what argument can i use? here's the thing, i guarantee you wade and lebron will force him to play D, just like garnett forced allen and pierce to do so. it's not like anybody on Toronto played D. Defense is just about working hard and understanding the schemes. Anybody can play D. If the coach and the players stress D, Bosh will play tough D.

BTW, what if Shaq signs with the Heat.

(07-10-2010 05:11 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  here's the thing, i guarantee you wade and lebron will force him to play D, just like garnett forced allen and pierce to do so.

That and $4 will get me a cup of coffee.

Quote:BTW, what if Shaq signs with the Heat.

1. He's already been there and, as Shaq always does, burned the bridge.
2. He'll take the league minimum? Maybe, to get another championship but it seems pretty cheap for a $20 million/year guy. They can't afford to give him the mid level exception because they need to save that for a guy who'll be in the game.
3. Shaq will play less than 20 minutes per game. They'll need more.

Boston and Orlando, to me, still have just as good a chance to be #1 in the East.

(07-11-2010 11:27 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-10-2010 05:11 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  here's the thing, i guarantee you wade and lebron will force him to play D, just like garnett forced allen and pierce to do so.

That and $4 will get me a cup of coffee.

Quote:BTW, what if Shaq signs with the Heat.

1. He's already been there and, as Shaq always does, burned the bridge.
2. He'll take the league minimum? Maybe, to get another championship but it seems pretty cheap for a $20 million/year guy. They can't afford to give him the mid level exception because they need to save that for a guy who'll be in the game.
3. Shaq will play less than 20 minutes per game. They'll need more.

Boston and Orlando, to me, still have just as good a chance to be #1 in the East.

your knowledge is lacking a little. the heat don't have a mid level exception this year. Any team that goes into the offseason with cap space, forfeits its MLE.

and yes, i believe shaq would take the veteran's minimum to play with his buddies lebron and wade.

you think boston without its best Defensive player will challenge for the #1 spot in the east? What if they lose tony allen as well?

And as for my guarantee, there's nothing else I can say. I don't know what you know about basketball, but defense isn't like shooting. you're not born with the skill. Any player can learn to play defense. hell, look what jj redick has turned himself into. I firmly believe Bosh will learn to play quality team defense.

and i forgot to mention: what if shaq gives them 20 min/game, haslem 15 min and bosh the rest when they go small? how is that not good enough? people are so concerned about the heat not being able to guard dwight howard, but i think the magic should be concerned about not being able to guard lebron, wade and bosh. is rashard lewis (the man who choked against garnett) gonna be able to guard Bosh? is vince carter (an even bigger choke artist) gonna be able to guard wade?

(07-11-2010 12:27 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  your knowledge is lacking a little. the heat don't have a mid level exception this year. Any team that goes into the offseason with cap space, forfeits its MLE.

And as for my guarantee, there's nothing else I can say. I don't know what you know about basketball, but defense isn't like shooting. you're not born with the skill. Any player can learn to play defense. hell, look what jj redick has turned himself into. I firmly believe Bosh will learn to play quality team defense.

And yet the guy with the lack of knowledge (fully and happily admitted) has ACTUAL, EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to back up his opinion. And the expert has what? A feeling/hope/little of both that SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED in a 7 year career will now finally happen. And the basis for that is a couple of guys who are completely disconnected from the players in this discussion.

Look, we just disagree here, and that's ok. But your argument on Bosh is just laughable. If you want to make your point you've got to come up with something a lot more compelling.

I also think Shaq will sign there... and it not like he deserves much more than that salary.

(07-11-2010 05:42 PM)UT Ceng Owl Wrote:  I also think Shaq will sign there... and it not like he deserves much more than that salary.

Yeah, it looks that way - several reports are predicting it. And I agree re salary. They'll be lucky to get 15 mins/game and his injury potential is pretty close to 100%.

(07-11-2010 04:59 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 12:27 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  your knowledge is lacking a little. the heat don't have a mid level exception this year. Any team that goes into the offseason with cap space, forfeits its MLE.

And as for my guarantee, there's nothing else I can say. I don't know what you know about basketball, but defense isn't like shooting. you're not born with the skill. Any player can learn to play defense. hell, look what jj redick has turned himself into. I firmly believe Bosh will learn to play quality team defense.

And yet the guy with the lack of knowledge (fully and happily admitted) has ACTUAL, EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to back up his opinion. And the expert has what? A feeling/hope/little of both that SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED in a 7 year career will now finally happen. And the basis for that is a couple of guys who are completely disconnected from the players in this discussion.

Look, we just disagree here, and that's ok. But your argument on Bosh is just laughable. If you want to make your point you've got to come up with something a lot more compelling.

i've got no possible way of coming up with any evidence as you very well know, but if you believe that lebron and wade won't force bosh to play defense, you're crazy. there's endless evidence of players over the years, being known for not playing much defense on one team and then becoming very good defensive players when they go to a new team. There's no reason to believe that bosh can't play defense and your insistence that he'll be reticent to learn is slightly alarming. you seem to be rooting for him to fail. you also seem to talk about all the match up problems the heat will have, yet you neglect to mention the match up problems they'll create for the opposition.

(07-11-2010 05:54 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 05:42 PM)UT Ceng Owl Wrote:  I also think Shaq will sign there... and it not like he deserves much more than that salary.

Yeah, it looks that way - several reports are predicting it. And I agree re salary. They'll be lucky to get 15 mins/game and his injury potential is pretty close to 100%.

Six fouls / game from Shaq, Sexy Dexy and Varnado sounds like a viable anti-Orlando center to me.

(07-11-2010 05:54 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 05:42 PM)UT Ceng Owl Wrote:  I also think Shaq will sign there... and it not like he deserves much more than that salary.

Yeah, it looks that way - several reports are predicting it. And I agree re salary. They'll be lucky to get 15 mins/game and his injury potential is pretty close to 100%.

they got over 23 min/game from him last year. it's not like they need andrew bogut. they just need people who are going to come in and throw their weight around.

Here's an article showing a little backstory of the Mi Amigos............... The word your looking for is tampering.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...s_cou.html

(07-11-2010 07:31 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's an article showing a little backstory of the Mi Amigos............... The word your looking for is tampering.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...s_cou.html

good article. read it this morning. is it tampering if the players were the ones who were talking? I mean, Riley didn't exactly do anything wrong.

good column from adande addressing all this collusion BS.

He had a really good quote from a rival GM:
"Indignation? Really?" he said. "Do teams actually talk to agents before July 1? I'm shocked. It's Claude Rains, shocked that gambling is going on in Rick's Café."

"We know that's going on. It's reality. And we're all big boys. If you have an attractive wife, guys are gonna be hitting on her. It comes with the territory."

people should really stop crying about all of this. deep down, most people aren't mad about this, they're just pissed that one of america's sports heroes could act like such a douche on national TV

What I am pissed about. This was our Jordan. Our Magic or Larry. The kid is from the area so he has to know what emotional investment the area had in him. He knows he's bolting for weeks probably months or even more frightening years. The chat rooms here are full of conspiracy theories he actually tanked the Boston series. He could bolt because the "franshise couldn't get it done". His "brand" wouldn't take that much of a hit under those circumstances. The whole thing is sickening and that includes my emotional investment. My wife is getting pissed about it because she says I'm moping around. I don't know?????????? I'm just pissed about it. I'm even thinking about calling my State Farm insurance agent tomorrow and giving State Farm 6 months to lose LeBron or I'm looking for another insurance agency. I will never drink Vitamin water again. My kids are going to wear something other than Nike. Fck this guy.

(07-11-2010 08:26 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What I am pissed about. This was our Jordan. Our Magic or Larry. The kid is from the area so he has to know what emotional investment the area had in him. He knows he's bolting for weeks probably months or even more frightening years. The chat rooms here are full of conspiracy theories he actually tanked the Boston series. He could bolt because the "franshise couldn't get it done". His "brand" wouldn't take that much of a hit under those circumstances. The whole thing is sickening and that includes my emotional investment. My wife is getting pissed about it because she says I'm moping around. I don't know?????????? I'm just pissed about it. I'm even thinking about calling my State Farm insurance agent tomorrow and giving State Farm 6 months to lose LeBron or I'm looking for another insurance agency. I will never drink Vitamin water again. My kids are going to wear something other than Nike. Fck this guy.

dude, let it go. he's an immature kid who got some bad advice. he didn't f*ck your wife. what's funny is that people like you will threaten to do all this stuff, but do those same people threaten to not watch the phillies after brett myers hit his wife? let's put things in perspective

so in addition to kendrick perkins' injury, the celtics officially lost tony allen today. At full health they finished in 4th place last year. I don't quite see a top 4 finish for them this year. I think we're looking at the magic, bulls, heat and hawks as the top 4 in the east.

(07-11-2010 06:28 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i've got no possible way of coming up with any evidence

THAT'S THE FLIPPING POINT!

Quote:there's endless evidence of players over the years, being known for not playing much defense on one team and then becoming very good defensive players when they go to a new team.

And for everyone ONE you show, I've got DOZENS of counter examples.

Quote:your insistence that he'll be reticent to learn is slightly alarming. you seem to be rooting for him to fail.

Quote:dude, let it go. he didn't f*ck your wife.

My goodness man; you have no idea how to make a coherent, logical point. I'm out.

(07-11-2010 06:50 PM)UT Ceng Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 05:54 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 05:42 PM)UT Ceng Owl Wrote:  I also think Shaq will sign there... and it not like he deserves much more than that salary.

Yeah, it looks that way - several reports are predicting it. And I agree re salary. They'll be lucky to get 15 mins/game and his injury potential is pretty close to 100%.

Six fouls / game from Shaq, Sexy Dexy and Varnado sounds like a viable anti-Orlando center to me.

You may be right but I think it's going to be hard to count on Shaq. Remember, his 23 or so minutes per game last year only count for the 53 games he played. It's a fair bet that at his age he'll be playing less minutes in less games in 10-11.

(07-09-2010 07:10 AM)Rebel Wrote:  How do you get an all white jury in Oakland? That's like getting an all black jury in Islamorada, Fl.

This was f'ed up. If people compare this to Rodney King, they'll do a disservice to the kid. King was a hopped-up crackhead who wouldn't stay down, this kid was already subdued.

(07-12-2010 10:48 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  [quote='flyingswoosh' pid='5567094' dateline='1278890896']

Quote:dude, let it go. he didn't f*ck your wife.

My goodness man; you have no idea how to make a coherent, logical point. I'm out.

the guy was threatening to drop his insurance provider. what do you want me to say, good idea?

(07-12-2010 10:48 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(07-11-2010 06:28 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i've got no possible way of coming up with any evidence

THAT'S THE FLIPPING POINT!

i realize that.

(07-12-2010 10:48 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  [quote='flyingswoosh' pid='5567094' dateline='1278890896']

Quote:there's endless evidence of players over the years, being known for not playing much defense on one team and then becoming very good defensive players when they go to a new team.

And for everyone ONE you show, I've got DOZENS of counter examples.

really? name me one superstar, who was known for his reluctance to play D, that didn't become a good defender once he got to a new team with superstars who played tough D. For instance, earl monroe didn't play much defense with the bulls, but once he got to the Knicks he began to play tough D.

dave debusschere and bill russell brought toughness to the knicks and celtics that transformed them into great defensive teams. Pau Gasol wasn't thought of as a good defensive player until he started playing with Kobe. On the flipside, amare stoudemire never played any defense in phoenix because it wasn't stressed in d'antoni's system. which is why nash has never been known for defense either.

I'm also curious about something else; how many raptors games do you watch?