are always evolving, constantly adding and dropping schools, even the ACC, the link below shows that every major and minor conference has had multiple changes over the years, lots of teams leave for better conferences and more money:

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/sports/conferenceratings/history.html" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/sports/conferenceratings/history.html</a>

Also, ACC and Big East have the worst traditions by far among the 6 major BCS conferences, and are the two weakest overall, that along with the gap between the haves and have nots in each conference and the worse than communist distribution agreement and archaic and reactionary voting system and unfair conference tourney location and unwieldy distribution with each concentrated in just part of the coast and ACC concentrated in just one small market, etc., make those 2 the most unstable conferences.

The ACC was formed in 1953 when 7 schools left the Southern Conference, which itself was formed in 1921 by 14 members of the 30 member Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association. The Southern Conference has had 41 different members and changed several times, like when 13 of 23 members left to form the SEC. Southern Conference used to have schools like Washington and Lee, University of the South, and Wake Forest, obviously that doesn't mean those schools are worthy of being in top conferences now.

<a href="http://wajl10.com/history/conf/southern.htm" target="_blank">http://wajl10.com/history/conf/southern.htm</a>

All conferences evolve, and schools are always looking to be in better leagues, preferably the best, but if they ever do get in the best like the Ivy League, they never leave and have no reason to. Atlantic League with Syracuse, BC, Penn State, UMD, UVA, Duke, UNC, GT, FSU, and Miami, would dominate the east with half the US population and more than half the media and money, and the first conference of the third millennium would be the best in every sport and every way forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BlueDevil:
plus it's the least fair conference with its tourney in NC every year and ref bias</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Baseball: Duke was 9th (last)
Football: Duke was 9th (last)
Field Hockey: Duke was 5th (last.. only 5 teams)
Lacrosse: Duke was 2nd (of 4... with a 8-7 record...)
Soccer: Duke was 5th (of 7... losing record..)
W Soccer: Duke was 7th (of 8)
Track: No individual or overall winners... not even close
Wrestling: Duke was 5th (of 5... winless in conf.)

Where's that domination across the sporting world you speak of?

"Bluedevil", NOTHING you say holds any water because your posts consist of outright lies like this: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BlueDevil:
Clemson, NCSU, and Wake are mediocre to horrendous in everything</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Each of these schools have SEVERAL sports which they are considered to be national powers in.

This is half-ribbing and half-serious: in which sports is NCSU considered a "national power?"

(And I am by no means implying that State should be kicked out of the ACC or any foolishness of that sort. I am just curious to see the answer to that question. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

-JD

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: JD Heel ]</small>

Yeah, Wake's 3 ACC baseball championships in 5 years (1998, 1999, 2001) are pretty mediocre to horrendous. I must add those definitions to my copy of Webster's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Lucy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JD Heel:
This is half-ribbing and half-serious: in which sports is NCSU considered a "national power?"

(And I am by no means implying that State should be kicked out of the ACC or any foolishness of that sort. I am just curious to see the answer to that question. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

-JD</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Women's basketball (last year was an abberation), track & field, cross country, and golf, for starters. And don't forget the cheerleading and dance teams <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> And I certainly wouldn't call football, men's basketball, and wrestling "mediocre to horrendous"

Calling State's women's basketball team a "national power" would be a bit of a stretch, I think. Yes, usually they are in the upper half of the ACC and often sneak into the top 25 poll somewhere. They also went to the Final Four one year during the 90's, but let's face it: we've had a lot more success in women's basketball lately (both in the ACC and overall), and I wouldn't exactly call us a "national power" either.

Cross country I'll give you. Although a team championship would add a lot.

Golf: Seems to me that the men's team is usually good and that Duke dominates everyone on the women's side.

Track: NC State is not one I would consider a "national power." I mainly think of a lot of those West Coast schools like UCLA and a few SEC schools.

Cheerleading: Let's face it -- there are two "national powers" in cheerleading, Kentucky and Louisville. Everyone else just shows up. (Disclaimer: I know this because my roommate was a cheerleader at Carolina <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

You make a good point in that State is usually good in the other sports you mentioned -- and I don't doubt that, but they aren't "national powers" in those sports either.

I'm not really busting State's chops (or maybe I am), but I just don't think to put "NC State" and "national power" in the same sentence often. I do think of it as a good athletic program that is usually not consistently bad at anything.

Maybe it's because I use that term sparingly, though. In non-revenue sports like the ones you mentioned, I would consider fewer teams as "national powers" as I would in basketball or football.

-JD

While I did use a loose definition of national power, we usually fall among the top 30 in the sports I listed (some better or more recent than others). I wanted to show that we competed well on a national level, not just in the ACC. But since the point here is to show BlueDevil that he's full of crap, it'll suffice to say that in the sports I listed, we usually finish in the top 3 in the conference that he wants us out of.

Just for the record, NCSU is definitely "mediocre to horrendous" in baseball (which used to be a national power until Todd Turner/Elliot Avent ran it into the ground), tennis, and volleyball. I know that facility improvements are in the works for baseball and tennis, so I'm hoping that helps.

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Upper Deck Chevy ]</small>

I'll agree with all that -- especially that State usually competes well in every sport.

Hopefully, they can build themselves into more of a perennial power in basketball or football, or finally get a national title in one of the other sports they usually do well in (cross country, golf, etc.). I think that would be a huge boost to the athletic program.

-JD

I would like to congratulate blue devil on his ability to break down such a complex topic in such succinct manner!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Big Pimpin Deac:
Paul,

Let me explain this very clearly to you. The other eight ACC institutions let F$U in this league despite their better judgment. Your school brings nothing to the table except a renegade, scandal-filled football program. Your basketball team blows, your academics are non-existent, and Trailerparkee is a shithole. I already know what your response will be. "Weak forrest don't belong in the acc cause y'all suck in football!" Well, we are on par with you in baseball, better in basketball, much better academically, and as soon as we beat your podunk asses in football, there will be nothing left for you or your fellow Criminoles to say to us. It will happen someday, by the way. So don't come over here telling us we should be expelled from the league when we voted to include you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm..."The Hand that Feeds Us!"

Quaint...

HaHa HaHa Criminoles...Huh? BTW, How is the NCAA
investigation coming along?

"As soon as we beat your podunk asses in football..." Yeah, and if the Bear had stopped
to...(Well, you know the rest...Don't You?)

It starts in 44 days...Brace yourself. Wake
won't win 3 ACC Games. You'll be lucky to win
2! Basketball has been down at FSU for 4 or
5 years, but we have talent. Kennedy was a
great recruiter...but couldn't coach! Starting
lineup of Ward, Sura, D Edwards, Cassel, all
1st round NBA picks and Doard who went to the
CBA. Robinson could coach...He proved that at
Tulsa, but he couldn't recruit.

Hamilton can do both. Kentucky and Miami.

Baseball...we've been to 25 straight NCAA's and 40
of the last 48 years. How 'bout you?

Academics...This is about MONEY! Always has been
and always will be. College Presidents, are the
most two-face of all"...The donors send the money
because of loyalty to schools...and that loyalty
revolves around Athletics. Get down off your
High Horse.

We want you in the league. We are always respected across the nation because of our Out of
Conference schedule. We don't play stiffs.
We don't have too. Our stiffs are built in...
Duke and Wake Forest!