(05-29-2011 11:30 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 11:24 PM)PirateNation Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 11:21 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  How the hell do you people come up with these stats...

????

lol I just find it funny how people come up with random stats that make their school look good. :domokun:

Anyone can play with numbers to make their school look better.

Bowl games past 10 seasons...
Memphis: 2 wins, 3 losses
ECU: 1 win, 5 losses

See, I can play too...and no, I'm not trying to pimp my school. I'm just pointing out the lunacy in compiling random stats to pat yourself on the back.

I'll admit that many ECU fans are as good as anyone when it comes to picking stats that paint our program in the most favorable light possible. BUT one thing is for sure, you can't fake the fan support that ECU has built over the years. This is something I believe the BE needs badly. Everybody on this forum can argue and fudge stats all they want to make a program appear to be the most successful but none of them other than BYU can demonstrate the support of the fans like ECU.

(05-31-2011 08:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  I'll admit that many ECU fans are as good as anyone when it comes to picking stats that paint our program in the most favorable light possible. BUT one thing is for sure, you can't fake the fan support that ECU has built over the years. This is something I believe the BE needs badly. Everybody on this forum can argue and fudge stats all they want to make a program appear to be the most successful but none of them other than BYU can demonstrate the support of the fans like ECU.

...as long as you're winning. Those attendance numbers fell to around 30k during the John Thompson (and early Skip Holtz) era.

My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. That's probably about the same as Memphis' average since you got the Liberty Bowl.

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. That's probably about the same as Memphis' all time average.

There was a lot of baggage besides the losses. We had an AD that got rid of a coach that was well liked by many. That coach sat around Greenville collecting checks rather than finding a new job. We had a Chancellor that was ran out of town. I suspect the attendance would have been higher if all those other factors were not in play.

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. I can tell you that I've been to Memphis games while I lived in TN and the fan support for football is pathetic.

See, now you're trying to get personal. Our attendance has certainly declined over the past few horrible seasons...but when we were winning, we were regularly putting 40k+ in the seats. If you look at the list of highest attended games in CUSA...there's a lot of Memphis on that list.

Anyway, I wasn't taking any shots at ECU, just pointing out that you guys often overlook those years when talking about attendance.

I actually agree that ECU has good fan support. I think not being in a large metro area helps significantly. But I also think the numbers you guys quote for attendance shows the "when times are good" period.

(05-31-2011 09:15 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. That's probably about the same as Memphis' all time average.

There was a lot of baggage besides the losses. We had an AD that got rid of a coach that was well liked by many. That coach sat around Greenville collecting checks rather than finding a new job. We had a Chancellor that was ran out of town. I suspect the attendance would have been higher if all those other factors were not in play.

Yeah I totally understand that. It's funny how other team's fans like to point out a 2 yr snapshot of the JT yrs as a discredit to our program when a 30K average still smokes many of the other school's current attendence numbers.
Dowdy Ficklen Stadium Expansions
1978 - 20K to 35K
1998 - 35K to 43K
2010 - 43K to 50K
2015/2016 - 50K to 58-60K (approved / planned expansion)

(05-31-2011 09:18 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. I can tell you that I've been to Memphis games while I lived in TN and the fan support for football is pathetic.

See, now you're trying to get personal. Our attendance has certainly declined over the past few horrible seasons...but when we were winning, we were regularly putting 40k+ in the seats. If you look at the list of highest attended games in CUSA...there's a lot of Memphis on that list.

Anyway, I wasn't taking any shots at ECU, just pointing out that you guys often overlook those years when talking about attendance.

I actually agree that ECU has good fan support. I think not being in a large metro area helps significantly. But I also think the numbers you guys quote for attendance shows the "when times are good" period.

No, I'm pretty sure what you were trying to imply. See my post regarding stadium expansions. Evidence doesn't lend itself to fair weather fans in Greenville.

(05-31-2011 09:30 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:18 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. I can tell you that I've been to Memphis games while I lived in TN and the fan support for football is pathetic.

See, now you're trying to get personal. Our attendance has certainly declined over the past few horrible seasons...but when we were winning, we were regularly putting 40k+ in the seats. If you look at the list of highest attended games in CUSA...there's a lot of Memphis on that list.

Anyway, I wasn't taking any shots at ECU, just pointing out that you guys often overlook those years when talking about attendance.

I actually agree that ECU has good fan support. I think not being in a large metro area helps significantly. But I also think the numbers you guys quote for attendance shows the "when times are good" period.

No, I'm pretty sure what you were trying to imply. See my post regarding stadium expansions. Evidence doesn't lend itself to fair weather fans in Greenville.

Oh, you're pretty sure, huh? Get over yourself.

Unless you're one of the truely elite programs...and rest assured, ECU isn't...every program loses attendance numbers when you fall into the sh!tter. All I was saying is that you weren't showing the whole picture...and it apparently struck a nerve.

(05-31-2011 09:41 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  Unless you're one of the truely elite programs...and rest assured, ECU isn't...every program loses attendance numbers when you fall into the sh!tter. All I was saying is that you weren't showing the whole picture...and it apparently struck a nerve.

Even the elite programs will take a dip in attendance if you crap the bed.

(05-31-2011 09:18 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:08 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  My bad.... 30K still shows up to watch a team go 3-21 over the course of 2 seasons. That's pretty damn good regardless of your opinion. I can tell you that I've been to Memphis games while I lived in TN and the fan support for football is pathetic.

See, now you're trying to get personal. Our attendance has certainly declined over the past few horrible seasons...but when we were winning, we were regularly putting 40k+ in the seats. If you look at the list of highest attended games in CUSA...there's a lot of Memphis on that list.

Anyway, I wasn't taking any shots at ECU, just pointing out that you guys often overlook those years when talking about attendance.

I actually agree that ECU has good fan support. I think not being in a large metro area helps significantly. But I also think the numbers you guys quote for attendance shows the "when times are good" period.

Take a look at these numbers...

Memphis

2000 4-7 31,676 Rip Scherer
2001 5-6 25,722 Tommy West
2002 3-9 29,257 Tommy West
2003 9-4 40,622 Tommy West
2004 8-4 41,175 Tommy West
2005 7-5 39,991 Tommy West
2006 2-10 32,440 Tommy West
2007 7-6 29,670 Tommy West
2008 6-7 25,003 Tommy West
2009 2-10 25,795 Tommy West
2010 1-11 23,918 Larry Porter

East Carolina
2000 8-4 36,290 Steve Logan
2001 6-6 37,337 Steve Logan
2002 4-8 29,629 Steve Logan
2003 1-11 33,012 John Thompson
2004 2-4 30,684 John Thompson
2005 5-6 33,046 Skip Holtz
2006 7-6 37,168 Skip Holtz
2007 8-5 41,537 Skip Holtz
2008 9-5 42,016 Skip Holtz
2009 9-5 41,742 Skip Holtz
2010 6-7 49,665 Ruffin McNeill

Say what you want but there are glaring differences. ECU's only dip came at a time of program turmoil. On top of all the Chancellor, AD, Coach controversy from 2002-4 we also got passed over for expansion. Many felt that was the final blow for ECU as a non-AQ. It didn't take long for that mindset to erase. With 4 coaches and all that turnover it was only during that short period when the last ACC/BE expansion took place that we had the decline. You can call that fair weather but I think folks show up even in the bad years...it was only the threat of extinction that caused the exodus. Trends a re important too. The swing down was very brief. There is a noticeable upswing for a sustained period of time even with a coaching change.

Look at Memphis' numbers. Your attendencae definitely ebbs and flows with success. The problem is those numbers need to stay up (relatively) no matter what.

ECU's worst average attendance in the last decade was 29,629 for the 2002 season, with the infamous Friday night game vs Cincinnati drawing a season low of 18,125... we won four games that season. The following year, we went 1-11 and attendance went up to 33,012.

An average of 29,629 - our lowest average in the last decade - would have ranked 3rd best in C-USA in 2010.

apex...I wasn't comparing the two. Nowhere did I say Memphis had better fan support.

The thing I like about your post is that you include all the numbers.

This right here is excellent and worth beating your chest over.
2007 8-5 41,537 Skip Holtz
2008 9-5 42,016 Skip Holtz
2009 9-5 41,742 Skip Holtz
2010 6-7 49,665 Ruffin McNeill

This right here is very good...for a CUSA team...but not quite the same story as the ones above.
2000 8-4 36,290 Steve Logan
2001 6-6 37,337 Steve Logan
2002 4-8 29,629 Steve Logan
2003 1-11 33,012 John Thompson
2004 2-4 30,684 John Thompson
2005 5-6 33,046 Skip Holtz
2006 7-6 37,168 Skip Holtz

Now, Memphis vs. ECU football attendance. Memphis has showed it was capable of putting 50k+ in the stands against Louisville when times were good...we also showed we were capable of puttling less than 5k in the stands against you when times were horrible. You guys talk about the JT years having other factors at play, our 2009 game against ECU had the motherload of mitigating factors with the biggest one being fan disgust over Tommy West NOT having been fired. If you felt like looking at Memphis message boards prior to that game, there was A LOT of talk about intentionally skipping as a statement.

Anyway, that's beside the point...my original point is to not quote the best years and claim that as the norm...especially when the "ugly side" for ECU isn't bad at all. I would say that ECU could count on 32k-35k being hardcore, there at all costs, fans...with an additional 8k-15k boost when it's exciting to be a Pirate. I would say that Memphis could count on 24k-26k with an additional 15k-20k boost when it's exciting to be a Tiger.

(05-30-2011 06:11 PM)ECU-DMB Fanatic Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 11:34 AM)West Is the Best Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 04:12 PM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  Hard to pass up a school that already puts 50k in the seats each saturday with plans to expand to 60k within 5 years. Can any of the other non-bcs candidates besides BYU make that claim?

Combine this with a small TV market, low ratings against other NC and insignificant numbers across the nation.

It is a shame for ECU as the Pirates have a strong program with rabid fans.

Copied my post from another thread as it appears appropriate here as well:


Do you have any proof to support your TV ratings statement????? I would love to have a link to these TV ratings so I could see for myself!!!! I suspect as usual you are just making assumptions and have no proof or data to back this statement. Also even if it were the case how would that be any different than Houston
and SMU in the state if Texas???? How would it be any different from UCF in Florida???? I suspect but
have no proof that ECU performs just as well if not better in TV ratings against the BCS programs in our state as SMU, Houston, and UCF. I am not sure why you love to try and discredit ECU in the subtle way that you do but it gets a little annoying. While you have a right to your opinion on matters I do not understand why in the world you have to try and act like you actually know something for fact when all you are doing is giving people your opinion. You spent all last year on the CUSA board making statements saying that the Big East was not going to expand and if they did it would not include any CUSA teams. Now when it
appears your team may have a chance to move on to the Big East your attitude on the subject has really
changed. Quit trying to act like you know things as fact and just admit anything you post is your opinion or just rumor you made up in your own mind.

It's easy to determine the kids on this board from the adults by the childish attacks if they don't agree with a post. Again, you prove you are one of the kids because you clearly have ignored the positive posts I've made in reference to ECU. Further, I have seen reports pertaining to TV markets, projected revenues, school budgets, schools reputations in regard to broadcast and revenues etc. And no, they are not on the internet for obvious reasons. I deal with the facts of the stuation.

I can tell you this, the adults at your school all accept the fact that ECU is in a small TV market, and little name recognition outside of NC. They are well aware that this one issue will most likely prevent ECU from moving to a BCS conference. They are also well aware that in NC, ECU comes in 5th behind UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF with fan interest. There have been many studies over the years that support these facts.

(05-31-2011 12:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  I can tell you this, the adults at your school all accept the fact that ECU is in a small TV market, and little name recognition outside of NC. They are well aware that this one issue will most likely prevent ECU from moving to a BCS conference. They are also well aware that in NC, ECU comes in 5th behind UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF with fan interest. There have been many studies over the years that support these facts.

So you are basically say that if sonmeone doesn't agree with your opinion they aren't an adult???

This paragraph is opinion at best. Greenville may be a small market. No one disgrees with that. But many people, including some not associated with ECU, believe ECU's market stretches far beyond Greenville. While many believe that ECU hasn't been looked at fairly when it comes to market place, they only believe an myopic look at the 'Greenville only' market may cost them a shot...not a well investigated look into what ECU truly delivers on (yes, an opinion but just as valid as yours). We also believe the Big East is doing a better job at seeing what ECU delivers. That may or may not equate to an invite. But I can tell you without a doubt, there aren't too many people at East Carolina who would believe for one second that ECU falls 5th in line in fan support behind the other four schools you mentioned. Mind you, we're talking football only. The other sport matters nothing at all during football season or with what people with watch during the fall. There haven't been any studies over the years that support what you say about football interest in the state of NC.

(05-31-2011 12:52 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 12:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  I can tell you this, the adults at your school all accept the fact that ECU is in a small TV market, and little name recognition outside of NC. They are well aware that this one issue will most likely prevent ECU from moving to a BCS conference. They are also well aware that in NC, ECU comes in 5th behind UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF with fan interest. There have been many studies over the years that support these facts.

So you are basically say that if sonmeone doesn't agree with your opinion they aren't an adult???

This paragraph is opinion at best. Greenville may be a small market. No one disgrees with that. But many people, including some not associated with ECU, believe ECU's market stretches far beyond Greenville. While many believe that ECU hasn't been looked at fairly when it comes to market place, they only believe an myopic look at the 'Greenville only' market may cost them a shot...not a well investigated look into what ECU truly delivers on (yes, an opinion but just as valid as yours). We also believe the Big East is doing a better job at seeing what ECU delivers. That may or may not equate to an invite. But I can tell you without a doubt, there aren't too many people at East Carolina who would believe for one second that ECU falls 5th in line in fan support behind the other four schools you mentioned. Mind you, we're talking football only. The other sport matters nothing at all during football season or with what people with watch during the fall. There haven't been any studies over the years that support what you say about football interest in the state of NC.

It is the way a person responds that reflects as them being a child.

The studies are performed by experts, not internet banter and wishes of 20 somethingyear old ECU fans who ignore the facts and attack posters they do not agree with. An adult deals with info they do not care for by addressing the issue. A child will attack the issues and discredit it.

(05-31-2011 11:27 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  The thing I like about your post is that you include all the numbers.

This right here is excellent and worth beating your chest over.
2007 8-5 41,537 Skip Holtz
2008 9-5 42,016 Skip Holtz
2009 9-5 41,742 Skip Holtz
2010 6-7 49,665 Ruffin McNeill

This right here is very good...for a CUSA team...but not quite the same story as the ones above.
2000 8-4 36,290 Steve Logan
2001 6-6 37,337 Steve Logan
2002 4-8 29,629 Steve Logan
2003 1-11 33,012 John Thompson
2004 2-4 30,684 John Thompson
2005 5-6 33,046 Skip Holtz
2006 7-6 37,168 Skip Holtz

I think you are over emphasizing it. 2000, 2001 and 2006 were all decent years for attendance even though we didn't field the greatest of teams. That fits squarly with the norm and the trend of where our attendance had been going in the early 2000s and continued to go in the mid-late 2000s. Only the years bolded are where we had issues. Not quite the norm or the obvious trend that was happening.

(05-31-2011 11:27 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  ...our 2009 game against ECU had the motherload of mitigating factors with the biggest one being fan disgust over Tommy West NOT having been fired. If you felt like looking at Memphis message boards prior to that game, there was A LOT of talk about intentionally skipping as a statement.

What other motherload of mitigating factors (besides West) were leading to fan disgust with Memphis football? Were you having leadership issues (beyond huge if you know anything about what happened at ECU) that stretched from Chancellor to AD to Coach(es)? Just the West thing is not comparable IMO.

(05-31-2011 11:27 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  Anyway, that's beside the point...my original point is to not quote the best years and claim that as the norm...especially when the "ugly side" for ECU isn't bad at all. I would say that ECU could count on 32k-35k being hardcore, there at all costs, fans...with an additional 8k-15k boost when it's exciting to be a Pirate. I would say that Memphis could count on 24k-26k with an additional 15k-20k boost when it's exciting to be a Tiger.

IMO, the numbers clearly show we had a trend going, hiccupped and then continued the trend. The end of Logan to the start of Holtz was a dark period for us. We'd love to forget it...but it hardly represents what is the norm. I think it's quite fair to show what we've done as the norm...especially when it does include non-winning seasons of 6-6 and 6-7.

(05-31-2011 12:59 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 12:52 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 12:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  I can tell you this, the adults at your school all accept the fact that ECU is in a small TV market, and little name recognition outside of NC. They are well aware that this one issue will most likely prevent ECU from moving to a BCS conference. They are also well aware that in NC, ECU comes in 5th behind UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF with fan interest. There have been many studies over the years that support these facts.

So you are basically say that if sonmeone doesn't agree with your opinion they aren't an adult???

This paragraph is opinion at best. Greenville may be a small market. No one disgrees with that. But many people, including some not associated with ECU, believe ECU's market stretches far beyond Greenville. While many believe that ECU hasn't been looked at fairly when it comes to market place, they only believe an myopic look at the 'Greenville only' market may cost them a shot...not a well investigated look into what ECU truly delivers on (yes, an opinion but just as valid as yours). We also believe the Big East is doing a better job at seeing what ECU delivers. That may or may not equate to an invite. But I can tell you without a doubt, there aren't too many people at East Carolina who would believe for one second that ECU falls 5th in line in fan support behind the other four schools you mentioned. Mind you, we're talking football only. The other sport matters nothing at all during football season or with what people with watch during the fall. There haven't been any studies over the years that support what you say about football interest in the state of NC.

It is the way a person responds that reflects as them being a child.

The studies are performed by experts, not internet banter and wishes of 20 somethingyear old ECU fans who ignore the facts and attack posters they do not agree with. An adult deals with info they do not care for by addressing the issue. A child will attack the issues and discredit it.

But you haven't presented anything other than opinions stated as facts. You also stated what "adults" would think at our university. If you feel you deal with facts then present them with support. So far, you've presented exactly what you chastise the other poster for...internet banter. I addressed the issue and I don't agree with what you said. According to you...that means I'm not an adult. Let's be fair. If you want to claim the things you say...which are broad, speculative and less founded in facts than what most ECU fans have provided here over the course of time (because they have been drilled by BE fans to provide facts to help support their claims) then by all means...post links to the studies and we can go from there.

(05-31-2011 12:18 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 06:11 PM)ECU-DMB Fanatic Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 11:34 AM)West Is the Best Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 04:12 PM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  Hard to pass up a school that already puts 50k in the seats each saturday with plans to expand to 60k within 5 years. Can any of the other non-bcs candidates besides BYU make that claim?

Combine this with a small TV market, low ratings against other NC and insignificant numbers across the nation.

It is a shame for ECU as the Pirates have a strong program with rabid fans.

Copied my post from another thread as it appears appropriate here as well:


Do you have any proof to support your TV ratings statement????? I would love to have a link to these TV ratings so I could see for myself!!!! I suspect as usual you are just making assumptions and have no proof or data to back this statement. Also even if it were the case how would that be any different than Houston
and SMU in the state if Texas???? How would it be any different from UCF in Florida???? I suspect but
have no proof that ECU performs just as well if not better in TV ratings against the BCS programs in our state as SMU, Houston, and UCF. I am not sure why you love to try and discredit ECU in the subtle way that you do but it gets a little annoying. While you have a right to your opinion on matters I do not understand why in the world you have to try and act like you actually know something for fact when all you are doing is giving people your opinion. You spent all last year on the CUSA board making statements saying that the Big East was not going to expand and if they did it would not include any CUSA teams. Now when it
appears your team may have a chance to move on to the Big East your attitude on the subject has really
changed. Quit trying to act like you know things as fact and just admit anything you post is your opinion or just rumor you made up in your own mind.

I can tell you this, the adults at your school all accept the fact that ECU is in a small TV market, and little name recognition outside of NC. They are well aware that this one issue will most likely prevent ECU from moving to a BCS conference. They are also well aware that in NC, ECU comes in 5th behind UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF with fan interest. There have been many studies over the years that support these facts.

Throughout this thread I have present information about television markets (showing that ECU is in the 25th largest), fan support (ECU had over a 10 share in N.C. for the Liberty Bowl); and merchandising sales (ECU is 51st nationally; even ahead of your beloved Cougars). Despite the information provided that shows that your points were incorrect, you continue to make invalid statements.

http://www.ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?ti...pid6548983

(05-29-2011 09:31 PM)PirateNation Wrote:  Yea, we only averaged 49,665 in a year with low expectations (many said we would only win 2 games), losing the most players in the nation and finishing with 6 wins. Says a lot about the state of our program.

It says every fan ECU has in the country shows up in Greenville on game day. Not much of a market outside the area.