Let's face it, if the BE hadn't been raided, USF and Cincy would have never gotten in, and possibly Louisville. Let's face another fact, once you are in, you don't want to let everyone in the exclusive club, it takes away you're advantages. Not saying that is fair, just the way it is. I really don't see any reason to add 4 CUSA types to the BE. Sorry if I offended anyone with the CDOA remark, there were a couple good teams last year, Tulsa has a great Offense and UCF had a good year. The BE was FORCED to add UC and USF to survive last go around. Unless there is another raid, there really is no reason to split the pie another way, or 2-4 more ways. However, I have said, if someone east of the Mississippi consistently pulls a Boise State, then think about adding them. The onus is on the teams wanting in to prove they add something to the BE.

Oh, and about USF being a .500 team in CUSA, that just happend to coincide with USF's WORST TEAM EVER. The 02 team (year before joining cusa) would have won cusa hands down. That team was unstoppable on offense and blew out 4 cusa teams, on it's way to a 9-2 mark and 4-0 against cusa. The only 2 losses were to ark. and a fairly close loss to Oklahoma. that team got usf noticed and in the BE. usf was only in cusa 2 yrs and it just happened to coincide with the by far worst team we have had in our (brief) history (the 04 team). Our 02 team would have won cusa, anyone who don't believe that, go back and look at our stats and scoreboard from that year.

CatsClaw Wrote:First off, me saying there was "whining" is a strong term, I apologize for that. I have to say though, you're arguing with the wrong person because I have been a huge advocate for Memphis and East Carolina getting into the Big East.

Thank you for your endorsement, Catclaw. I am not trying to agrue, just trying to make a point. I know all Tiger fans thank you for your support to the big east.

It's hard to say whether South Florida would have won C-USA that year (that was the year that Cincinnati and TCU won the conference). TCU finished the season ranked and Cincinnati almost beat West Virginia, who went on to go to the Gator Bowl, and Ohio State, who went on to win the national title. And USF only beat Memphis and Southern Miss by 3 that year. USF blew out ECU and Houston though. That being said, South Florida has been, consistently a good team since being invited to Conference USA and, evnetually, the Big East.

gdayre Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:First off, me saying there was "whining" is a strong term, I apologize for that. I have to say though, you're arguing with the wrong person because I have been a huge advocate for Memphis and East Carolina getting into the Big East.

Thank you for your endorsement, Catclaw. I am not trying to agrue, just trying to make a point. I know all Tiger fans thank you for your support to the big east.

I still want to wait and see because I still think this is more Tranghese trying to protect the basketball schools then anything else.

CatsClaw Wrote:It's hard to say whether South Florida would have won C-USA that year (that was the year that Cincinnati and TCU won the conference). TCU finished the season ranked and Cincinnati almost beat West Virginia, who went on to go to the Gator Bowl, and Ohio State, who went on to win the national title. And USF only beat Memphis and Southern Miss by 3 that year. USF blew out ECU and Houston though. That being said, South Florida has been, consistently a good team since being invited to Conference USA and, evnetually, the Big East.

Ok, so USF didn't blow everyone out that year. It just seemed like that team had a lot of blowout wins, but maybe that was just in my revisionist history mind. I still contend USF would have won CUSA that year (they were already 4-0 against CUSA competition). I believe that team also blew out Urban Meyer's top 25 Bowling Green team. Oh, and Cincy "stole" our bowl bid that year by winning the last game. (we had a conditional bowl bid from CUSA, if cincy lost, since we were becoming a member the following year)

I think many of you are misunderstanding the situation. It's not a matter of being good enough for the Big East. It's a matter of nobody else competing for your services. The Big East can keep you CUSA/MAC guys dangling forever, they don't need to make a move. Their BCS status has been re-affirmed. Memphis and UCF have a lot of potential, but they're out of sight, out of mind in that Texas league they play in. They can't hurt the Big East from there, and nobody else is making any noise about taking them before the BE has a chance to. I think there's a good chance Memphis/UCF would pull their weight and make a 1/9th or 1/10th share of the TV revenue just as good as the current 1/8th share the football members have, but why would the BE footballers bother taking the risk? Why upset the situation they have now, and go through all the trouble of setting up a new conference, creating a new brand name, negotiating new deals, etc., just to add another reasonably equal partner or two? The only immediate benefit is scheduling, and for that they can just cut that rumored deal with Army and Navy without adding them to the conference. It's not like most CUSA and MAC programs would turn down non-conference home-and-homes with Big East opponents anyway. So scheduling alone isn't a good enough reason to add a CUSAMAC program.

The conference landscape is going to have to change significantly before the Big East considers adding a member who isn't already part of a BCS conference. Another series of raids will have to create an upheaval. Other than that, the closest thing anyone can do to putting pressure on the Big East is to create a new conference in their backyard. Gather the 8-10 best and brightest from the eastern CUSA, MAC, Independents and FCS under one banner, and start competing with the Big East for TV money in their own markets. THEN they'd want to raid you, because doing that would hurt a competitor for TV dollars. They don't give a damn about Texas League, the CUSA affects their market value about as much as the WAC.

knight87 Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:

knight87 Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Tranghese said that the new commissioner will certainly have to continue to search for a ninth football member that makes sense, but he said it isn't likely to happen anytime soon because there aren't any teams out there that would "make the Big East better."

-- from where I'm sitting...that means not adding current CUSA school(s)...

Jackson

This statement is ridiculous. Several folks say, "no team from CUSA or MAC or other non-BCS conferences are viable candidates". What a joke. During the last expansion, when the BE was raided, Cinci, UCONN, and USF were not "quality candidates. What did they add at that time? I would say that Cinci and UCONN added in basketball. USF wasn't even in the top of CUSA. They only added the link to Florida.

Several schools are great candidates. Once the BCS tag is on them, perception and play will improve. USF and Cinci are now contenders in the BE, due to the BCS affiliation. USF is tops in the Conference.

Any team in the lengthy list of candidates would do well if invited to ANY BCS conference.

They can't remember back that far. USF and Cincy have always been perinnial(sp?) rank national powers in their minds

You are so amusing. I remember when people like were saying that Cincinnati and South Florida would drag the Big East down and that the Big East was begging if they thought that Cincinnati and South Florida would make them a BCS conference. 5 years later you're whining because South Florida and Cincinnati are ranked programs.

Your logic is skewed. Cinci and USF improved because of the BE and it's BCS tag. That's it. Most of the other expansion candidates would do the same or better.

I haven't seen any whining, just discussion.

USF and Cincy would have been in the BCS every year no matter what conference they were in. These were programs on the rise.

ultimately, if Temple can put together a couple 7-5 seasons and at least get 25k to the Linc, I think they'd punch their own ticket. They are the obvious football-only choice. They are content in the A-10 for other sports, and they have a history w/ the BE. They are familiar to all the old BE teams' fans. Geographically they are obviously the most logical choice, and if it appears the team is heading in the right direction their visibility will increase in Philly.

Let's face it - remember how Rutgers exploded with excitement when they were finally bowl eligible? If Temple starts to get respectable, then Owl fans will crawl out of the woodwork.

Of course, there is a huge problem with this.....

Temple would have to get respectable.

... might be a long wait.

wvucrazed Wrote:ultimately, if Temple can put together a couple 7-5 seasons and at least get 25k to the Linc, I think they'd punch their own ticket. They are the obvious football-only choice. They are content in the A-10 for other sports, and they have a history w/ the BE. They are familiar to all the old BE teams' fans. Geographically they are obviously the most logical choice, and if it appears the team is heading in the right direction their visibility will increase in Philly.

Let's face it - remember how Rutgers exploded with excitement when they were finally bowl eligible? If Temple starts to get respectable, then Owl fans will crawl out of the woodwork.

Of course, there is a huge problem with this.....

Temple would have to get respectable.

... might be a long wait.

Temple has 22 returning starters...if they don't show vast improvement now...it ain't gonna happen.

knight87 Wrote:

PirateMarv Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

3601 Wrote:It's funny how quickly things can change in college football. Watch UCF go 14-0 or watch Memphis or ECU go 12-2 and see what happens.

I doubt that will change anything. We'll see, but I really think the Big East presidents are looking for the perfect fit (strong athletics, strong academics, perfect fit). Last time the Big East expanded with their backs against the wall. This time the Big East holds all the cards.

Claw,

That would be Boston College. Now the question is, can the BE woo Boston College back.

The BE should let Boston College back in. I am sure they would jump at the opportunity to come back. The BE should also pull Virginia, Maryland, and Notre Dame in. Virginia and Maryland would jump if offered to leave the ACC for the BE. Notre Dame should wake up and take the deal.

What the shard are you talking about!?!?!?!?!!? Um, no they would not jump if offered to leave.

Wilkie01 Wrote:If were picking:

Memphis for 9.

Memphis and UCF for 10.

Memphis, UCF, ECU and Temple for 12.

After Memphis it gets very meh. I can see the point in bringing them in right now to balance the schedules. In fact id love that decision. However, if there is any plans to go past 9, which there shouldnt be, we should just wait until any elite teams want to jump over. Sit at 9, and if for any chance Notre Dame, Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, or Penn State ever want to join welcome them with open arms. If not, theres no reason to start bringing in teams that offer nothing to us like UCF, Ecu, or Temple.

LastMinuteman Wrote:I think many of you are misunderstanding the situation. It's not a matter of being good enough for the Big East. It's a matter of nobody else competing for your services. The Big East can keep you CUSA/MAC guys dangling forever, they don't need to make a move. Their BCS status has been re-affirmed. Memphis and UCF have a lot of potential, but they're out of sight, out of mind in that Texas league they play in. They can't hurt the Big East from there, and nobody else is making any noise about taking them before the BE has a chance to. I think there's a good chance Memphis/UCF would pull their weight and make a 1/9th or 1/10th share of the TV revenue just as good as the current 1/8th share the football members have, but why would the BE footballers bother taking the risk? Why upset the situation they have now, and go through all the trouble of setting up a new conference, creating a new brand name, negotiating new deals, etc., just to add another reasonably equal partner or two? The only immediate benefit is scheduling, and for that they can just cut that rumored deal with Army and Navy without adding them to the conference. It's not like most CUSA and MAC programs would turn down non-conference home-and-homes with Big East opponents anyway. So scheduling alone isn't a good enough reason to add a CUSAMAC program.

The conference landscape is going to have to change significantly before the Big East considers adding a member who isn't already part of a BCS conference. Another series of raids will have to create an upheaval. Other than that, the closest thing anyone can do to putting pressure on the Big East is to create a new conference in their backyard. Gather the 8-10 best and brightest from the eastern CUSA, MAC, Independents and FCS under one banner, and start competing with the Big East for TV money in their own markets. THEN they'd want to raid you, because doing that would hurt a competitor for TV dollars. They don't give a damn about Texas League, the CUSA affects their market value about as much as the WAC.

Good post.

I say Temple fits best for a football only. I think the things that help are the market, the new administration and the golden boy. Give him a BCS tag and he might be Schiano II.

We have discussed this new conference idea before and you know it only needs a leader. Maybe Golden could help get something rolling?

With Mike gone, we're heading for a split. Mike just doesn't know it yet. He's been here since 1979 and he's got a lot of friends on both sides, they respect him and they tell him what he wants to hear. They appreciate his work so far but no one can honestly give one good reason why the BE should not split.

It's Mike's baby since 1979- he's fought for the BE and he loves the BE. He's kept it together but once he's gone- he's gone. The newest BE members will not be loyal to Mike's vision of a BB/FB half-and-half conference. The BB schools will be fine and maybe even better off adding four more BB-only schools and the FB schools need to add new members. Half member crap has never worked.

The FB schools are going to have to bring in more southern members and why would the BB schools want to travel south- they don't need to recruit BB from the south.

A house divided cannot stand. We have clearly different interests and we're not going to be sitting at the table fighting for too long when splitting is the better option. UofL, Cincy, USF should be in favor of split and we only need one more FB to make it 50 percent. We'd probably get four of the remaining five at least to vote in favor of a split once Mike has packed his bags.

They only reason we have to stay together is sentimental. The CUSA nubies don't share that sentiment and neither do some of the old guard.

Four years ago there was "nobody out there who could make us better." "There's no Miami out there." We heard it all before. The truth is UofL, CIncy, USF and UCONN were out there and they did make us better. Plus we got better on own own with WVU and Rutgers. I know Memphis is hungry. You have to give someone a chance to make us better.

I like the idea of adding non-BCS members. That has worked out real well for us last time around. I think the non-BCS we add in the south will be better than most ACC BCS teams. Who we add up north will be better than Maryland and BC.

I once said USF would be better than Miami and FSU and got laughed off these boards. USF still has work to do but nobody's laughing anymore.

I believe the minute Mike walks out the door the main topic in the conference is about splitting. There no way a conference can be serious about BCS FB and, sit at the table and have to address the concerns of eight members who don't even play BCS FB.

Mike has been great at building the BE but when he retires his FB\BB vision retires with him-IMHO.

It may not happen right away but slowly it will sink in. The main reason the schools stuck together last time was because MT sold the football schools on the idea that staying together would help in maintaining a power basketball league image that would help in keeping the BCS football tag. NOw that it has been safely accomplished, the next point to be addressed is the football expansion candidates and the current set up makes it close to impossible for that to happen.
When the real big money is comming from the football side then the size of the basketball league really hurts because you are dividing that pie by more mouths.
I would be sueprised if the football schools have not cranked out financial numbers on a split.
Time will tell.

I believe that a split is coming too. I think the "get out of jail" card will have to be extended or it coming sooner than later. I dont see the fb letting this past, it would cost them to much money later on down the line. That is what the fb school has over the bb schools.

frogman Wrote:I think the non-BCS we add in the south will be better than most ACC BCS teams. Who we add up north will be better than Maryland and BC.

What are you basing this on? There is no evidence to suggest that Memphis, ECU or UCF could be better in the longterm than any ACC squad save Duke. It's not popular to point out BC's strengths on this board, but who cares...they were ranked as high as #2 in the nation last year. It seems laughable to think that Temple will be better than Maryland & BC if they were added to the Big East. Pure conjecture.

knight87 Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Tranghese said that the new commissioner will certainly have to continue to search for a ninth football member that makes sense, but he said it isn't likely to happen anytime soon because there aren't any teams out there that would "make the Big East better."

-- from where I'm sitting...that means not adding current CUSA school(s)...

Jackson

This statement is ridiculous. Several folks say, "no team from CUSA or MAC or other non-BCS conferences are viable candidates". What a joke. During the last expansion, when the BE was raided, Cinci, UCONN, and USF were not "quality candidates. What did they add at that time? I would say that Cinci and UCONN added in basketball. USF wasn't even in the top of CUSA. They only added the link to Florida.

Several schools are great candidates. Once the BCS tag is on them, perception and play will improve. USF and Cinci are now contenders in the BE, due to the BCS affiliation. USF is tops in the Conference.

Any team in the lengthy list of candidates would do well if invited to ANY BCS conference.

-- There is a difference in being forced into expansion for survival and expanding to increase revenue. All of the schools you mentioned fall into the first category. None of the schools currently in CUSA/MAC are able fall into the second category at this time. I don't see a ridiculous angle to that line of thinking at all

-- For the pro-split crowd. I would suggest that both the football and bball contracts will be in line to go up again during the next round of negotiations. The basketball side especially because from the reports many of us have read, we traded $$s for exposure during the current deal. That shouldn't be necessary the next time around. Don't be so quick to kill the cash cow

Jackson

1. If I were the new Big East commish I would do everything I can to try to reconcile with BC. I've got to believe that if BC could have been certain that the Big East was going to keep their BCS status and knew that Syracuse was staying, they would have never left. Add increased fuel and travel costs and I've got to believe that they would at least consider a return.

2. I find it hard to believe that the football schools plus BC and/or UCF and/or ECU and/or Memphis couldn't make more money per school on their own TV deal if they split.

IMO - and I am EXTREMELY biased here - but ECU, Memphis, and UCF would be solid pick-ups for the Big East. ECU - solid football and basketball is on firmer ground now. Memphis - well, you know the deal with them. UCF - pretty solid in all sports (can't believe I am giving them props - but I am trying to be unbiased as possible). All would work out well IMO, in the long run.

Memphis - bball and the liberty bowl
ECU - crazy fanbase and putting alot of money into athletic facilities. Bball will improve under McCarthy. Solid baseball (yes, I used baseball)
UCF - good fanbase, good athletic facilities, in Orlando, pretty solid in athletics.

Add the BcS tag to any of them and they will do good.

Of course - I would love to see the BE stake a claim in NC, in a state full of ACC teams. The ACC would hate the hell out of that. There has been talk that ECU could get Pepsi as a sponsor - since the ACC has Coke. Pure speculation though.

3601 Wrote:1. If I were the new Big East commish I would do everything I can to try to reconcile with BC. I've got to believe that if BC could have been certain that the Big East was going to keep their BCS status and knew that Syracuse was staying, they would have never left. Add increased fuel and travel costs and I've got to believe that they would at least consider a return.

2. I find it hard to believe that the football schools plus BC and/or UCF and/or ECU and/or Memphis couldn't make more money per school on their own TV deal if they split.

There might be some grumblings from old-line BC fans about going to the ACC, but I think the powers that be that matter (the university president and the athletic administration) are more than happy being in that conference. Within a few years, almost all BC fans won't even think twice about it (much like how the current generation of Penn State fans believe that being in the Big Ten is perfectly natural). Besides, BC 100% knew that Syracuse was staying when they left - remember, Miami and VT ending up leaving first, and then BC subsequently ended up being the 12th ACC member (in fact, they most likely ran as soon as they could to make sure that they became the 12th member as opposed to Syracuse). At the same time, people always point out the geography issues, but Maryland, UVA, and Virginia Tech are all considered to be fellow "East Coast schools" anyway (with Duke and Miami further being virtual East Coast schools with their heavy student populations from the Northeast) and BC has much more in common with the southern-based ACC schools than it does with new-wave Big East members Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF. There's no reconciliation to be made here - BC is never coming back to the Big East because even the geography argument doesn't wash with the newest Big East members included. Always remember in these expansion discussions that what some fans might desire to see on the field are often very different than what administrators want dollar-and-prestige-wise.