The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.

Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Frank.. Frankly I think you have it dead on. Temple.. champs doesnt want USF in it's bowl.. they will take em if they have to.. The would prefer ND 2x and WV at least once, They would rather Louisville, Pitt, or even Rutgers before USF. Not that USF wouldn't travel or any kind of a knock on them but part of their job is to bring in visiters that stay in O'town. Most USF people would just drive over and then go home. Same would be true if UCF was in BE they would rather UCF bowl elswhere. Gator and Orange bowl would be a bit different because its a longer drive for USF, or UCF and many would stay at least one night.

(08-15-2009 11:22 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Correct. It will be interesting to see what happens in that 4 year period. As our league strengthens and our fan bases travel better the Big East stature will rise.

That would be true but for one small problem. The world ends in 4 years.. so there will be no BE fan base. Mankind will be a footnote in history.

The only promblem with next 4 yr cycle,
BE has to overrun Toronto, Birmingham & St Pete for Bowls to be impressed.
Avg turnout for Champs is not going to do it.
Sun tough to get too.
BE is turning out for Mienkie

(08-16-2009 05:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Also, I know that the people on this board are going to generally spin the BE as "leaving the Gator Bowl" as if it were voluntary, but I think this was a miscalculation on the conference's part. The BE might have taken a "hardline" stance against the Gator Bowl initially, but I don't beleive it would have taken that position if it knew that the Big Ten #4/5 was going to be freed up from the Alamo Bowl. I think the BE assumed what a lot of people are saying about the Champs Sports now - there weren't any other choices for the Gator Bowl, so the BE would have the leverage. It's disingenuous to think that the Gator Bowl "settled" for the Big Ten after the BE supposedly spurned them. It's the opposite - the Gator Bowl was ecstatic that a Big Ten team became free where the game is now upping it's payout to be in line with the Outback and Chik-Fil-A Bowls.

Yes, if the Gator does indeed up its payout to $3 million (not a sure thing by any means) that would make the loss of the Gator tougher to swallow.

Excellent analysis of the bowl situation. Gator definitely did not "settle" for the B10, they JUMPED at the chance to get them. Talk that the Gator shot itself in the foot or has actually lost prestige in this arrangement is pretty silly. The Gator has openly said that one problem it has had with the BE is that WVU is the only really desirable program, but that even their fans would get 'fatigued' traveling to the GB frequently. Syracuse (and i'd also say Pitt) really need to step up because they have the football history and name recognition to draw national interest. Teams like Rutgers, Cincy, and Uconn might have excellent teams in given years and deserve to play in high-ranked bowls, but nationally there is little interest in seeing them and they have no track record of bringing lots of fans so the bowls aren't excited about having to take them.

Winning matters much to fans, but as you note the bowls are about money - ticket sales, tv ratings, sponsorships, and, because most bowls are closely tied-in to the host city's chamber of commerce, the prospect of out of state fans spending money at hotels and restaurants, etc.

The Gator would much rather have a low- or non- ranked, but well-travelling B10 team than a second-place but weak-traveling Big East team.

I think at least five BE programs (UL, UC, UConn, WVU and RU) have demonstrated a satisfactory ability to travel.

(08-16-2009 05:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 04:35 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  Why not? BE has shown it can certainly win on the field against anyone. If ACC with its sorry record can get good bowls, why can't the BE? I think BE should stand its ground and get the best deal it can. Gator gonna find out B10 #5 won't be anything interesting to the average viewers. They better hope 7-5 IOWA or some team like that gonna bring 25K to Jacksonville. Good luck to them.

rferry is right here. While the BE has won on the field, that doesn't necessarily translate into better bowl slots. Those bowls are more concerned about TV ratings and travel.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Once the games are kicked off...the Bowls could almost careless who wins...as its all about 1) How many fans can you bring and maybe more importantly HOW LONG you will stay? (i.e. thats why FSU gets a bad reputation for FLA bowls...as their fans arrive/depart day of game...so cities don't benefit that much off their "quick" visit) and 2) How many eye balls can you bring to the TV sets?

One team that I think could do well with a FLA Bowl is Rutgers.

This is a team that didn't earn an out-of-state bowl bid during the first 136 years of their program as the streak ended in 2005.

Since 2005, these are the locations where RU has traveled for bowl games:
'05: Insight (Phoenix)
'06: Texas Bowl (Houston)
'07: International (Toronto)
'08: Papa Johns (Birmingham)

I think if RU ever was able to get virtually ANY FLA Bowl Bid...they would generate their largest "bowl" travel crowd thus far.

To a lesser degree but still probably strong...UCONN might be able to do the same.

Heck...Syracuse...which has only played in 1 FLA bowl since the 1999 season ('04 Champs Sports Bowl/Tangerine Bowl Game) and only 1 bowl game since 2002 overall...if they get back to their "normal" successful ways (bowling every year)...they too might attract a large crowd in FLA.

(08-16-2009 04:35 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 03:01 AM)rferry Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 08:05 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 06:29 PM)claytonbigsby Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 12:00 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Exactly, you haven't seen anything out there. So why are you on here trashing the Big East's bowl setup if you don't have a clue what is out there? All you know is ONE thing the Gator Bowl rep has said. You don't know anything that the Champs Bowl rep has said. Case closed.

I spoke with the Champs Sports rep last night, and they are pushing for the 2 of 4 with ND. He's been trying to get ND back to Orlando for almost a decade. There is work in progress for an FSU/ND match-up in 2013 or 2014 (sounds so futuristic) at the Citrus Bowl. I'll see him again next week again, hopefully I have more to share if a deal isn't done by then.

If that's the case, BE could have stayed with the Gator. Seriously, BE already said no way to the shared thing and ND 1 out of 4. Let's hope that's the case. If they want 2 out 4, they better double their payout.

Think you meant to use 'should', but even that implies they had a serious chance at the Gator. Champs and Sun with the 2/4 is still a better set-up for the league right now than the offered Gator with 2/4 or the current hybrid with the 2/4 (1/2 + 1/2).

You do realize that anything short of a 4/4 among the Sun and Champs moves the BE #4 into a spot in the Meineke they didn't have chance at before? That may seem like a minor victory, but this wasn't the year for the BE to win bowls. This was the final shake-out of the realignment. Gator's actions over the past 3 years show that, and they jumped at the chance when the Big Ten was positioned to move. Don't worry - Champs and Sun are good opportunities. And in the next cycle or one after, the top bowls will be positioning themselves to commit to the BE #2.

Why not? BE has shown it can certainly win on the field against anyone. If ACC with its sorry record can get good bowls, why can't the BE? I think BE should stand its ground and get the best deal it can. Gator gonna find out B10 #5 won't be anything interesting to the average viewers. They better hope 7-5 IOWA or some team like that gonna bring 25K to Jacksonville. Good luck to them.

The Big East is obviously doing something right. Notice how these people have run to our board and tried to flood the board with worst case scenerios and potshots at the Big East? They only do this when something good happens and we're happy.

(08-16-2009 04:35 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 03:01 AM)rferry Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 08:05 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 06:29 PM)claytonbigsby Wrote:  

(08-15-2009 12:00 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Exactly, you haven't seen anything out there. So why are you on here trashing the Big East's bowl setup if you don't have a clue what is out there? All you know is ONE thing the Gator Bowl rep has said. You don't know anything that the Champs Bowl rep has said. Case closed.

I spoke with the Champs Sports rep last night, and they are pushing for the 2 of 4 with ND. He's been trying to get ND back to Orlando for almost a decade. There is work in progress for an FSU/ND match-up in 2013 or 2014 (sounds so futuristic) at the Citrus Bowl. I'll see him again next week again, hopefully I have more to share if a deal isn't done by then.

If that's the case, BE could have stayed with the Gator. Seriously, BE already said no way to the shared thing and ND 1 out of 4. Let's hope that's the case. If they want 2 out 4, they better double their payout.

Think you meant to use 'should', but even that implies they had a serious chance at the Gator. Champs and Sun with the 2/4 is still a better set-up for the league right now than the offered Gator with 2/4 or the current hybrid with the 2/4 (1/2 + 1/2).

You do realize that anything short of a 4/4 among the Sun and Champs moves the BE #4 into a spot in the Meineke they didn't have chance at before? That may seem like a minor victory, but this wasn't the year for the BE to win bowls. This was the final shake-out of the realignment. Gator's actions over the past 3 years show that, and they jumped at the chance when the Big Ten was positioned to move. Don't worry - Champs and Sun are good opportunities. And in the next cycle or one after, the top bowls will be positioning themselves to commit to the BE #2.

Why not? BE has shown it can certainly win on the field against anyone. If ACC with its sorry record can get good bowls, why can't the BE? I think BE should stand its ground and get the best deal it can. Gator gonna find out B10 #5 won't be anything interesting to the average viewers. They better hope 7-5 IOWA or some team like that gonna bring 25K to Jacksonville. Good luck to them.

Things work slow. Especially things like reputation. Its reputation isn't much improved since the realignment - it's still just WVU, ND and an inconsistent average #2 to many. Gator may find out it made it mistake - I predict they'll regret disrespecting the BE come next cycle or one after.
I fail to see how you can be obtuse to the bowl's own obtuseness. The Gator was obviously reluctant to sign with the BE this past contract, and it showed, as they took every liberty, every pot shot, every angle in an effort to not fulfill their obligations as a bowl partner. The Gator didn't really want the BE now, 8 months ago or when they signed the contract 4 years ago. However, because the Big Ten and other leagues were unprepared to sign with the Gator, BE got them. Or half of them. It shouldn't surprise any that such an unfaithful partner jumped into the Big Ten's arms once they were positioned to sign up.
The joke will be on them eventually, but realize building the BE's football reputation is going to take time and more work.

(08-16-2009 07:02 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The only promblem with next 4 yr cycle,
BE has to overrun Toronto, Birmingham & St Pete for Bowls to be impressed.
Avg turnout for Champs is not going to do it.
Sun tough to get too.
BE is turning out for Mienkie

Not true. Orlando is a huge improvement over Jacksonville. BE has done average or better than average in Jacksonville, they will flock to Orlando, even in a dumpy stadium.
The Sun doesn't need to sell tickets. They need TV eyes. BE may lack national attention, but the bowls tend to attract national attention theirselves. Throw the strong northeast showing on top of mild national attention, and the Sun still wins.
No one cares about Toronto and Birmingham, but they might with St. Pete but only in reference to USF's promise and the BE's pull in Florida.

I gotta agree with you there Rferry (post 189 that is). The media was much more quick to dump on the BE at the first sign of disaster (last year) then to come around at its successes (2006). Most casual fans take their cues from the ESPNs of the world, as opposed to forming their own informed opinions. Human nature, I guess.

I've said before, the BE has no margin for error. Seasons like 2006 and 2007 need to happen on a regular basis, and can ill afford ones like 2008.

It's symptomatic of today's throw away society. The ACC took from the ACC what ESPN cared about showing. They want to throw the rest of us away, without any further consideration, because it's convenient - and everybody that people care about will get more of the pile of money, without interlopers at the table...

(08-16-2009 05:52 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.
Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Maybe, maybe not, but I wonder if bringing 12K or so to FSU, several hours away, will impress them.

(08-16-2009 01:04 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 05:52 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.
Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Maybe, maybe not, but I wonder if bringing 12K or so to FSU, several hours away, will impress them.

WVU brings 20,000-30,000 many times to bowl games 700 -1,000 plus miles away.

(08-16-2009 01:11 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 01:04 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 05:52 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.
Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Maybe, maybe not, but I wonder if bringing 12K or so to FSU, several hours away, will impress them.

WVU brings 20,000-30,000 many times to bowl games 700 -1,000 plus miles away.

LOL. Here is KL with his links to try to put down USF attendance since they cant beat us on the field.

Run along loser worry about your team winning a freaking game.

(08-16-2009 01:19 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 01:11 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 01:04 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 05:52 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.
Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Maybe, maybe not, but I wonder if bringing 12K or so to FSU, several hours away, will impress them.

WVU brings 20,000-30,000 many times to bowl games 700 -1,000 plus miles away.

LOL. Here is KL with his links to try to put down USF attendance since they cant beat us on the field.

Run along loser worry about your team winning a freaking game.

Yes, i have no idea why UCF fans participate in these discussions. We should only see them in the "expansion" forum or here the week of the USF/UCF game.

(08-16-2009 01:11 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 01:04 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(08-16-2009 05:52 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  The BE has 4 schools that Fla bowls would be comfortable with, ND, WV, Louv & USF.
Louv being down is not helping, I said last yr USF has to overrun St Pete for Bowl neg this yr.
USF fans can spin it anyway they want, 20,000 fans 10 miles away did not impress the bowls.
Cin, RU & Conn bowl travell is still in it's invancy & bowls like track records
Bowls know what there getting from Pitt & Syc

Maybe, maybe not, but I wonder if bringing 12K or so to FSU, several hours away, will impress them.

WVU brings 20,000-30,000 many times to bowl games 700 -1,000 plus miles away.

Dude, get over your freaking obssession with USF. And there is a difference between bringing that many fans to a BOWL game, and taking fans to a freaking road game where you only have a certain amount of tickets given to you.

By the way, again fans of ANOTHER conference school trying to criticize us, bringing 20,000 fans to a bowl 10 miles away is still pretty impressive when you're a relatively new school and it's a LOWER TIER BOWL. I mean, really, you think that St Pete and the bowls weren't impressed with 20,000 fans from a school!? They'd kill to have that every year.