(08-12-2010 12:09 PM)GO_TU Wrote:  Villanova has SO MUCH SUPPORT that they can't even fill 1/3 of their tiny, pathetic high-school-sized stadium for a playoff game!

Clearly, this team will save the Big East.

The Big East is looking at Villanova not Temple, deal with it already.

(08-12-2010 12:09 PM)GO_TU Wrote:  Villanova has SO MUCH SUPPORT that they can't even fill 1/3 of their tiny, pathetic high-school-sized stadium for a playoff game!

Clearly, this team will save the Big East.

They have so much support they bring more people to weeknight basketball games in downtown Philly than Temple brings to weekend football games across the street. And we've had a great relationship with Nova for 30 years, we can trust them as a partner. Get over it, Temple had its chance, Temple stole from the league, now Temple is out.

What about this highly plausible scenario: What if Nova decides to upgrade (this all assumes they overcome the impossible obstacles of having a place to play, funding and administration support) and is unable to meet the minimum attendance requirement of 15,000 / year?

They've never averaged 15,000 a year before (or even close to that), so who's to say they will now? Then where will the Big East be?

Of course, the Big East is screwed regardless if they think that Nova and Notre Dame are their best two options.

I have confidence that Villanova can sell 20,000 tickets for 6 games a season. They do it for 6 Wachovia Center basketball games per year, and football only has 6 total games per year. If Nova doesn't average 15k, then we can deal with it then.

Of course, the Big East will continue to flourish, and our schools will continue to go to Final 4's and BCS Bowls, and I will be happy playing Georgetown and UConn and Villanova and Notre Dame and St. John's and West Virginia and Cincinnati and everybody else every year.

(08-12-2010 09:59 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:42 AM)OrangeCrush Wrote:  Why is ECU the team to grab the statewide attention. I see 4 other teams in their state that are already far more established athletic programs. That's why I think it is UCF

There are 4 other established athletic programs in Florida also.

Don't muddy the waters with those silly facts, friend......

(08-12-2010 01:00 PM)OrangeCrush Wrote:  I have confidence that Villanova can sell 20,000 tickets for 6 games a season. They do it for 6 Wachovia Center basketball games per year, and football only has 6 total games per year. If Nova doesn't average 15k, then we can deal with it then.

Of course, the Big East will continue to flourish, and our schools will continue to go to Final 4's and BCS Bowls, and I will be happy playing Georgetown and UConn and Villanova and Notre Dame and St. John's and West Virginia and Cincinnati and everybody else every year.

20k average attendance is total garbage. Nova doesn't belong in the Big East then either they belong in the MAC or frankly where they already are in the CAA. Rutgers was still putting a bit more than that in the seats in the bad old days of not so long ago.

(08-12-2010 01:03 PM)Capital Pirate Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:59 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:42 AM)OrangeCrush Wrote:  Why is ECU the team to grab the statewide attention. I see 4 other teams in their state that are already far more established athletic programs. That's why I think it is UCF

There are 4 other established athletic programs in Florida also.

Don't muddy the waters with those silly facts, friend......

But Central Florida is untapped territory, while North Carolina seems to be completely saturated. There is a ton of Tar Heel pride in NC, while Florida is a fragmented state with more transplanted residents that could be more up for grabs.

(08-12-2010 12:10 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 11:47 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 10:58 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  Even though adding Villanova for football keeps the Big East at 16, there will be an imbalance between the football schools and the basketball schools. What's the difference between promoting Villanova or just adding a school like ECU for all sports, other than making the big east a 17 member conference?

No one said they were trying to keep a "balance."

Actually if they were not trying to keep a balance, why didnt they add football/all sports members rather then Depaul and Marquette in the past. In other words because they offered football add Memphis and East Carolina instead of two schools that dont offer football.

Traghese said he only wanted 8 schools in football. Some have made the argument that what I just said is proposterous, but I dont believe that. I think "balance" was the reason for the calculated additions. Its the presidents, and if the bball presidents want bball schools, then they must compromise.

Splitting would kill the programs at several schools that have under performed in basketball and non revenue sports over the past few years.[i]

Just to re-direct a little...who are these suspects? I was thinking...

Seton Hall
Providence
Depaul
St John's

Just putting this out there...but didnt the conference, in 2003, do what they did in terms of expansion and staying together, because of the bball schools? Fast Forward to 2010...the same issue exists.

We have seen Syracuse, UConn, West Virginia, Louisville, and Pittsburgh excel at bball. Cincy has been a bit of a disappointment, USF has improved and Rutgers is still not very good.

But those 5 I first listed in bball are VERY important to the BE. They are also all FB members. It certainly doesnt seem like the bball members are holding their weight. It appears that they are utilizing their ties to these football members for their programs to survive....isnt that what Sandiss just said.

How is that any different then what happened with Temple in football?

Temple, not a fan...Villanova, bring em on! I'd rather have all the CUSA schools than Temple. They are LAST on my list.

HP-TBDPITL, I asked in another thread why schools like Seton Hall don't re-evaluate their position and their goals while in the Big East and leave voluntarily. They clearly are not competitive, so what are they gaining from this conference?

(08-12-2010 01:12 PM)krux Wrote:  Temple, not a fan...Villanova, bring em on! I'd rather have all the CUSA schools than Temple. They are LAST on my list.

Temple is probably not the answer for the Big East.

However, upgrading Villanova would only bring a quicker end to a conference that is destined to dissolve.

Again, all academic, because it will never happen anyway.

The one thing I hope for if Nova does this is that they get a "loyalty agreement" from the Big Ten wannabes. I think they'd be insane to commit to this unless Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn all commit to the Big East for AT LEAST another 10 years no matter what the Big Ten offers. And for that matter, If I'm running Nova, I want that agreement from USF, UL, UC and WVU as well.

(08-12-2010 01:20 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The one thing I hope for if Nova does this is that they get a "loyalty agreement" from the Big Ten wannabes. I think they'd be insane to commit to this unless Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn all commit to the Big East for AT LEAST another 10 years no matter what the Big Ten offers. And for that matter, If I'm running Nova, I want that agreement from USF, UL, UC and WVU as well.

You're on to something but it's the other way around: Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and UConn should make Villanova sign a committment NOT to upgrade or else they will leave.

(08-12-2010 01:06 PM)OrangeCrush Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 01:03 PM)Capital Pirate Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:59 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:42 AM)OrangeCrush Wrote:  Why is ECU the team to grab the statewide attention. I see 4 other teams in their state that are already far more established athletic programs. That's why I think it is UCF

There are 4 other established athletic programs in Florida also.

Don't muddy the waters with those silly facts, friend......

But Central Florida is untapped territory, while North Carolina seems to be completely saturated. There is a ton of Tar Heel pride in NC, while Florida is a fragmented state with more transplanted residents that could be more up for grabs.

C'mon, please.

(08-12-2010 01:11 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Splitting would kill the programs at several schools that have under performed in basketball and non revenue sports over the past few years.[i]

Just to re-direct a little...who are these suspects? I was thinking...

Seton Hall
Providence
Depaul
St John's

Just putting this out there...but didnt the conference, in 2003, do what they did in terms of expansion and staying together, because of the bball schools? Fast Forward to 2010...the same issue exists........................It certainly doesnt seem like the bball members are holding their weight. It appears that they are utilizing their ties to these football members for their programs to survive....isnt that what Sandiss just said.

How is that any different then what happened with Temple in football?

Ding Ding Ding - I have wondered the same since 2003. No offense to DePaul, Seton Hall, or Providence but they have done nothing and are like Temple as they are just collecting a check for just being in our conference. They are using this conference to gain money and notoriety. They should just leave and move their programs into another conference or into another level of college athletics. The Big East has become a welfare check for those schools and I think this is holding us back in terms of improving football and getting some solidarity among conference members.

(08-12-2010 12:10 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 11:47 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  No one said they were trying to keep a "balance."

Actually if they were not trying to keep a balance, why didnt they add football/all sports members rather then Depaul and Marquette in the past.

I didn't say that keeping a balance was never an issue. At the time Depaul and Maruette were added, there was a necessary reason to keep the balance in the event a split was necessary. Granted, that was not the best of logic, but more money was made then lost by those two additions (as opposed to only 3 additions).

(08-12-2010 12:44 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 10:26 AM)MiamiBull2 Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 10:20 AM)Den Wrote:  

(08-11-2010 10:54 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  Thanks for the info, Sandiss. Its nice to have a credible source.

Help my memory here please Knight. What has Sandiss been right on that is significant?

Just looking back, it looks like Sandiss was right on with the Villanova rumors many weeks ago that are now circulating and the fact that BE would not expand. The TV stuff seems to be right on with some of the things Marinatto has mentioned over the past few weeks. I'll give him or her some South Beach street cred for this.

He also hinted that Georgetown supported expansion (they were one of the biggest supporters of the Big 12 schools). He has been solid with his info.

Fair enough guys - just checking. Old age & faulty memory here...

(08-12-2010 10:31 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 10:26 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 09:35 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  IMO:

-ECU is that team to grab statewide attention
-UL/UC/USF are the 3 schools still looking at the 10/18 or 12/20 format
-UL/UC and others are the ones in opposition of funding Nova and the non producing bball schools but realize it is what it is
-Rutgers/Pitt/Cuse or UL/UC are the 2 or 3 schools in doubt of the 8/8 format staying as is....for obvious reasons
-Nova is the 1 out 8 bball school with change of heart
-UL (new guard) and Pitt or UConn (old guard) working together for next 9-14 months on the 10/18 or 12/20 concept in partnership with Tags findings. UL because we seem to have had the most successful ramp up from a non BCS status and either Pitt or UConn, because they have been here for awhile and not sure if they are moving in the first raid
-The Network models showing 8 teams doesn't work all that great creates both good and bad situations. Good in that expansion is necessary to bring the BEN on board and will stabilize the conference, bad in that not all members from 8 all sports or 8 bball will be able to get their arms around a format to work together for this. Only option is to split but still be under the same umbrella on the network, scheduling, and some sports.

I agree with everything except I think that ND had the change of heart about adding another football school. They are for it because it allows them to keep all sports in the Big East except football.

On a side note, I think it has to be ECU in terms of gaining significant interest in the Big East Network... I don't think the other schools have a huge following outside of their local city (yet).

You think ND? Maybe. My first thought was Villanova. If they say no go, then they say go ahead and get someone else.

Excellent deductions on both of your parts, dgrace and mlb. I think there's probably a lotta truth in what you surmised.

Based on this (and other feedback from this board), my best guess is ....

... that Nova doesn't move up to I-A football.
... ND doesn't agree to play any football slate with BE.
... East Carolina would be the school chosen if only 1 football member were added.
... East Carolina and Central Florida would be chosen for a 10/18 option.
... East Carolina, Central Florida, Memphis, and Temple for a 12/20 option.

But I don't see a 12/20 option happening.

I think we wind up with a 10/18 configuration.

.

Sandiss has been very accurate and his info should be considered "insider status". Having said that, if this is the BE's plan for being proactive; it's an embarrassing joke. Villanova has no business being D1, let alone in a BCS league. ND will never do anything remotely being tied into BE football. If the Big 10 comes calling for two out of SU/RU/Pitt/UConn, they are gone and the BE implodes because they are once again cowering to the basketball-only schools. The best way for the BE to strengthen itself is to hope the Pac 16 is created from the the Big 12 and they can grab Kansas, Kansas St., Missouri and Iowa St. If those schools aren't cool with the 12/20 hybrid, then the 12 football schools need to seperate from the 8 basketball schools.