I don't know much about them to be honest, but they are a quality academic institution, has a good history of athletic success prior to their fall from grace, and on surface appear to be more respectable than Rice or Tulane. If this has been discussed already, apologies. Would SMU strike the right balance between academics and athletics that would make the BE brass happy? Thoughts?

I like SMU. I think they'd be good rivals with TCU and with BCS money, could be very good in the future.

Just realized that SMU played in the CUSA championship game. That's pretty respectable for a potential candidate with a solid academic background. Plus they could help other BE teams get into Texas for recruiting and marketing of their schools for more students from a growing state. I agree that if they are given a chance with BCS money that they could flourish! Since they were a top notch football school decades ago, they may be able to grow a significant fanbase based on their past accomplishments alone if they can start generating more positive success at the next level.

Well SMU will house the George W Bush Presidential Library........so does that help them or hurt them???

What is the tipping point a program would have to bring to not have their academic deficiencies but have a plan in place to upgrade that area. Would adding 1/2 mil to a mil a year per team in football be enough. For example ECU or Memphis if they boost the tv contract from 9.5 to 10 or even up to 11 vs SMU only bringing a small bump if at all?

What is your minimum amount boost plus academic short term and long term goals for that school?

I have no problem with filling in the gaps for TCU with another Texas team, but I think it should be with the addition of Memphis to help fill in the WEST gap for LOUISVILLE. We need that WEST rival!

(04-30-2011 04:13 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  For example ECU or Memphis if they boost the tv contract from 9.5 to 10 or even up to 11 vs SMU only bringing a small bump if at all?

There isn't much we know about this round of expansion, but what has been clear is that the Big East is deliberately targeting large markets. Based on that strategy, I'd think that SMU would actually have the advantage over both ECU and Memphis in boosting TV revenue.

As far as I can see, the major benefit of SMU is in the way you approach the Texas market.

TCU's following is in Fort Worth. Having TCU =/= having Dallas. The two cities are part of the same metro area but over an hour apart downtown to downtown and light years from each other culturally. Fort Worth has true Texas culture and character. Dallas desperately wants to be a East Coast city.

Having both SMU and TCU would give the BE both markets , but more importantly, it would give them real synergy, ready to go. I'm sure TCU could develop a rivalry with UH by default, but they already have a big and old rivalry with SMU. That rivalry, Dallas vs FW, would make the Big East relevant in Texas' largest metro area.

Taking Houston would look better on paper, but in reality, penetration in Texas would be a mile wide and an inch deep unless they go on a major tear. It could happen, but given that Houston has never been able to dominate a division full of tiny private schools and a UT satellite school that is almost in Mexico, their domination of the BE may be a while in coming.

Bringing on SMU would create some synergies for Olympic sports, as a team could fly into DFW, play two games in one weekend, and fly back out. I'm sure if the Big East ever had any designs on any of the area bowls (Cotton, TicketCity, etc.), having two teams from the area would be enormous leverage.

You ask about SMU then say you know nothing about them. Then you go on talking about their academics and athletics and how they compare to other C-USA schools. Right.

Anyway. SMU would probably be a good fit but there are a few things that keep it at a disadvantage. It is a private school with a small enrollment. I do not know if that would hurt them in the long run. I doubt it but you never know.
Their basketball program is a big step back from Big East hoops. Lots of work would need to be done there and I am not sure how much money SMU is willing to put there. It has some other sports that would help the Big East but it does not have Lacross.....That is getting big in the North East from what I understand.
Big East is in the Dallas market now. It would make more sense adding Houston.
The only benefit I see would be a travel partner for TCU. I guess another team in Texas is a plus but seeing as to how they are only a few miles away, I doubt the Big East benefits from it.

Conclusion. SMU has no chance of being in The Big East at this time.

(04-30-2011 04:13 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  What is the tipping point a program would have to bring to not have their academic deficiencies but have a plan in place to upgrade that area. Would adding 1/2 mil to a mil a year per team in football be enough. For example ECU or Memphis if they boost the tv contract from 9.5 to 10 or even up to 11 vs SMU only bringing a small bump if at all?

What is your minimum amount boost plus academic short term and long term goals for that school?

Are you sure that Memphis or ECU would bring more money than SMU? From a football point of view, I would say that SMU and ECU were equivalent in 2009 and 2010, and Memphis royally sucked during this time period. Of course, Memphis has BB as an enticement that would be better quality athletically than either FB or BB at SMU and ECU. If a 10th school is added to the BE and the conference does not split, Memphis does not bring much of anything to the conference at all, so I would say that ECU and SMU should rank higher than Memphis on athletics alone.

So if we look at SMU vs ECU, we see that ECU has the better cred in football over the last decade; however, SMU has the better market and are located in a better recruiting ground overall. In light of this, I would not be sure that ECU could add more value to an ESPN contract than ECU. When you compare academics, it is clear that SMU ranks better. I didn't mean to draw this response out, but the bottom line is that I don't think it is a given that ECU would make the BE more money than SMU. So with that in mind, I think the academic comparison you put forth is moot and you go for the obviously better school. Memphis shouldn't even rate consideration in a hybrid BE conf; however, they should be given serious consideration in the event of a split. That would be a game changer.

Glad major NCAA Vilolations don't scare you guys

(04-30-2011 04:37 PM)Neue Regel Wrote:  You ask about SMU then say you know nothing about them. Then you go on talking about their academics and athletics and how they compare to other C-USA schools. Right.

Anyway. SMU would probably be a good fit but there are a few things that keep it at a disadvantage. It is a private school with a small enrollment. I do not know if that would hurt them in the long run. I doubt it but you never know.
Their basketball program is a big step back from Big East hoops. Lots of work would need to be done there and I am not sure how much money SMU is willing to put there. It has some other sports that would help the Big East but it does not have Lacross.....That is getting big in the North East from what I understand.
Big East is in the Dallas market now. It would make more sense adding Houston.
The only benefit I see would be a travel partner for TCU. I guess another team in Texas is a plus but seeing as to how they are only a few miles away, I doubt the Big East benefits from it.

Conclusion. SMU has no chance of being in The Big East at this time.

What I don't know about them is how much fan support they have, how well does the school support athletics, how good are its facilities, things like that. Anyone can look up their W/L record during the last 2 years and quickly look up their academic rankings too.

What is wrong with you? On another thread, you state you have zero interest in the BE conf and that you dismiss my posts out of hand as "just trolling". Yet here you are, once again, commenting in a BE conf expansion thread, yet again, and responding to another one of my posts, again...

"I would not be sure that ECU could add more value to an ESPN contract as ECU" I think it is time to give the message board a rest miko33.
What is it with you and ECU academics? Anyways. ECU brings Northeastern NC and the Norfolk area of Virginia. SMU brings Dallas. What you fail to understand is even in Dallas SMU is still ranked 3rd in football fan base wise.
The other sports to me are a wash.They all add about the same value. If SMU had Dallas by itself it would be the end of the argument.
You do have a point on the recruiting ground.
As for memphis- They have great sports and a nice fan base. They averaged 30,000 fans at The Liberty Bowl with a 1-10 record. And they are good to great in other sports and have Fed Ex on their side. Don't rule them out.

(04-30-2011 04:59 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:37 PM)Neue Regel Wrote:  You ask about SMU then say you know nothing about them. Then you go on talking about their academics and athletics and how they compare to other C-USA schools. Right.

Anyway. SMU would probably be a good fit but there are a few things that keep it at a disadvantage. It is a private school with a small enrollment. I do not know if that would hurt them in the long run. I doubt it but you never know.
Their basketball program is a big step back from Big East hoops. Lots of work would need to be done there and I am not sure how much money SMU is willing to put there. It has some other sports that would help the Big East but it does not have Lacross.....That is getting big in the North East from what I understand.
Big East is in the Dallas market now. It would make more sense adding Houston.
The only benefit I see would be a travel partner for TCU. I guess another team in Texas is a plus but seeing as to how they are only a few miles away, I doubt the Big East benefits from it.

Conclusion. SMU has no chance of being in The Big East at this time.

What I don't know about them is how much fan support they have, how well does the school support athletics, how good are its facilities, things like that. Anyone can look up their W/L record during the last 2 years and quickly look up their academic rankings too.

What is wrong with you? On another thread, you state you have zero interest in the BE conf and that you dismiss my posts out of hand as "just trolling". Yet here you are, once again, commenting in a BE conf expansion thread, yet again, and responding to another one of my posts, again...

They average about 24,000 fans in football and their basketball fan base is dead in the water right now. The football stadium is really nice but small by college standards, although it was made with expansion in mind. The basketball arena just got the green light for a big renovation. The campus is fantastic and the girls there are freaking hot!
And I find a PITT fan making fun of other Universities fan base, facilities, and records interesting.

(04-30-2011 04:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:13 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  What is the tipping point a program would have to bring to not have their academic deficiencies but have a plan in place to upgrade that area. Would adding 1/2 mil to a mil a year per team in football be enough. For example ECU or Memphis if they boost the tv contract from 9.5 to 10 or even up to 11 vs SMU only bringing a small bump if at all?

What is your minimum amount boost plus academic short term and long term goals for that school?

Are you sure that Memphis or ECU would bring more money than SMU? From a football point of view, I would say that SMU and ECU were equivalent in 2009 and 2010, and Memphis royally sucked during this time period. Of course, Memphis has BB as an enticement that would be better quality athletically than either FB or BB at SMU and ECU. If a 10th school is added to the BE and the conference does not split, Memphis does not bring much of anything to the conference at all, so I would say that ECU and SMU should rank higher than Memphis on athletics alone.

So if we look at SMU vs ECU, we see that ECU has the better cred in football over the last decade; however, SMU has the better market and are located in a better recruiting ground overall. In light of this, I would not be sure that ECU could add more value to an ESPN contract than ECU. When you compare academics, it is clear that SMU ranks better. I didn't mean to draw this response out, but the bottom line is that I don't think it is a given that ECU would make the BE more money than SMU. So with that in mind, I think the academic comparison you put forth is moot and you go for the obviously better school. Memphis shouldn't even rate consideration in a hybrid BE conf; however, they should be given serious consideration in the event of a split. That would be a game changer.

Getting back to the question at hand, take out the 3 schools I listed and put in 3 schools without a name.....now answer the original question.

Neue Regel Wrote:
Big East is in the Dallas market now. It would make more sense adding Houston.
The only benefit I see would be a travel partner for TCU. I guess another team in Texas is a plus but seeing as to how they are only a few miles away, I doubt the Big East benefits from it.

_________________________________________________________
I don't have anything against smu, but I have to agree with NeueRegel. If the Big East wants to make a big splash ($$$) in TEXAS than HOUSTON is the better choice. my .02

(04-30-2011 05:13 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:13 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  What is the tipping point a program would have to bring to not have their academic deficiencies but have a plan in place to upgrade that area. Would adding 1/2 mil to a mil a year per team in football be enough. For example ECU or Memphis if they boost the tv contract from 9.5 to 10 or even up to 11 vs SMU only bringing a small bump if at all?

What is your minimum amount boost plus academic short term and long term goals for that school?

Are you sure that Memphis or ECU would bring more money than SMU? From a football point of view, I would say that SMU and ECU were equivalent in 2009 and 2010, and Memphis royally sucked during this time period. Of course, Memphis has BB as an enticement that would be better quality athletically than either FB or BB at SMU and ECU. If a 10th school is added to the BE and the conference does not split, Memphis does not bring much of anything to the conference at all, so I would say that ECU and SMU should rank higher than Memphis on athletics alone.

So if we look at SMU vs ECU, we see that ECU has the better cred in football over the last decade; however, SMU has the better market and are located in a better recruiting ground overall. In light of this, I would not be sure that ECU could add more value to an ESPN contract than ECU. When you compare academics, it is clear that SMU ranks better. I didn't mean to draw this response out, but the bottom line is that I don't think it is a given that ECU would make the BE more money than SMU. So with that in mind, I think the academic comparison you put forth is moot and you go for the obviously better school. Memphis shouldn't even rate consideration in a hybrid BE conf; however, they should be given serious consideration in the event of a split. That would be a game changer.

Getting back to the question at hand, take out the 3 schools I listed and put in 3 schools without a name.....now answer the original question.

So your question is what is more important, $1 million/school more in revenue and questionable academics or the no additional money per school but good academics? Honestly, that is a hard question for me to answer because it would not take into account the potential benefits from intangible items such as how enrollments may be affected via school affiliation, recruiting, etc. At the end of the day, I suppose the money in hand would be better, so the school that would build the contract more should get the nod. However, your assumptions may not bear any water, and SMU may very well enhance the payout on a per team basis and have the better academics. For all we know, ECU may have less money per school and worse academics. We don't know.

A Houston fan thinks HOUSTON is the best choice???

Really though, TCU/UH looks GREAT on paper

You have DFW AND Greater Houston!

Except...you don't.

You have Fort Worth, and a small slice of the Houston pie. Not that those aren't good gets, but its also not as good as it sounds when you say "We have DFW AND Greater Houston!"

I have no idea what the BE thinks would be better: actual penetration (people actually caring about the BE because it puts the big local rivalry on the national stage again) in a large metro area or smaller slices of two separate cities, but that is the difference between the two.

(04-30-2011 05:10 PM)Neue Regel Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:59 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 04:37 PM)Neue Regel Wrote:  You ask about SMU then say you know nothing about them. Then you go on talking about their academics and athletics and how they compare to other C-USA schools. Right.

Anyway. SMU would probably be a good fit but there are a few things that keep it at a disadvantage. It is a private school with a small enrollment. I do not know if that would hurt them in the long run. I doubt it but you never know.
Their basketball program is a big step back from Big East hoops. Lots of work would need to be done there and I am not sure how much money SMU is willing to put there. It has some other sports that would help the Big East but it does not have Lacross.....That is getting big in the North East from what I understand.
Big East is in the Dallas market now. It would make more sense adding Houston.
The only benefit I see would be a travel partner for TCU. I guess another team in Texas is a plus but seeing as to how they are only a few miles away, I doubt the Big East benefits from it.

Conclusion. SMU has no chance of being in The Big East at this time.

What I don't know about them is how much fan support they have, how well does the school support athletics, how good are its facilities, things like that. Anyone can look up their W/L record during the last 2 years and quickly look up their academic rankings too.

What is wrong with you? On another thread, you state you have zero interest in the BE conf and that you dismiss my posts out of hand as "just trolling". Yet here you are, once again, commenting in a BE conf expansion thread, yet again, and responding to another one of my posts, again...

They average about 24,000 fans in football and their basketball fan base is dead in the water right now. The football stadium is really nice but small by college standards, although it was made with expansion in mind. The basketball arena just got the green light for a big renovation. The campus is fantastic and the girls there are freaking hot!
And I find a PITT fan making fun of other Universities fan base, facilities, and records interesting.

You know what I find interesting? You continuing to post on subjects that you claim to have no interest in at all.