frogman Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

Smokin Pirate Wrote:MT is a basketball man and will always be that. He's going to look after the BB side of things first and foremost. It's sad that the FB schools have to help finance the BB only schools but that's MT at his best.

The football schools aren't financing the basketball schools. They do that themselves, since they don't share in any of the football revenue.

Interesting look at Basketball vs Football Revenue and the "per share" each school gets:

On the football side, arguably, the Big East managed to do okay in the short term. Especially considering they had to drop to eight teams -- and lacked marquee names.

The basketball side, however, may reveal a bigger problem.

In the last reporting period, Big East basketball took in $34,492,992. Split 16 ways, the average take was $2,155,812. Big East football, meanwhile, took in $28,400,000. Split eight ways, that average take was $3,550,000. The difference was a mere $1,394,188.

Sixteen teams makes the split much smaller. Even with the Big East's latest TV deal that begins next year, the basketball side of things would seem to have too many hands in the jar to create significant revenue increases per member school. That means the relative take for each school remains fairly flat.

Big East finances reveal rocky times of late
http://sundaygazettemail.com/webtools/pr...2007052621

I think the writer of the article messed up the quote on a "mere $1,394,188." Actually the FB school revenue was $3,550,000 plus $2,155,812 they all got for BB.
NOw that our FB is quality lets see some money BE!

If you read the link in full, the bolded paragraph shows how much more $$$ the Football programs earned on top of their hoop money.

chrisRU Wrote:If Temple wanted to leave the A-10 to become a full Big East member, why didn't they do that in the 90's? I would think the Big East would not mind having Temple on their BB roster.

So, I was under the impression Temple was happy playing BB in the A-10. Is this not correct?

BTW, if Temple replaced ND and was a full member, it would throw the conference out of BB/FB balance, which seems to be something that is key to the BB schools since the BE reorganized.

Answer = Villanova. Which is why, IF there is a split, Nova is out of the way and Temple brings the market.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Mike Tranghese did not say anything in that interview which is not true at this point in time. People seem to keep forgetting that it is his job to put up a united front and tell the world that everything is perfect in the Big East Conference. Not doing this would be a real reason to call for his dismissal.

I personally think, and have communicated to him, that the best way to keep the hybrid together, if that is really the long term goal, is to expand to 18 with one more football member and one more basketball member but he never mentions this idea because everyone gets hung up on the number.

Exactly, Tranghese should be fired if he's orchestrating a split which would hurt the basketball schools. A split has to come from the football presidents, and so far they don't seem too interested.

CatsClaw1 Wrote:In the University of Cincinnati student paper:

http://media.www.newsrecord.org/media/st...3353.shtml

Q: Is there any thought to adding one more football team to the Big East?

MT: "I think our directors would like to add one more football team but I don't think there's much support for it because I don't think there's a team out there that can make our league better. Plus, people will tread softly because we are 16 [teams] in all other sports and going to 17 is a huge logistical problem when you get to basketball, huge problem."

Also, when someone brought up a championship game, he mentioned that the Big East would have to expand to 20 to get that game. That tells me that in order for the Big East to split, Tranghese has to be gone.

I agree with MT, there just aren't many good teams that are going to elevate the league in a worthwhile manner to merit their inclusion. The only program I see that would fit, is ECU b/c they have a good fanbase and are on the rise, despite some of their whiny fans. They make good geographic sense and have some nice history with most BE football schools.

UCF -- nice facilities, but nothing that is better than most big east schoosl. Fanbase is unproven as compared to ECU, plus their administration has burned a lot of bridges.

Memphis -- would only be a good addition if the league splits and it needs to add to the basketball side of the ledger. Football has been terrible for most of the last 25 years.

KnightLight Wrote:

frogman Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

Smokin Pirate Wrote:MT is a basketball man and will always be that. He's going to look after the BB side of things first and foremost. It's sad that the FB schools have to help finance the BB only schools but that's MT at his best.

The football schools aren't financing the basketball schools. They do that themselves, since they don't share in any of the football revenue.

Interesting look at Basketball vs Football Revenue and the "per share" each school gets:

On the football side, arguably, the Big East managed to do okay in the short term. Especially considering they had to drop to eight teams -- and lacked marquee names.

The basketball side, however, may reveal a bigger problem.

In the last reporting period, Big East basketball took in $34,492,992. Split 16 ways, the average take was $2,155,812. Big East football, meanwhile, took in $28,400,000. Split eight ways, that average take was $3,550,000. The difference was a mere $1,394,188.

Sixteen teams makes the split much smaller. Even with the Big East's latest TV deal that begins next year, the basketball side of things would seem to have too many hands in the jar to create significant revenue increases per member school. That means the relative take for each school remains fairly flat.

Big East finances reveal rocky times of late
http://sundaygazettemail.com/webtools/pr...2007052621

I think the writer of the article messed up the quote on a "mere $1,394,188." Actually the FB school revenue was $3,550,000 plus $2,155,812 they all got for BB.
NOw that our FB is quality lets see some money BE!

If you read the link in full, the bolded paragraph shows how much more $$$ the Football programs earned on top of their hoop money.

That is under the old Big East contract. The new contract kicks in next season.

BJUnklFkr Wrote:Smoke, there are only one or two ECU posters, who like to run down UC and/or USF every chance they get, that I can do without. Strangely, I haven't seen them this season But the rest of the Pirate nation is more than welcome here as far as I'm concerned.

As for Miami, I believe they didn't like the "hybrid" thing, and I think they resented the special treatment of ND. Of course, it might be just an excuse to mask their high travel costs. Maybe a lot of the long-timers can answer more completely than I can.

I think it was the kowtowing to ND and the Catholic interests that irritated Miami most. Their emphasis has always been football, and that has never been The BEast's focus.

the article clearly states in the beginning that the football members averaged $5,842,599 per football school. this number will obviously rise when the new contract kicks in and we should be higher than where we were before the raid.

CyberBull Wrote:I agree with MT, there just aren't many good teams that are going to elevate the league in a worthwhile manner to merit their inclusion. The only program I see that would fit, is ECU b/c they have a good fanbase and are on the rise, despite some of their whiny fans. They make good geographic sense and have some nice history with most BE football schools.

UCF -- nice facilities, but nothing that is better than most big east schoosl. Fanbase is unproven as compared to ECU, plus their administration has burned a lot of bridges.

Memphis -- would only be a good addition if the league splits and it needs to add to the basketball side of the ledger. Football has been terrible for most of the last 25 years.

MT knows UCF is waiting for the ACC or SEC invite! He doesn't want to look like a fool.

I think people give Tranghese a bad rap. He tried to resign when the league looked like it was going to split to avoid taking the side of one faction or another. He is doing what they are paying him to do, which is look after the best interests of the conference as it is currently configured.

This in no way exonerates him for being asleep at the switch prior to the raid, but he is doing a good job of managing the monstrosity this conference is. He is working with chicken scratch, so don't expect chicken salad.

zibby Wrote:Poor Wilkie. I hope he doesn't see this. This news just might kill him. Gosh, what are we going to do without his weekly expansion thread?

The contract date to split without penalty is 2010. MT is hoping the football schools do not take the option in 2010.

Wilkie01 Wrote:The contract date to split without penalty is 2010. MT is hoping the football schools do not take the option in 2010.

Split will happen in 2010. I don't see any reason for the FB schools to stay with BB schools other than the BE tournament. Even that, it can be changed if FB schools can't land MSG. I think it would be great for FB schools to add 1 member and do home-and-home in basketball too.

The only way we don't split in 2010 is if the BB schools give an extension on the leave with everything and no penalty clause. They might extend that to 2013, but I doubt it. If they do that, then the bargaining power of the BB schools is still poor after 2013. 2010 looks good now. The BB schools have a resurgent Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova to give them legitimacy and bargaining clout.

I think an extension is likely... its good for both sides.. if that happens a split will never happen.. School Prez are not big on stepping out of the box.. they already are getting used to the current mix.. if they delay the split till..2013...they will have enjoyed the confort zone of the current mix for 7 or 8 years.. they won't vote for a change.. Its much like the BCS vs Playoff thing.. as long as they are taking in good $$$$$ they will not give much thought to changing the system.. they are creatures of the system.. thats why they stayed in college their whole lives.. students.. to teachers.. to administrators... to... prez... its a natural climbing of the latter within the comfort zone that most of them reside and work in.

-- IMO expanding the BE tourney was a step away from the split, not towards one

-- If it does happen, I am on board with the Krocker/Maize plan of UCF and Temple. However, it depends on how forsighted the presidents are. Going in that direction may mean less football money in the short run because we are going to have two more BCS mouths to feed and TU and UCF probably aren't going to add a lot to the TV contract right now

Would you give up money now in return for the possibility of having a much stronger league in the future??

Jackson

I don't care who we add as long as we do split....we need an all sports conference just like EVERY other BCS conference and I'm tired of 16 basketball teams in one conference, it's stupid.

And no offence to Gtown, MU, Nova, etc.....I root for them now and love thier programs but we are on different paths and a split is in the best interest of everybody.

In a few years it would be nice to see Penn St. come back to the Northeast and be that 9th member but that probably won't happen....but that would be my vote.

There is no doubt in my mind that Memphis, ECU, or UCF would bring as much to Big East as did Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida in terms of football. For Memphis, ECU, and UCF, it is probably a question of bad timing. These three schools, had they been a little further along with their football programs, might be in BE.

I disagree with BE Commish that there are no schools out there equivalent to BE schools. I think what he really means is that there is nothing to gain with another football member as BE has BCS status, marvelous bowl tie ins that will probably even get better, a great football tv contract, and America's #1 basketball conference and basketball tv contract. Just what does a 9th BE member bring to the table...that BE doesn't already have?

As a CUSA fan, I hope we can retain our current membership and work to improve our sports programs. Football was just horrendous this year, a year I hoped we would turn it around. Maybe basketball will give us that spark...that the conference really, really needs right now.

Re-reading Commish Tranghese remarks, he uses the term that there is no football team out there that is "better." So he is using the term "better" rather than say "equivalent." So, I misread his remarks and perhaps that is the key to adding a 9th member...the 9th team must be "better" than what BE has now. That works against UCF, ECU, and Memphis which I certainly regard as the equivalent.

Fact is, there is never going to be a team available that is "better" than the Big East's teams - in the eyes of the Big East......why in the world would anyone EVER admit something like that....???

As far as making the league "better", that is also as subjective a statement as anyone can make.....I think there are quite a few schools out there that could make the Big East "better" in some way or another.....

If a split happens, and (a) team(s) added, it will be because of the problems current members are focused on now.....NO team will ever be a "perfect" fit, and continual statements like the one MT made are no more than a an arm's length "shut up" to those asking the questions.....

A little reading comprehension is in order here. This is what MT said:

I think our directors would like to add one more football team but I don't think there's much support for it because I don't think there's a team out there that can make our league better.

He did not say there is not a team out there that is better than the BE teams. He said nothing about being equivilent. He said there is no one out there that will make our league better. Its true to a point. Louisville, when they came to the BE, it instantly made the BE a better fb league.

Memphis would make our league a little better in bb, but then again, it goes without saying that we dont need any more bb schools. They would add nothing in fb.
Neither ECU or UCF would make our league instantly better in fb. And both programs add nothing to basketball. Niether program in question would add significant revenue increases, or significant exposure increases, if any.

Now I do believe that if ECU and UCF and to a lesser degree, Memphis, were given bcs status and an opportunity to recruit at that level over several years could certainly make the BE better in football, similar to the way Cincy and USF made the BE better. There is no question about that.
So I agree that there is no one out there that would make our league better the instant that they started playing fb in the BE, but I do believe that the programs in question could eventually make the BE league better.

cuseroc Wrote:A little reading comprehension is in order here. This is what MT said:

I think our directors would like to add one more football team but I don't think there's much support for it because I don't think there's a team out there that can make our league better.

He did not say there is not a team out there that is better than the BE teams. He said nothing about being equivilent. He said there is no one out there that will make our league better. Its true to a point. Louisville, when they came to the BE, it instantly made the BE a better fb league.

Memphis would make our league a little better in bb, but then again, it goes without saying that we dont need any more bb schools. They would add nothing in fb.
Neither ECU or UCF would make our league instantly better in fb. And both programs add nothing to basketball. Niether program in question would add significant revenue increases, or significant exposure increases, if any.

Now I do believe that if ECU and UCF and to a lesser degree, Memphis, were given bcs status and an opportunity to recruit at that level over several years could certainly make the BE better in football, similar to the way Cincy and USF made the BE better. There is no question about that.
So I agree that there is no one out there that would make our league better the instant that they started playing fb in the BE, but I do believe that the programs in question could eventually make the BE league better.

agree completely, however when the big east added cincy and usf it was need based. the situation is different and we've for the most part stabilized the perception of the league. so we're in a position where we can be more selective about who to add if we ever decide to split and make no mistake we will not split to add a team that only fills out the schedule. there's risk associated to splitting the conference not to mention the longstanding ties that have developed, we need to have better options than what we have now, to make that risk acceptable. especially since so far, tournament bids and scheduling aside, the big east has been more successful than most people thought.