flyingswoosh Wrote:All your idea does, is make kids not want to work.

Actually, many people positively enrich their lives this way. They discover something they love, like animals if they worked in an animal shelter. And many people enjoy the work so much that they continue it through the rest of their lives. Not everybody is turned away by this like you are.

cbfranchise3 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:All your idea does, is make kids not want to work.

Actually, many people positively enrich their lives this way. They discover something they love, like animals if they worked in an animal shelter. And many people enjoy the work so much that they continue it through the rest of their lives. Not everybody is turned away by this like you are.

i think i can honestly say that most people, especially teenagers, if forced to work would gain a negative image of work.

Ok here's something I don't agree with that's the case in Maryland Schools, if you go to a public school in Maryland and you do volunteer work before you enter the ninth grade and get the 75 hours they'll count that for community service but here's the catch you still have to do the second 75 hours for a grade and if you don't do complete it for whatever the reason you have the option of either completing it on your own or during your senior year taking a service a learning class where you complete. So tell me how is it fair that some people do 150 hours of work and others only do the 75. I'm like volunteering and helping out the community don't get me wrong but sometimes the projects to get the 75 hours are so pointless like in my class we had to make a book about being different and how it's ok and that's all we did. how is that service learning you make the books they grade them and hand them back.

BLAKESGIRL Wrote:Ok here's something I don't agree with that's the case in Maryland Schools, if you go to a public school in Maryland and you do volunteer work before you enter the ninth grade and get the 75 hours they'll count that for community service but here's the catch you still have to do the second 75 hours for a grade and if you don't do complete it for whatever the reason you have the option of either completing it on your own or during your senior year taking a service a learning class where you complete. So tell me how is it fair that some people do 150 hours of work and others only do the 75. I'm like volunteering and helping out the community don't get me wrong but sometimes the projects to get the 75 hours are so pointless like in my class we had to make a book about being different and how it's ok and that's all we did. how is that service learning you make the books they grade them and hand them back.

that proves that this service learning crap, should either be eliminated or undergo extreme reform.

this is the kind of thing that should happen if we decide to keep service learning:

<a href='http://www.nationalservice.org/partners/examples/schools.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nationalservice.org/partners/ex...es/schools.html</a>

not all community service is voluntary, and as Jenibu said, removing voluntary from it would remove all argument.

I don't agree with forcing someone to volunteer work, There is nothing better than seeing a community or group of people come together because they want, not because they have to. T_Monay, if your mom forced you to house chores when you were younger(I have no idea how old you are) but allowed you to choose which chores you wanted to do, are you then volunteering to to do house chores??

from dictionary.com

Quote:community service
n.

&nbsp; 1. Services volunteered by individuals or an organization to benefit a community or its institutions.
&nbsp; 2. Similar work performed by law offenders to serve a sentence in lieu of or in addition to jail time.

I will agree that community service should in no way be required to graduate from school. As a kid in catholic school, i was required to earn X amount of community service hours in order to go through confirmation. I ended up doing BS work because I didnt really want to do the hours, nor did I have any places I was actually interested in working at.
Then, in high school, we were NOT required to do community service at all, yet amazingly, we had one of the best community service programs in the city. I actually found myself doing work because I WANTED to, and not because it was required. I got so much more out of it, and actually learned a thing or two.
Now, I'm in college, and although service is not required to graduate, I am on a scholarship that requires 30 hours of community service along with keeping good grades. I'm having trouble reaching that mark, and havent been able to do service that I really enjoy.

Back in the day..............

If you wanted to do service work you joined one of the many service oriented clubs at school, like the Key club, DECA, FFA, Beta Club if you WANTED to do this type of community service.

Before then you could join the Boy/Girl Scouts.

Don't call it volunteer work if it ain't, that cheapens the whole concept of volunteerism.

Make it a required course if need be........but don't call it volunteering.

It's not for everyone.

doh

bearcatgirl Wrote:I will agree that community service should in no way be required to graduate from school. As a kid in catholic school, i was required to earn X amount of community service hours in order to go through confirmation. I ended up doing BS work because I didnt really want to do the hours, nor did I have any places I was actually interested in working at.

Not to get off on a tangent, but it's a shame with your average "religious school" "educates" you with now adays.

In high school, I had a teaching assistant from Bob Jones University. I felt sorry for the crap pushed upon him that he blindly accepted.

Q: What do you uhh... do... for FUN at Bob Jones?
A: Well... sometimes they have meetings in the gym and serve Kool-Aid.


..... Bet he's prepared for the job market.

I can see both sides of this.

flyingswoosh asked what the point of school was supposed to be. Well, the ultimate goal of school is to enrich the lives of the students -- so that they'll turn around and enrich the world with what they've learned.

Looking at it that way, mandatory community service is no different from a required math class or English class. Some folks have said that ended up resenting the community service because it was forced upon them. Well, that's really no different from how I resented reading books in English class because I was forced to read them. Only when I could choose what I wanted to read and didn't feel someone breathing down my neck about it could I relax and enjoy what I was reading.

It does teach a valuable lesson about interacting with the world and helping those around us. Whether students choose to learn from that is their own choice. It's the same choice they have when it comes to anything else they're taught at school.

On the other hand, I will agree with those who say that it means more when you choose to volunteer of your own accord. I think it cheapens the meaning a bit when you do something like that because you're forced to do it. So, it wouldn't kill me to see the requirement done away with. But, it also wouldn't kill me to see schools do away with a PE requirement or a foreign language requirement or a math requirement or a dozen other requirements.

That's not to say that I don't want to see healthy and intelligent people in the world -- I do. But, I also want to see community-conscious people who are active in the world around them. That's why I don't see much of a difference from anything else required at school.

-JD

JD Heel Wrote:I can see both sides of this.

flyingswoosh asked what the point of school was supposed to be. Well, the ultimate goal of school is to enrich the lives of the students -- so that they'll turn around and enrich the world with what they've learned.

Looking at it that way, mandatory community service is no different from a required math class or English class. Some folks have said that ended up resenting the community service because it was forced upon them. Well, that's really no different from how I resented reading books in English class because I was forced to read them. Only when I could choose what I wanted to read and didn't feel someone breathing down my neck about it could I relax and enjoy what I was reading.

It does teach a valuable lesson about interacting with the world and helping those around us. Whether students choose to learn from that is their own choice. It's the same choice they have when it comes to anything else they're taught at school.

On the other hand, I will agree with those who say that it means more when you choose to volunteer of your own accord. I think it cheapens the meaning a bit when you do something like that because you're forced to do it. So, it wouldn't kill me to see the requirement done away with. But, it also wouldn't kill me to see schools do away with a PE requirement or a foreign language requirement or a math requirement or a dozen other requirements.

That's not to say that I don't want to see healthy and intelligent people in the world -- I do. But, I also want to see community-conscious people who are active in the world around them. That's why I don't see much of a difference from anything else required at school.

-JD

one flaw in your post is that these english, math and PE classes are only to help yourself. They are designed to help each individual student. Mandatory "service learning" is supposed to be an act done for another person or group of persons. So, when the schools make you take english, they do it so you can help someone else. mandatory "service learning" is the act of making someone help someone else.

Some things in life you're not going to like, but you have to do them. There is no reason to complain about the subject, especially when its likely that it won't change. This is just one of those things that you just do.

hoops13 Wrote:Some things in life you're not going to like, but you have to do them. There is no reason to complain about the subject, especially when its likely that it won't change. This is just one of those things that you just do.

Wow. No offensive but that's an awfully sheepish attitude to have with government (yes, public institutions funded by taxpayers are considered government).

Would you like the dean/principal to hold your hand and point in the voting booth for you?

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

hoops13 Wrote:Some things in life you're not going to like, but you have to do them. There is no reason to complain about the subject, especially when its likely that it won't change. This is just one of those things that you just do.

Wow. No offensive but that's an awfully sheepish attitude to have with government (yes, public institutions funded by taxpayers are considered government).

Would you like the dean/principal to hold your hand and point in the voting booth for you?

well said.

Whatever, the requirement to graduate it 50 hours. I have 150+ volunteer hours.

hoops13 Wrote:Whatever, the requirement to graduate it 50 hours. I have 150+ volunteer hours.

i have my hours, too. But for me it's the principle of the matter.

flyingswoosh Wrote:one flaw in your post is that these english, math and PE classes are only to help yourself. They are designed to help each individual student. Mandatory "service learning" is supposed to be an act done for another person or group of persons. So, when the schools make you take english, they do it so you can help someone else. mandatory "service learning" is the act of making someone help someone else.

I don't see how that's a flaw in my argument. I never said that I thought school was supposed to be only about helping the student. So, I don't really see how the fact that they help someone else in the process factors into the discussion at all.

The way the school system sees it, they're helping the students by making them help others. And, that's why I see it as much the same as any other school subject. Now, I'm not saying it necessarily does or doesn't help -- because, ultimately, that depends on the student.

But, likewise, it depends on the student as to whether it helps them that they're forcefed a book or a math requirement or a PE requirement. The student can just as easily get frustrated or bored with those and not get anything out of it. So, what's the difference?

-JD

JD Heel Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:one flaw in your post is that these english, math and PE classes are only to help yourself.&nbsp; They are designed to help each individual student.&nbsp; Mandatory "service learning" is supposed to be an act done for another person or group of persons.&nbsp; So, when the schools make you take english, they do it so you can help someone else.&nbsp; mandatory "service learning" is the act of making someone help someone else.

I don't see how that's a flaw in my argument. I never said that I thought school was supposed to be only about helping the student. So, I don't really see how the fact that they help someone else in the process factors into the discussion at all.

The way the school system sees it, they're helping the students by making them help others. And, that's why I see it as much the same as any other school subject. Now, I'm not saying it necessarily does or doesn't help -- because, ultimately, that depends on the student.

But, likewise, it depends on the student as to whether it helps them that they're forcefed a book or a math requirement or a PE requirement. The student can just as easily get frustrated or bored with those and not get anything out of it. So, what's the difference?

-JD

but it's obvious that the point of school, is for you to learn something for yourself. Mandatory community service is created in order to make students help others. So, whether school helps you or not, the point of it, is till different than mandatory service learning.

flyingswoosh Wrote:but it's obvious that the point of school, is for you to learn something for yourself.

I have to disagree with that. I think there's a little more to public schooling than just the giving the gift of learning for mere individual gain. The government wouldn't provide free schooling (at a pretty penny, too) unless they didn't want/expect for it to help society as a whole in the long run.

Now, of course education benefits individuals. But, it just so happens that by helping students individually, they are helping society as a whole.

It could be argued that mandatory community service requirement is just a more direct way doing that.

And, then, there's also the opinion of the school system that they're teaching students humility, community involvement, etc. with the whole requirement. So, they do feel like students are learning something for themselves. Whether they are or not is another matter (just like whether they learn in English class is another matter).

It's all semantics, maybe, when you break it down. But -- then again -- so is this entire discussion.

-JD

JD Heel Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:but it's obvious that the point of school, is for you to learn something for yourself.

I have to disagree with that. I think there's a little more to public schooling than just the giving the gift of learning for mere individual gain. The government wouldn't provide free schooling (at a pretty penny, too) unless they didn't want/expect for it to help society as a whole in the long run.

I agree. The whole point of school is and should be to make your community better, and school gives you the skills to do that. Work hours are a part of that.