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Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
What are the logistical hurdles to 5 games a day?

Seems like that maybe preferable to a 6th day.

I’m a football fan, so not sure how it all works.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2023 06:56 PM by Crayton.)
10-26-2023 06:52 PM
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tf8693 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
(10-26-2023 06:52 PM)Crayton Wrote:  What are the logistical hurdles to 5 games a day?

Seems like that maybe preferable to a 6th day.

I’m a football fan, so not sure how it all works.

Generally done in two sessions with two games to a session. One afternoon and the other evening.
10-26-2023 07:10 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
(10-26-2023 06:29 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I would be in favor of making it an exclusive event (not all programs participate), but I sincerely doubt that ADs and Presidents would be in favor of that. I'd be curious to see if we inevitably see a model for mega conferences to hold a basketball tournament within the same city but at different venues. Not sure it would even be doable, but why not consider using an NFL-sized indoor stadium and just setting up two courts for the duration of the week (especially if the Carolina Panthers are successful long-term in building a new stadium). Even Washington is likely to get a new stadium in the coming years.

I agree that I would be extremely surprised if the ACC (or anyone else that has expanded like the Big Ten) would leave anyone out because the Presidents are caring about an entirely different set of priorities than the fans. There is only one purpose for the existence of any conference basketball tournament: a pure unadulterated money grab. If conferences actually cared about what was competitively fair, then they would just rely on the results of 20+ conference regular season games and conference tournaments wouldn’t exist at all in the first place.

I’m doubtful that we’ll get to a point where multiple venues are held for the mega-conferences. TV time slot exclusivity is so important that it ends up defeating the main advantage of having multiple venues (which is to be able to hold multiple games at the same time).

Obviously the money is the most important driver.

But what if lower ranked teams beat the bubble teams in a conference tounarment, resulting in loss of NCAA bids (and money!)?

I think the ACC will go with the 16 team double bye model.

Bubble teams losing has always been an inherent risk of a conference tournament.

I guess I see little point in inviting 16 teams but then not inviting the last 2. If it’s *truly* more exclusive (e.g. top 12 where there’s a legit race to avoid being in the bottom 6 make the conference tournament), then I at least see the rationale. Only not inviting the last 2 or last 4 seems to be just serving no purpose other than pouring salt on the wound of the bottom programs in the league.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2023 07:39 PM by Frank the Tank.)
10-26-2023 07:38 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
Odds the ACC ever holds a tournament in Dallas or San Francisco? B1G in LA?
10-26-2023 07:43 PM
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tf8693 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
(10-26-2023 07:38 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 06:29 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I would be in favor of making it an exclusive event (not all programs participate), but I sincerely doubt that ADs and Presidents would be in favor of that. I'd be curious to see if we inevitably see a model for mega conferences to hold a basketball tournament within the same city but at different venues. Not sure it would even be doable, but why not consider using an NFL-sized indoor stadium and just setting up two courts for the duration of the week (especially if the Carolina Panthers are successful long-term in building a new stadium). Even Washington is likely to get a new stadium in the coming years.

I agree that I would be extremely surprised if the ACC (or anyone else that has expanded like the Big Ten) would leave anyone out because the Presidents are caring about an entirely different set of priorities than the fans. There is only one purpose for the existence of any conference basketball tournament: a pure unadulterated money grab. If conferences actually cared about what was competitively fair, then they would just rely on the results of 20+ conference regular season games and conference tournaments wouldn’t exist at all in the first place.

I’m doubtful that we’ll get to a point where multiple venues are held for the mega-conferences. TV time slot exclusivity is so important that it ends up defeating the main advantage of having multiple venues (which is to be able to hold multiple games at the same time).

Obviously the money is the most important driver.

But what if lower ranked teams beat the bubble teams in a conference tounarment, resulting in loss of NCAA bids (and money!)?

I think the ACC will go with the 16 team double bye model.

Bubble teams losing has always been an inherent risk of a conference tournament.

I guess I see little point in inviting 16 teams but then not inviting the last 2. If it’s *truly* more exclusive (e.g. top 12 where there’s a legit race to avoid being in the bottom 6 make the conference tournament), then I at least see the rationale. Only not inviting the last 2 or last 4 seems to be just serving no purpose other than pouring salt on the wound of the bottom programs in the league.

The only legitimate rationale would be to deny the costs associated with an extra day of the tournament. But depending on the TV deal your conference has for its tournament, the extra day actually could be a money maker.
10-26-2023 07:44 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
(10-26-2023 07:43 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Odds the ACC ever holds a tournament in Dallas or San Francisco? B1G in LA?

Big Ten in Las Vegas will almost certainly happen. Even the Pac-12 figured out that Vegas makes more sense for a West Coast tournament location than LA.
10-26-2023 08:02 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Jim Phillips on basketball tournament, expansion
(10-26-2023 07:38 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 06:29 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 02:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-26-2023 01:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I would be in favor of making it an exclusive event (not all programs participate), but I sincerely doubt that ADs and Presidents would be in favor of that. I'd be curious to see if we inevitably see a model for mega conferences to hold a basketball tournament within the same city but at different venues. Not sure it would even be doable, but why not consider using an NFL-sized indoor stadium and just setting up two courts for the duration of the week (especially if the Carolina Panthers are successful long-term in building a new stadium). Even Washington is likely to get a new stadium in the coming years.

I agree that I would be extremely surprised if the ACC (or anyone else that has expanded like the Big Ten) would leave anyone out because the Presidents are caring about an entirely different set of priorities than the fans. There is only one purpose for the existence of any conference basketball tournament: a pure unadulterated money grab. If conferences actually cared about what was competitively fair, then they would just rely on the results of 20+ conference regular season games and conference tournaments wouldn’t exist at all in the first place.

I’m doubtful that we’ll get to a point where multiple venues are held for the mega-conferences. TV time slot exclusivity is so important that it ends up defeating the main advantage of having multiple venues (which is to be able to hold multiple games at the same time).

Obviously the money is the most important driver.

But what if lower ranked teams beat the bubble teams in a conference tounarment, resulting in loss of NCAA bids (and money!)?

I think the ACC will go with the 16 team double bye model.

Bubble teams losing has always been an inherent risk of a conference tournament.

I guess I see little point in inviting 16 teams but then not inviting the last 2. If it’s *truly* more exclusive (e.g. top 12 where there’s a legit race to avoid being in the bottom 6 make the conference tournament), then I at least see the rationale. Only not inviting the last 2 or last 4 seems to be just serving no purpose other than pouring salt on the wound of the bottom programs in the league.

I like the 12 team format but David Teel thinks the 16 team five day format is the most likely.



FWIW, the OBE used to invite only 12 teams when it had 14 basketball teams. VT was a full member for four years and made only one Big East Tournament.
10-26-2023 08:20 PM
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