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apocalypse dude Offline
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Post: #21
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NavyDoc69:
Apoc.

You really need to change your handle your ideals are very far off from your handle...

You should shoot for something more passive.

I would assoc. your handle with a very radical person and you my friend are no where near radical...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, thank you. I agree that my handle could create some misperceptions about me. It actually has. I chose it a long time ago while joining a New York Giants Message board. I did get some flack after 9-11 for the handle. Thankfully, people there realized I had used that handle way before 9-11. Its just a reference to an album I really like(my music tastes do wander into spaces which many would consider radical). It wasn't a real well thought out decision. I've just stuck w/ it since.

I've considered changing it to something more positive. Perhaps I should do so. I wonder if I can do this without changing my login.
05-28-2002 12:32 PM
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apocalypse dude Offline
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Post: #22
 
RickHeel,

I saw this on the cover of the times. Thought you might like it.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/03/science/03CLIM.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/03/science/03CLIM.html</a>

Climate Changing, U.S. Says in Report

In a stark shift for the Bush administration, the United States has sent a climate report to the United Nations detailing specific and far-reaching effects that it says global warming will inflict on the American environment.

In the report, the administration for the first time mostly blames human actions for recent global warming. It says the main culprit is the burning of fossil fuels that send heat-trapping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

But while the report says the United States will be substantially changed in the next few decades — "very likely" seeing the disruption of snow-fed water supplies, more stifling heat waves and the permanent disappearance of Rocky Mountain meadows and coastal marshes, for example — it does not propose any major shift in the administration's policy on greenhouse gases.

It recommends adapting to inevitable changes. It does not recommend making rapid reductions in greenhouse gases to limit warming, the approach favored by many environmental groups and countries that have accepted the Kyoto Protocol, a climate treaty written in the Clinton administration that was rejected by Mr. Bush.

The new document, "U.S. Climate Action Report 2002," strongly concludes that no matter what is done to cut emissions in the future, nothing can be done about the environmental consequences of several decades' worth of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases already in the atmosphere.

Its emphasis on adapting to the inevitable fits in neatly with the climate plan Mr. Bush announced in February. He called for voluntary measures that would allow gas emissions to continue to rise, with the goal of slowing the rate of growth.

Yet the new report's predictions present a sharp contrast to previous statements on climate change by the administration, which has always spoken in generalities and emphasized the need for much more research to resolve scientific questions.

The report, in fact, puts a substantial distance between the administration and companies that produce or, like automakers, depend on fossil fuels. Many companies and trade groups have continued to run publicity and lobbying campaigns questioning the validity of the science pointing to damaging results of global warming.

The distancing could be an effort to rebuild Mr. Bush's environmental credentials after a bruising stretch of defeats on stances that favor energy production over conservation, notably the failure to win a Senate vote opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to exploratory oil drilling.

But the report has alienated environmentalists, too. Late last week, after it was posted on the Web site of the Environmental Protection Agency, private environmental groups pounced on it, saying it pointed to a jarring disconnect between the administration's findings on the climate problem and its proposed solutions.

"The Bush administration now admits that global warming will change America's most unique wild places and wildlife forever," said Mark Van Putten, the president of the National Wildlife Federation, a private environmental group. "How can it acknowledge global warming is a disaster in the making and then refuse to help solve the problem, especially when solutions are so clear?"

Scott McClellan, a White House spokesman, said, "It is important to move forward on the president's strategies for addressing the challenge of climate change, and that's what we're continuing to do."

Many companies and trade groups had sought last year to tone down parts of the report, the third prepared by the United States under the requirements of a 1992 climate treaty but the first under President Bush.

For the most part, the document does not reflect industry's wishes, which were conveyed in letters during a period of public comment on a draft last year.

The report emphasizes that global warming carries potential benefits for the nation, including increased agricultural and forest growth from longer growing seasons, and from more rainfall and carbon dioxide for photosynthesis.

But it says environmental havoc is coming as well. "Some of the goods and services lost through the disappearance or fragmentation of natural ecosystems are likely to be costly or impossible to replace," the report says.

The report also warns of the substantial disruption of snow-fed water supplies, the loss of coastal and mountain ecosystems and more frequent heat waves. "A few ecosystems, such as alpine meadows in the Rocky Mountains and some barrier islands, are likely to disappear entirely in some areas," it says. "Other ecosystems, such as Southeastern forests, are likely to experience major species shifts or break up into a mosaic of grasslands, woodlands and forests."

Despite arguments by oil industry groups that the evidence is not yet clear, the report unambiguously states that humans are the likely cause of most of the recent warming. Phrases were adopted wholesale from a National Academy of Sciences climate study, which was requested last spring by the White House and concluded that the warming was a serious problem.

A government official familiar with the new report said that it had been under review at the White House from January until mid-April, but that few substantive changes were made.

Without a news release or announcement, the new report was shipped last week to the United Nations offices that administer the treaty and posted on the Web (http://www.epa .gov/globalwarming/publications /car/).

A senior administration official involved in climate policy played down the significance of the report, explaining that policies on emissions or international treaties would not change as a result.

Global warming has become a significant, if second-tier, political issue recently, particularly since James M. Jeffords, the Vermont independent, became chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee last year. Mr. Jeffords has criticized the president's policy.

The new report is the latest in a series on greenhouse gases, climate research, energy policies and related matters that are required of signatories to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which was signed by Mr. Bush's father and ratified by the Senate.

The convention lacks binding obligations to reduce gas emissions like those in the Kyoto Protocol.

Mr. Bush and administration officials had previously been careful to avoid specifics and couch their views on coming climate shifts with substantial caveats. The president and his aides often described climate change as a "serious issue," but rarely as a serious problem.

The report contains some caveats of its own, but states that the warming trend has been under way for several decades and is likely to continue.

"Because of the momentum in the climate system and natural climate variability, adapting to a changing climate is inevitable," the report says. "The question is whether we adapt poorly or well."

Several industry groups said the qualifications in parts of the report were welcome, but added that the overall message was still more dire than the facts justified and would confuse policy makers.

Dr. Russell O. Jones, a senior economist for the American Petroleum Institute who wrote a letter to the Environmental Protection Agency a year ago seeking to purge projections of specific environmental impacts from the report, said it was "frustrating" to see that they remained.

"Adding the caveats is useful, but the results are still as meaningless," Dr. Jones said.
06-03-2002 08:54 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #23
 
I saw that this morning. Wondered how long it would be before it was included in this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> I agree that something needs to be done, but I also think asking people to give up their cars will not happen in my lifetime. You see, the real answer is mass transit, IMHO. People will have to be forced to use it. That wont happen either. "You cant make me use it. You are infringing on my right to chose." And we could go on and on and on........
06-03-2002 10:32 AM
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apocalypse dude Offline
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Post: #24
 
The problem w/ mass transit is that the cities which were developed after the advent of the automobile are not equipped for this. In NYC, the vast majority of people rely on Mass transit.

This is due to a variety of factors. It is very expensive to keep a car in NYC. It is not time efficient to drive from place to place in NYC. It is a great walking city with great mass transit(well at least expedient and thorough). It is part of the culture of NYC to take a subway and walk.

The majority of newer cities do not have good mass transit systems. Even if they built them, they would not get used. I believe has happened in Atlanta. They built one in preparation for the summer olympics. I asked someone in my company about the train when I was down there for a visit a few years ago. I was told that nobody uses it.

Anyway, I advocate cleaner burning more fuel efficient cars. Furthermore, I advocate government incentives for producing, and buying these cars. This will be less burdensome on the public.
06-03-2002 10:44 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #25
 
I agree on the mass transit deal. But that will be the solution ultimately IMHO. It may be 100 years away, but I really think it will happen. Folks will not have the choice.

Anyway, I advocate cleaner burning more fuel efficient cars. Furthermore, I advocate government incentives for producing, and buying these cars. This will be less burdensome on the public.

That may be a solution, but who will end up paying the price? We will. Will we stand for it? I am not sure we will. Will we buy the cars which will have to be unsafe to drive because of the lack of weight? I will tell you one thing, I would not subject my kids to the dangers associated with a car that does not offer protection.
I would imagine the technology is available now to produce the engines. But if the automobile manufacturers were given the incentives to produce these automobiles, who would pay for that? We would. One way or another. I dont think that the average Joe would buy such a vehicle. We are a spoiled nation.
Something has to be done. I am in full agreement with you on that. I just think there is too much money spent on those folks who make the decisions, to see significant change any time soon. Politicians will be politicians. On both sides of the aisle.
06-03-2002 11:29 AM
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whos_your_dawgy Offline
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Post: #26
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rickheel:
Should we limit births too? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">YES!!! There are too many dumbasses running around as it is.

As a bumper sticker I once saw so elegantly put it: "The gene pool needs chlorine."
06-03-2002 03:11 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #27
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rickheel:
Swagger, what do the numbers at the bottom of your posts represent? The number 2 is present above.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It marked a post explosion of mine - urged by a few others comments <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

If you look hard enough - my posts go up to the 70's within a 90 minute timespan - none of it PPPP.
06-03-2002 03:20 PM
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p5mmr9 Offline
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Post: #28
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rickheel:
Will we buy the cars which will have to be unsafe to drive because of the lack of weight?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think this is the case. There are many ways to increase the fuel efficiency in an automobile. No one is advocating unsafe vehicles.

...and as supply and demand warrants, the overall cost of a vehicle would not sustain a dramatic rise if laws forced all companies to comply with certain fuel efficiency standards. Those vehicles produced for mass consumption deemed too expensive by the general public would either be retooled and re-priced or they would be discontinued by the manufacturer.
06-04-2002 11:36 AM
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