(04-19-2010 08:40 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 08:30 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 08:20 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 08:03 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  TCU HAS to be next and the 9th school can possible be Houston if it makes TCU feel better. Neither is going to get into the B12 because of the Texas schools already in place

TCU makes this league much more attractive in fooball

Jackson

Houston is a tier 4 school also, same problem as ECU and Memphis. Tulsa, which has been a pretty decent CUSA West team could be a travel partner for a TCU, but Tulsa isn't Houston in population of course.

Wasn't Louisville a tier 4 school when the joined the BE? Regardless, beggers can't be choosers. We don't have the luxary of getting good football schools that also have solid academics. We need schools that are good in football period. If it takes Houston to get TCU do it. It may minimize how much of our football schools lose in term of TV contracts etc

Jackson

Of course the remnants and bb schools can choose whatever they want--I don't think the bb schools which will hold the power with more schools than football will go for throwing all their values out just for a diminished football conference that likely will be fluid for awhile though. They will want to associate with members they feel are peers and that they have common ground with, while still letting football reestablish itself.

Then we have to split. TCUs football worth is much greater then the negative of being associated with their bball program. Frankly, the bball schools took USF and their bball..I can't see how TCU is any differnt.

TCU is also a religous/private school. Maybe that will make the bball onlys more comfortable

Jackson

(04-19-2010 08:32 PM)anothertigerfan Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 07:25 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 07:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 06:59 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Huntington is #63 DMA so it isn't that far off from #50 Memphis. However, I never said if Marshall would get in or not, I just listed the non BCS options for the BE in the academic range that would be considered. They won't look at Greeneville, NC for sure, they might look at Orlando, Dallas/Ft. Worth (TCU) and Tulsa(another possible travel partner?) They'll look at things like keeping some sort of contiguous states as well though, and also quality of programs will be considered. There are plenty of metro areas in the list of teams I gave and the schools in those areas have decent academic standing to outstanding. Memphis isn't going to be considered if its academics aren't improved.

I'm not calling you out, I just don't understand why some people are gushing over Marshall. Memphis probably has too good a basketball program to pass up especially if you're losing Pitt, or even worse, Syracuse.

There are other bb options-the bb schools may want to pick another northeast or catholic team anyway. Now that Calipari is gone and Memphis is under NCAA scrutiny, what was looking very good doesn't look so good anymore. Throw in low academic standing and the bb schools aren't going to be thrilled with that option.

Last I checked the allegations are over and Memphis has the #1 recruiting class in the nation. That's not good?

The BE will still have some great bb at least for awhile, and the bb schools will probably add more bb schools if they need to so that isn't really an issue. Great football is what is needed most, but part of the criteria would also be academics. BE schools know how they would appear to others with historical teams gone and dropping standards to let whoever in--it isn't going to help their cause which is why they will need to be careful.

(04-19-2010 06:38 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 06:36 PM)WVUeer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 06:24 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 06:18 PM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 06:09 PM)WVUeer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 05:57 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Don't think Army or Navy are on the list. We would have heard something about that by now.

Listen to the media, I know you hate to hear it but Memphis and ECU are not that far behind. Jurich did say he expected some CUSA replacements. Unless you want to make a big push for Marshall then I dunno.

Personally I disagree with the statement about Army and Navy. Especially if ND gives up its independence. They could be a player in the end IMO.

I agree that Memphis and ECU are not far behind but those two schools are not on the list of options that Buck presented.

I've always said I think these four schools would most definitely be in the mix.....Memphis UCF, Marshall and ECU

I would like to see Marshall get in at some point, we (UCF-Marshall) have got a nice little thing going, and I know there is a little bit of a regional rivalry between (WVU-Marshall) that I think would be a fun conference game every year. From what I hear though WVU folks ain't to keen on the idea...

True, but honestly WVU may not need to worry about it, at least not for long.

I got a feeling that you are right about that Buck. Personally I think we are headed to the ACC.

Will be interesting to see but looking at many comments on these boards I think many have a very false image of WVU and what it brings.

I could honestly say the exact same thing about Memphis on many BE boards. Buck, you don't know a damn thing about Memphis academics, other than they are a Tier 4 school. They actually have a high-rated law school and business school, and are nowhere close to the neer-do-well academically that you seem to think. Not to mention, those rankings, especially for Tiers 3 and 4, are about as accurate as the recruiting rankings for basketball players below the Top 100. They are simply opinions, not anything born of any measurable criteria.

I am not naive enough to think Memphis should be a top-ranked academic school. But I'm pretty sure that UL was a Tier 4 when they were admitted to the BE, and that seems to have worked out pretty well. If I recall, they became a Tier 3 soon after admission. I do imagine, by any objective criteria beyond opinion, you could make a pretty good case that Memphis is in the academic ballpark with UL and a number of other BCS schools in Tier 3, at the least.

Most fans know little or nothing about any school other than their own. You just used that argument to defend WVU. I think you should apply your own criteria to yourself.

(04-19-2010 08:26 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  hmm, the same Tranghese who was surprised that the ACC would try and poach teams and thought the BE could sit and do nothing after the last raid? The Tranghese who thought it a good idea to create the unyeilding hybrid despite the fact it has led football to probably its demise? Yeah, he is on top of what is happening.

I'd say he knows as much as the football coach at WVU.

Hey Buck, I thought the US News and World Report was unreliable, and that we really don't know what academic standards the conference will use to evaluate candidates. Wasn't that you're argument for West Virginia to the Big 10??

(04-19-2010 08:30 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 08:20 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-19-2010 08:03 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  TCU HAS to be next and the 9th school can possible be Houston if it makes TCU feel better. Neither is going to get into the B12 because of the Texas schools already in place

TCU makes this league much more attractive in fooball

Jackson

Houston is a tier 4 school also, same problem as ECU and Memphis. Tulsa, which has been a pretty decent CUSA West team could be a travel partner for a TCU, but Tulsa isn't Houston in population of course.

Wasn't Louisville a tier 4 school when the joined the BE? Regardless, beggers can't be choosers. We don't have the luxary of getting good football schools that also have solid academics. We need schools that are good in football period. If it takes Houston to get TCU do it. It may minimize how much of our football schools lose in term of TV contracts etc

Jackson

Jackson --- you are dead on the money partner.


TCU is a MUST.

They should be invited, as they are the only team out there that IMPROVES the quality of football being played in the league given their past decade-plus of success, and their history and tradition. I think they accept -- it's just too attractive to only have to win your conference to get to a BCS bowl than be perfect to do that.

If TCU joins, then the other candidates don't have to be as accomplished on the field or in their history as TCU. But they have to carry their weight other ways. Namely -- butts in the seats and be respectable travel partners for stabalizing our bowl tie-ins. This factor screams out ECU to me. They are expanding their stadium this fall and will pack it (50,000 some odd seats). They have a respectable history of good football. And they travel to their bowl games. All these factors mean they make the cut.

Then you look at Memphis AND/OR UCF.

Depending on how big you go with football members. 9 or 10.

Schools just on the outside of this list -- Marshall, Temple, Houston, Southern Miss.

(I'd throw Navy in there -- I tried in the past on this forum, but was dismissed from thinking they'd join. If they'd reconsider, then they'd be a good addition to the league to. But I agree with the posters who told me why they wouldn't consider it in the past.)

And one last thing -- I love Coach Pitino. But he doesn't have a clue if anyone's a lock for the conference or not. If Tom Jurich isn't sure about things, then Coach is simply guessing.




.

(04-19-2010 09:22 PM)HowardD11 Wrote:  Hey Buck, I thought the US News and World Report was unreliable, and that we really don't know what academic standards the conference will use to evaluate candidates. Wasn't that you're argument for West Virginia to the Big 10??

Buck is more of a Forbes man; well sometimes.

ECU is only briefly Tier 4 because the UNC Board of Governors basically mandated that we had to take in more students, but now since budgets are tightening, we're allowed to raise our standards, which after this year would put us back into Tier 3 easily.

(04-19-2010 09:22 PM)HowardD11 Wrote:  Hey Buck, I thought the US News and World Report was unreliable, and that we really don't know what academic standards the conference will use to evaluate candidates. Wasn't that you're argument for West Virginia to the Big 10??

You can use whichever you want, ECU is way down there in either one.

Here's as good thread to pimp for your alma mater as any! I'll start with a resume for Buffalo (institutionally skewed 2010 data, of course):

Founded: 1846 as private U. of Buffalo until 1962 when merged with SUNY
Students: 28,881
Undergrad: 19,368
Graduate: 9,513
Endowment: $410 Mil.
Annual Budget: $1.3 Bil.
Research Spending: $348 Mil.
Research Centers: 107
Employees: 10,066
Alumni: 208,000 (114,00 in New York)
Schools: 13 Medical school: Yes Law School: Yes
Undergrad Programs: 100+
Masters Programs: 190
Doc/Prof Programs: 87
5 Largest Degree Programs: Management, Mech. and Aero. Engineering, Psychology, Law (Graduate), Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences
3 Campuses with 1,346 acres, 205 buildings, 9 libraries
Resident students: 7,100
Memberships: Association of American Universities, Association of Public and Land-Grant Universities

State pop: 19,541,453 (3rd)
WNY/Niagara (Can.) Pop: 3,012,634
MSA Pop: 1,124,309 (47th)
DMA: 633,000 households (Rank: 52nd)
Major company HQ: First Niagara Financial, Great Lakes Health System, M&T Bank, New Era Cap Company, Delaware North Companies, Rich Products, Labatt USA (Woot!)

UB Stadium Capacity: ~30,000 (Built 1993, Expanded 1999)
Alumni Arena Capacity: 6,100 (Built 1984, 8,900 capacity lowered with 2004 renovation)
Sports: 20
2009 Athletic Budget: $23.5 Mil.
Football Budget: $5.2 Mil. Men's basketball Budget: $1.2 Mil.

NY FBS programs: 3, Army [Federal], Buffalo [Public], Syracuse [Private]
Nearest FBS programs: Syracuse (140 miles), Penn State (200), Pittsburgh (220)
Nearest FCS programs: Cornell (150 Miles), Colgate (175), Youngstown State (190)
Other WNY football programs: Buffalo State Bengals (D3), ECC Kats (JC)
Buffalo-Niagara 2010 FBS commits: Buffalo 5, Miami (Fl) 1, Toledo 1

Anecdotal Positives:
* NY is the largest state by population without a BCS public institution (followed by #2 Massachusetts, #3 Utah)
* UB is the primate university in the SUNY system, the largest in the world. It receives more state funding than any other state university, typical of flagship campuses
* Basketball practice facility completed in 2010. Future investment in basketball facilities are not needed. Dual-use of Alumni Arena (6,100) and HSBC Arena (19,000) for opponents possible (much like UConn)
*Football uses Bills' fieldhouse during inclement weather. 12,000 sq ft of athletic training space on campus. Fund-raising has begun for an IPF with 100 yard sythetic field, indoor track, and training space

Anecdotal Negatives:
* UB reclassified as Major College upon going public in 1962. Football dropped in 1970, revived 1977
* Athletic scholarship ban lifted by SUNY in 1988. UB has only been D-1 since 1991, FBS since 1999
* Football has been played since 1884, with overall poor history as private and public school. 2 Bowl invites
* Poor FBS performance and entertainment competition from Bills has slowed attendance growth
* Athletics budget historically low. Increased expenditures to #2 ranking in the MAC recently, now good for football, but slightly low for basketball

There is a lot of sentiment against ECU to the BE and that it doesn't bring anything to the table. As a ECU fan, if it wasn't for the BCS label, I could care less about joining the BE. I don't see where the BE has anything to offer ECU other than the BE label. That's it.

If the ACC or SEC were an option via expansion most ECU fans would rather be in one of those leagues. I know I would. So when I read the many negatives about ECU from BE fans, it doesn't bother me one bit, because the BE to me is only a means to the end, BCS inclusion.

Enjoy the speculation it will be out of the bag soon and then we'll all know what will happen and who these other conferences are looking at.

Believe me, there are a number of fans of Big East schools that are only fans of this conference for convenience. We'd all bolt to the Big Ten, ACC or SEC in a hearbeat given the choice.

The list is UCF, Memphis, ECU and Temple unless the conference decides to change its name and go west. Then Houston and TCU make the list. Maybe Southern Miss or even UAB, but I highly doubt it.

You people talking about Tulane, Tulsa, Miami (OH) and Buffalo or whoever are nuts.

It is obvious that this thread was created as bait for ECU and Memphis fans.

Some fans take things personally when they see what the lay of the land is. i.e. the fact that DMA's are so important to college conferences and the fact that academics are also important. It is just the way it is.

As time goes on I don't see the Big East supporting football within a few years and most if not all of its teams will have been absorbed into other conferences so all this is moot anyway. Just looking short term there might be some temporary league, but it doesn't really make sense-who wants to join a temporary situation?

buckaineer is a closet Marshall fan. I bet he is a Marshall student/graduate that roots for West Virginia.

(04-20-2010 07:00 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The list is UCF, Memphis, ECU and Temple unless the conference decides change its name and go west. Then Houston and TCU make the list. Maybe Southern Miss or even UAB, but I highly doubt it.

You people talking about Tulane, Tulsa, Miami (OH) and Buffalo or whoever are nuts.

No, it's only that in your mind. In reality, they've probably discussed a couple of schools with UCF getting the most pull (since they were in the top the last go around anyway). The Big East hasn't officially been notified who is leaving yet so to suggest they've already made a list, especially based on the candidates you've pulled up is just not the case.

(04-20-2010 06:41 AM)Smokin Pirate Wrote:  There is a lot of sentiment against ECU to the BE and that it doesn't bring anything to the table. As a ECU fan, if it wasn't for the BCS label, I could care less about joining the BE.

If the ACC or SEC were an option via expansion most ECU fans would rather be in one of those leagues. I know I would. So when I read the many negatives about ECU from BE fans, it doesn't bother me one bit, because the BE to me is only a means to the end, BCS inclusion.

Well join the club regarding the ACC and SEC. They are not going to be on the phone for any of us.

(04-20-2010 07:25 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  buckaineer is a closet Marshall fan. I bet he is a Marshall student/graduate that roots for West Virginia.

If by being a Marshall fan you mean I think Marshall makes as much or more sense in a refabricated BE than ECU does, you are right. Other than that, I don't see Marshall ever being invited into the Big East either. I'd say the ECU posers and posters here just have a hard time accepting facts--for MU that's all I did, list where they fall in those academic standings.

(04-20-2010 07:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-20-2010 07:00 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The list is UCF, Memphis, ECU and Temple unless the conference decides change its name and go west. Then Houston and TCU make the list. Maybe Southern Miss or even UAB, but I highly doubt it.

You people talking about Tulane, Tulsa, Miami (OH) and Buffalo or whoever are nuts.

No, it's only that in your mind. In reality, they've probably discussed a couple of schools with UCF getting the most pull (since they were in the top the last go around anyway). The Big East hasn't officially been notified who is leaving yet so to suggest they've already made a list, especially based on the candidates you've pulled up is just not the case.

Sarcasm? :patriot:

Unless we can somehow poach from the ACC to form an entirely new conference with a different TV deal, then that is the list - UCF, Memphis, ECU and Temple. Given the relative weakness of that list, a move to include TCU and Houston would not surprise me.