(04-18-2011 02:08 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:04 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  It is just not winning streak, we got multiple NBA players in the league a program like Indiana can't touch. There are fans outside the midwest you know.

Indiana has had more NBA players than Uconn. They also have more titles.

This isn't something that Frank just made up, there is a Big Six in college basketball, and it will not be changing anytime soon. No matter how down those six programs get (and Indiana, UCL, and Kentucky have had periods of being down), they are still considered head and shoulders above the rest. Just because one happens to be down at the current moment, doesn't mean anything. And as strange as it sounds, Indiana was just a top ten team three years ago, when Uconn was in the NIT. They just had an unusual situation occur with Sampson. And if you took a snapshot at that time, you might have found Uconn ranked behind Georgetown or Villanova in the pecking order, and that would be equally as unfair.

Head and shoulders? That's your opinion. Many don't agree with you. UCONN is just about there whether you like it or not. Do a survey across America right now and I am sure most people would agree with me than some old timers here.

(04-18-2011 01:47 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  I don't know how old you are Frank, but those schools are for old foggies especially basketball ones.

I'm 33, so I'm probably not quite in the old foggie category yet. Once again, I'm talking about the floor (NOT the ceiling). The whole point is that even when schools like UCLA and Indiana are horrible, they still get national TV slots. You may not personally watch them, but others still do. I know that a lot of sports culture is based on "What have you done for me lately?" short attention spans, but Indiana is going through literally the worst stretch in its history in the wake of the Kelvin Sampson disaster. Of course, when was the last time Indiana made it to the NCAA Tournament? Those ancient days of 2008. When was the last time they made it to the national title game? The prehistoric times of 2002.

And please trust me when I say that I LOATHE Indiana basketball (my blog's most popular posts prior to expansion mania were a series of writings equating Kelvin Sampson with Satan's Spawn that Deadspin linked to), so I'm not defending them out of some type of support.

So does Louisville and that's why we are the most profitable basketball program in the nation!

(04-18-2011 02:20 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So does Louisville and that's why we are the most profitable basketball program in the nation!

Yes, that is correct, especially with the new facility.

The list of 6 schools I had are really college basketball's blue bloods. There are a whole host of Big East schools in the next category (UConn, Syracuse, Louisville). The BE's main selling point for basketball is its depth (as evidenced by the number of NCAA Tournament bids this year) as opposed to having blue bloods.

(04-18-2011 02:13 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:08 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:04 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  It is just not winning streak, we got multiple NBA players in the league a program like Indiana can't touch. There are fans outside the midwest you know.

Indiana has had more NBA players than Uconn. They also have more titles.

This isn't something that Frank just made up, there is a Big Six in college basketball, and it will not be changing anytime soon. No matter how down those six programs get (and Indiana, UCL, and Kentucky have had periods of being down), they are still considered head and shoulders above the rest. Just because one happens to be down at the current moment, doesn't mean anything. And as strange as it sounds, Indiana was just a top ten team three years ago, when Uconn was in the NIT. They just had an unusual situation occur with Sampson. And if you took a snapshot at that time, you might have found Uconn ranked behind Georgetown or Villanova in the pecking order, and that would be equally as unfair.

Head and shoulders? That's your opinion. Many don't agree with you. UCONN is just about there whether you like it or not. Do a survey across America right now and I am sure most people would agree with me than some old timers here.

This IU, UConn thingy is getting off topic, but over the last 15 or whatever years UConn has a many more NBA players than IU. IU??? Eric Gordon, AJ Guyton for a cup of coffee, that is about it, maybe Jared Jeffries. UConn has to have 10-15 nba guys in that time frame.

(04-18-2011 02:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:20 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So does Louisville and that's why we are the most profitable basketball program in the nation!

Yes, that is correct, especially with the new facility.

The list of 6 schools I had are really college basketball's blue bloods. There are a whole host of Big East schools in the next category (UConn, Syracuse, Louisville). The BE's main selling point for basketball is its depth (as evidenced by the number of NCAA Tournament bids this year) as opposed to having blue bloods.

UCONN definitely separated itself from the next group. BTW, do you have TV rating numbers for Indiana this year? I like to see how it compares to a program say West Virginia or Purdue.

(04-18-2011 02:04 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:01 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 01:56 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  You're telling me that within months of a new tv contract needing to be signed is when they can legally shop the market. That seems like way to short of a window to just be starting to dance with a new partner. I have to think they get close to a year on the open market.

No, the Basketball contract has an extra year on it; that is the problem. The football contract ends in 2013 I believe, and basketball in 2014, with the negotiating window generally started one year before that. The above talks are referring to startin the renegotaiton window earlier (which allows only ESPN to negotiate) than normal, which would be 2012 for football, and 2013 for basketball. However, if you want to shop both together, you have to wait until you can legally shop basketball too. It was a nifty little thing ESPN put in there.

Ahah....good point, and nice strategy indeed by those prickelly thorns. Oh well, we don't want to be the next C-USA I'm sure.

I don't think that's the case, in the sense both end in the same year. MBK contract started a year earlier than the football side but both end at the same time.

Not sure if this has been posted or not.

http://vuhoops.com/2011/04/18/big-east-b...with-espn/

Quote:ESPN currently pays the Big East an average of $36 million annually as part of a six-year contract for all of its sports. While initial numbers being floated may not be as rich as the ESPN/ACC deal that was struck last spring, it would still mark a major boost for the 16-team conference.

Sources indicate the early numbers range from $110 million to $130 million annually, but conference sources describe those figures as a starting point for any negotiation. The initial offer would fall short of the $155 million annual payout the ACC will receive from ESPN in a deal that kicks in this summer. But the bold push by ESPN shows the network wants to lock down college rights in the face of increasing competition.

the time is right now with TCU coming to town and UCONN WINNING THE championship in all of college bb, get it while the gittin is good. i say go on the open market and match what the ACC gets 155m.

isn't this why tags was hired

I'm curious to what the Big East's opening numbers are.

LOL. Yep thi shuts up all those that kept talking about the demise of the Big East and how we would be lucky to get same numbers that we had. I know there have been plenty on the CUSA board talking about how CUSA was on its way to catching the Big East. LOL

Indiana hasn't been to a final four since they beat SYR by 1 Keith Smart jump shot in 1987.

College basketball now is all about the Big East with UNC and DUKe, Kentucky and nobody from the west coast. People across the country complain about getting too many BE games and seeing too much BE coverage. They call it the East Coast Bias.

Indiana died when they fired Bobby Knight. Knight is the man. He can smack my kid around any day-- Just kidding.

------
Back on TOPIC please.

I hope the FB schools are also getting quotes on how much a deal will be worth if they add say, UCF or some other schools and dropped the BB schools.


BB season is only five months FB season is the other five. FB keeps the BE's other major sports on television for the first part of the school year. I see very little to hurt the FB school's BB clout. If Louisville played Memphis, Kentucky but heck not Indiana, each year they will pack a house. The UK game has a national audience and UofL is the big BB money maker but SYR is not too far behind. SYR/BC will be a sellout at the dome. We get to boo them in the first half and catch up on some sleep in the second half.

(04-18-2011 02:27 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  UCONN definitely separated itself from the next group. BTW, do you have TV rating numbers for Indiana this year? I like to see how it compares to a program say West Virginia or Purdue.

I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that Indiana draws higher ratings than schools that are better than them in a particular season. What I'm saying is that they are one of the few schools that still draw larger than average attention even when they're bad.

Anyway, here are some stats from the one weekend this year where Indiana was playing on CBS along with 4 other games (which is all that I've seen published publicly involving Indiana):

Sat, 2/26 - Syracuse/Georgetown - 1.1 rating (1.630 million viewers)
Sat, 2/26 - BYU/San Diego State - 1.6 (2.460 million)
Sat, 2/26 - Florida/Kentucky - 1.6 (2.435 million)

Sun, 2/27 - Pitt/Louisville - 1.2 (1.671 million)
Sun, 2/27 - Indiana/Ohio State - 1.3 (1.866 million)

http://www.sportsmediawatch.net/2011/03/...-last.html

The Indiana/Ohio State game was by FAR the worst of those matchups on paper even heading into that game (and it held true to form as a 21-point blowout), yet it still drew a pretty good rating considering the mismatch and got higher ratings than 2 BE games on CBS (once again, all on the same weekend). When Indiana is actually playing well, its ratings are right up there at the top.

(04-18-2011 02:49 PM)frogman Wrote:  Indiana hasn't been to a final four since they beat SYR by 1 Keith Smart jump shot in 1987.

Incorrect - they made the Final Four in 1992 and 2002 (lost in title game).

(04-18-2011 02:36 PM)animus Wrote:  Not sure if this has been posted or not.

http://vuhoops.com/2011/04/18/big-east-b...with-espn/

Quote:ESPN currently pays the Big East an average of $36 million annually as part of a six-year contract for all of its sports. While initial numbers being floated may not be as rich as the ESPN/ACC deal that was struck last spring, it would still mark a major boost for the 16-team conference.

Sources indicate the early numbers range from $110 million to $130 million annually, but conference sources describe those figures as a starting point for any negotiation. The initial offer would fall short of the $155 million annual payout the ACC will receive from ESPN in a deal that kicks in this summer. But the bold push by ESPN shows the network wants to lock down college rights in the face of increasing competition.

LOL, thats where this thread started from....You moderators, you get in your caves and don't come out....

(04-18-2011 02:38 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  the time is right now with TCU coming to town and UCONN WINNING THE championship in all of college bb, get it while the gittin is good. i say go on the open market and match what the ACC gets 155m.

isn't this why tags was hired

Be aware that going on the open won't happen for at least another year. These deals don't end until June 30, 2013. Based on what I saw in the C-USA contract that ESPN filed as part of their lawsuit, exclusive negotiations wouldn't end until April 30, 2012 at the earliest and both sides can choose to continue to extend that window. I reference that deal b/c C-USA/ESPN negotiation window started on 4/1/10 and would have ended on 4/30/10 for a deal ending 6/30/2011

Also be aware that the Big 12 did not get out of the negotiation window with Fox Sports Media Group and their rights never hit the open market.

BTW, if anyone wants to see how a media contract looks, document 1-1.pdf is C-USA's current contract w/ESPN. The other document is ESPN's complaint. This is the filing that ESPN presented to the Southern District Court in Manhattan to sue C-USA.

http://www.mattsarzsports.com/1-11-cv-02186-WHP.zip

Honestly,

If you want to know how kids think about your programs look at the recruiting numbers. You have to say the top talented kids like Duke, UNC and Kentucky- that is the right here right now. Louisville and SYR draw the best recruits for the BEast and maintain a presence in the top15 for most of the season.

Just like football, the top players go to the best schools where they can play with talent equal to thier own and get to the professional level without too much stress.

It's not SYR fault Fab Melo couldn't play his freshman year. Hepefully he comes back a monster. But kids still respect the SYR program and SYR is actually recruiting better these days than ever before. SYr has also placed a number of lottery picks in the NBA these past few seasons.

_----

But on the other topic of this thread-

FB schools don't need to sign nothing without exploring all the possibilities. Nothing the BB schools would like more than to tie us in on another contract. Wouldn't surpise if Porvidence management initiated these early talks at this very troubled point in the BE BB/FB relationship.

(04-18-2011 03:03 PM)frogman Wrote:  But on the other topic of this thread-

FB schools don't need to sign nothing without exploring all the possibilities. Nothing the BB schools would like more than to tie us in on another contract. Wouldn't surpise if Porvidence management initiated these early talks at this very troubled point in the BE BB/FB relationship.

Be aware that when the last media deal was signed, ADs & presidents from the football playing members and the non-football playing members were at the table as negotiators. No reason to believe it will be different.

One of those negotiators was Tom Jurich, UofL's AD. I'll find the list.

EDIT: http://www.bigeastboards.com/bbs/viewtop...4f8435df2c

Quote:Commissioner Tranghese concluded his press conference by publicly thanking the BIG EAST Conference television negotiation committee consisting of Athletic Directors Daryl Gross (Syracuse), Vince Nicastro (Villanova), Bob Mulcahy (Rutgers), Tom Jurich (Louisville) and Jeff Hathaway (Connecticut) as well as Kevin O'Malley and Senior Associate Commissioner John Marinatto and Associate Commissioners Tom Odjakjian, Donna DeMarco, Dan Gavitt and Nick Carparelli for their leadership, assistance and support in reaching this new agreement

So of the schools represented, four of the five play football in the conference.

(04-18-2011 02:59 PM)mattsarz Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:38 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  the time is right now with TCU coming to town and UCONN WINNING THE championship in all of college bb, get it while the gittin is good. i say go on the open market and match what the ACC gets 155m.

isn't this why tags was hired

Be aware that going on the open won't happen for at least another year. These deals don't end until June 30, 2013. Based on what I saw in the C-USA contract that ESPN filed as part of their lawsuit, exclusive negotiations wouldn't end until April 30, 2012 at the earliest and both sides can choose to continue to extend that window. I reference that deal b/c C-USA/ESPN negotiation window started on 4/1/10 and would have ended on 4/30/10 for a deal ending 6/30/2011

Also be aware that the Big 12 did not get out of the negotiation window with Fox Sports Media Group and their rights never hit the open market.

By that sample of C-USA lets give the exclusive window more than 1 month for us being BCS vs them being Non AQ....wouldn't that exclusive window with ESPN be something like:

4/1/12 thru lets say 6/31/12.....

Giving the Big East the open market time of of 7/1/12 thru at least 12/31/12 to shop? Is that enough time and a fairly accurate window to openly shop?