ccfcpa Wrote:We all know an 8 team football conference is far from "optimal". Personally, I think 10 is a very good number, but we need at least nine schools.

Memphis has two major hurdles to overcome to get an invite.

1) Geography- not a great fit, but you sure can't move the school to make it fit.

2) Academics- ( I know Memphis fans you hate this) Currently, Memphis is a tier 4 school and no BCS conference has a tier 4 member. I am seeing signs on the wall that Memphis has possibly been told to get a Tier 3 rating and you will at least get a football invite.

Hi all

I've never posted on this board so let me first start by saying hi.


as far as the Tier ranking, perhaps I can add some insight. I'm a faculty member at memphis is the psychology department (which by the way is the 6th ranked dept in the nation in terms of external research funding [a little psychology chest thumping]).

Memphis is a Tier 4 school for a few reasons, 1. the demographics of our student population. Having an older average student population leads to lower rankings on some factors regardless of academic quality and 2. our previous administration was uninterested in the ranking. As an example, the previous administration would not even collect information to supply to the group doing the ranking so many of our categories were reported as a zero. It was shameful of our previous administration.

our current President has stated to the faculty that improving our ranking is her Number 1 priority. The faculty have been providing detailed information, for the first time, to allow the administration to move up in the rankings. I'd suspect a Tier 3 ranking within a year or two.

best

dougmat

Thanks for your comments. I hope Memphis is soon in the Big East.

Kit-Cat Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:Well by your logic then the Big Ten should go to 14 and take Pitt, Rutgers, and Connecticut into the fold. PSU in the Big Ten is similar to how some players end up on the Yankees. They might help the bottom line (although not anymore) but they don't fit in with the character of the team (never did). I don't mean to attack you, in fact I look forward to your posts, you're one of the few non-BE folks that come over here and something to say that I want to read.

I try to spend a good deal of time thinking the realignment issues through, especially with the Big East questions because its the shifting geological plate of conference realignment, e.g. moves in the big east effect everyone else.

The Big East has a very modern made for TV design to it, and I think its largely been a success. I can remember when Syracuse was leading the conference and many were calling for the Big East out of the BCS in 1998 with Miami, VT, and BC in the conference. Boy, we're they wrong, as the Big East built itself into a strong conference. Pitt and BC were no better than Rutgers and Temple in attendance 5-10 years ago....they turned it around because of the Big East.

The people come onto this board and think the Big East is going to fall apart totally dismiss the strong national brand of the Big East. Pitt and WVU are continuing to rebound. The new schools UL, UC, and USF have received a recruiting boost by joining the Big East before even a game is played. With ND staying involved, the conference continues to have viable post season opportunities.

I have several friends who went to Penn State and I ask them the question about playing in a Midwestern conference. They admit a nostalgia for yesteryear when ND and PSU were #1 and #2 in recruiting during the early 80's. However, they realize with scholarship reductions its a more competitive landscape nationally these days and there really isn't any turning back. They take pride in playing a strong Big Ten schedule and relate to Michigan and Purdue as rivals. They view those schools as institutional fits, and they think of the old Eastern Independent rivalries with smaller programs like Pitt, WVU, Rutgers as an evolutionary step backwards.

Penn State has a huge Big Ten style Football program and a huge Big Ten style statewide campus system. The cultural difference between Pennsylvania and the Great Lake states isn't that great, its all rustbelt college football land. Now Philly is distinctively east coast and its Penn State territory, but PSU is just as comfortable in a Midwestern conference. No different than Florida State being in the ACC instead of the SEC, really the cultural issue isn't a major difference.

I think the way the realignment is probably going to go is ND ending up in the ACC if economics ever forced them to join a conference, and maybe Syracuse or Rutgers into the Big Ten. The North East college football market is going to continue to be carved up by the Big Ten or the ACC. Its the path of least resistance. The Big Ten has all the bowl agreements Penn State could ever need in place. Starting a new conference with East Coast schools is too costly, and the bottom line is Penn State would be stuck with a bunch of second tier BCS football schools by joining the Big East or an incarnation of it.

I agree with you accept for your last couple of sentences. You call the BE institutions a bunch of second tier bcs schools. As far as I am concerned, penn St has been performing like a second tier bcs school the last few years. That makes them second tier. :D

Quote:Philly will have BE games this Fall. Check the list...more stations will be added.

TV Affliates So Far

-- Thanks for posting Texan Mark....looks like the BE game of the week will still be shown in Boston (thanks UConn), Miami, Philly and VA...even though the BE has no schools in those locals anymore

-- Also its amazing how many stations in Flordia are showing the game of the week....West Palm Beach, Jacksonville etc....that's great :)

Quote:I try to spend a good deal of time thinking the realignment issues through, especially with the Big East questions because its the shifting geological plate of conference realignment, e.g. moves in the big east effect everyone else.

The Big East has a very modern made for TV design to it, and I think its largely been a success. I can remember when Syracuse was leading the conference and many were calling for the Big East out of the BCS in 1998 with Miami, VT, and BC in the conference. Boy, we're they wrong, as the Big East built itself into a strong conference. Pitt and BC were no better than Rutgers and Temple in attendance 5-10 years ago....they turned it around because of the Big East.

The people come onto this board and think the Big East is going to fall apart totally dismiss the strong national brand of the Big East. Pitt and WVU are continuing to rebound. The new schools UL, UC, and USF have received a recruiting boost by joining the Big East before even a game is played. With ND staying involved, the conference continues to have viable post season opportunities.

I have several friends who went to Penn State and I ask them the question about playing in a Midwestern conference. They admit a nostalgia for yesteryear when ND and PSU were #1 and #2 in recruiting during the early 80's. However, they realize with scholarship reductions its a more competitive landscape nationally these days and there really isn't any turning back. They take pride in playing a strong Big Ten schedule and relate to Michigan and Purdue as rivals. They view those schools as institutional fits, and they think of the old Eastern Independent rivalries with smaller programs like Pitt, WVU, Rutgers as an evolutionary step backwards.

Penn State has a huge Big Ten style Football program and a huge Big Ten style statewide campus system. The cultural difference between Pennsylvania and the Great Lake states isn't that great, its all rustbelt college football land. Now Philly is distinctively east coast and its Penn State territory, but PSU is just as comfortable in a Midwestern conference. No different than Florida State being in the ACC instead of the SEC, really the cultural issue isn't a major difference.

I think the way the realignment is probably going to go is ND ending up in the ACC if economics ever forced them to join a conference, and maybe Syracuse or Rutgers into the Big Ten. The North East college football market is going to continue to be carved up by the Big Ten or the ACC. Its the path of least resistance. The Big Ten has all the bowl agreements Penn State could ever need in place. Starting a new conference with East Coast schools is too costly, and the bottom line is Penn State would be stuck with a bunch of second tier BCS football schools by joining the Big East or an incarnation of it.

-- Your probably right on the money with that post Kit Cat....but I still think the football schools are going to wait on making a move so they can try to talk to Joe Pa's successor....if he says no then that is probably it for good and we will move on to looking at ECU, Memphis, Temple etc


Jackson

Kit-Cat Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:Well by your logic then the Big Ten should go to 14 and take Pitt, Rutgers, and Connecticut into the fold. PSU in the Big Ten is similar to how some players end up on the Yankees. They might help the bottom line (although not anymore) but they don't fit in with the character of the team (never did). I don't mean to attack you, in fact I look forward to your posts, you're one of the few non-BE folks that come over here and something to say that I want to read.

I try to spend a good deal of time thinking the realignment issues through, especially with the Big East questions because its the shifting geological plate of conference realignment, e.g. moves in the big east effect everyone else.

The Big East has a very modern made for TV design to it, and I think its largely been a success. I can remember when Syracuse was leading the conference and many were calling for the Big East out of the BCS in 1998 with Miami, VT, and BC in the conference. Boy, we're they wrong, as the Big East built itself into a strong conference. Pitt and BC were no better than Rutgers and Temple in attendance 5-10 years ago....they turned it around because of the Big East.

The people come onto this board and think the Big East is going to fall apart totally dismiss the strong national brand of the Big East. Pitt and WVU are continuing to rebound. The new schools UL, UC, and USF have received a recruiting boost by joining the Big East before even a game is played. With ND staying involved, the conference continues to have viable post season opportunities.

I have several friends who went to Penn State and I ask them the question about playing in a Midwestern conference. They admit a nostalgia for yesteryear when ND and PSU were #1 and #2 in recruiting during the early 80's. However, they realize with scholarship reductions its a more competitive landscape nationally these days and there really isn't any turning back. They take pride in playing a strong Big Ten schedule and relate to Michigan and Purdue as rivals. They view those schools as institutional fits, and they think of the old Eastern Independent rivalries with smaller programs like Pitt, WVU, Rutgers as an evolutionary step backwards.

Penn State has a huge Big Ten style Football program and a huge Big Ten style statewide campus system. The cultural difference between Pennsylvania and the Great Lake states isn't that great, its all rustbelt college football land. Now Philly is distinctively east coast and its Penn State territory, but PSU is just as comfortable in a Midwestern conference. No different than Florida State being in the ACC instead of the SEC, really the cultural issue isn't a major difference.

I think the way the realignment is probably going to go is ND ending up in the ACC if economics ever forced them to join a conference, and maybe Syracuse or Rutgers into the Big Ten. The North East college football market is going to continue to be carved up by the Big Ten or the ACC. Its the path of least resistance. The Big Ten has all the bowl agreements Penn State could ever need in place. Starting a new conference with East Coast schools is too costly, and the bottom line is Penn State would be stuck with a bunch of second tier BCS football schools by joining the Big East or an incarnation of it.

That by far was one of the most insightful posts I've ever read on that topic. I guess Rutgers to the Big Ten is alot more likely than Penn State to the Big East. Although I'd really hope that the Big Ten goes to 14 so Pitt, Rutgers, and Connecticut go together. I guess then that the SEC would go to 14 by adding Louisville and West Virginia. The ACC would go to 14 by adding Syracuse and East Carolina. Cincinnati and South Florida would probably go to a 14 team CUSA that is now a BCS AQ Conference. The Pac 10 would nab Fresno, Utah, Boise, and BYU. The Big 12 would nab TCU and New Mexico. The remaining MWC and WAC teams would merge into a new MWC featuring NM State, CO State, San Diego State, Air Force, Louisiana Tech, Wyoming, UNLV, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State, Hawaii, Idaho of the current conferences plus North Texas and Arkansas State from the Sun Belt. The new MWC would likely remain on the outside looking in as the best schools would be absorbed into existing BCS conferences. Then there would need to be a whole new MAC-Sun Belt merger. Troy, LA-Lafeyette, LA-Monroe, MTSU, FL Atlantic, FL International would join with 8 teams from the MAC to form an all-new take on the east of the Mississippi concept. I'm guessing that the MAC however would remain the name. The out in the cold MAC members would likely drop to 1-AA or encourage some upward movement of their own to form a new conference.

Here's an idea I just had. Let's say in about 3 years when we know who JoePa's successor should be, PSU rejects us as do BC, UMD, and ND. The conference still is going to split and we really need to add at least two schools to shore things up. We decide to invite Memphis, Temple, and ECU but we want to go to 12 schools. Who does the 12th school end up being, assumed Buffalo's FB starts showing signs of life do we try to add another Northeastern school? Do we ask UMass about their interest in upgrading and joining with us? Do we go to Southern Miss or FAU or UCF? For me personally I'd go with Buffalo in that situation try and keep as much of the identity of the conference as possible. What do the rest of you suggest?

Florida is showing the games because-->probably everybody reading this board from the NE has a relative living in Florida.

This was why I wanted the Champs Bowl

The Liberty Bowl is nice but it would be great to have a bowl in Tampa/St Pete or Orlando.

brista21 Wrote:Here's an idea I just had. Let's say in about 3 years when we know who JoePa's successor should be, PSU rejects us as do BC, UMD, and ND. The conference still is going to split and we really need to add at least two schools to shore things up. We decide to invite Memphis, Temple, and ECU but we want to go to 12 schools. Who does the 12th school end up being, assumed Buffalo's FB starts showing signs of life do we try to add another Northeastern school? Do we ask UMass about their interest in upgrading and joining with us? Do we go to Southern Miss or FAU or UCF? For me personally I'd go with Buffalo in that situation try and keep as much of the identity of the conference as possible. What do the rest of you suggest?

brista21 Wrote:Here's an idea I just had. Let's say in about 3 years when we know who JoePa's successor should be, PSU rejects us as do BC, UMD, and ND. The conference still is going to split and we really need to add at least two schools to shore things up. We decide to invite Memphis, Temple, and ECU but we want to go to 12 schools. Who does the 12th school end up being, assumed Buffalo's FB starts showing signs of life do we try to add another Northeastern school? Do we ask UMass about their interest in upgrading and joining with us? Do we go to Southern Miss or FAU or UCF? For me personally I'd go with Buffalo in that situation try and keep as much of the identity of the conference as possible. What do the rest of you suggest?

I suggest the army-navy football deal and we move on with our lives.

brista21 Wrote:What do the rest of you suggest?

I suggest we enjoy this upcoming football season and maybe have some conversation about the teams that are IN the conference.

I think somebody's crystal ball is foggy.

TexanMark Wrote:Philly will have BE games this Fall. Check the list...more stations will be added.

<a href='http://www.bigeast.org/multimedia/bige-tv-affiliates.html' target='_blank'>TV Affliates So Far</a>

The web site also says "Stations may not carry all games every week - check local listings or the BIG EAST web site for schedule," so I think the access is not exclusive. I know PSU and the Big Ten are on in Philly an awful lot and fear that if it were not for the Nova affiliation that market would see even less BE action.

Even when Temple football was in the BE....Penn St and the Big 10 got more play in Philly...I agree with the thought about Nova and TV coverage in the area though....which was the EAC may need the Owls back

Jackson

brista21 Wrote:That by far was one of the most insightful posts I've ever read on that topic. I guess Rutgers to the Big Ten is alot more likely than Penn State to the Big East. Although I'd really hope that the Big Ten goes to 14 so Pitt, Rutgers, and Connecticut go together. I guess then that the SEC would go to 14 by adding Louisville and West Virginia. The ACC would go to 14 by adding Syracuse and East Carolina. Cincinnati and South Florida would probably go to a 14 team CUSA that is now a BCS AQ Conference. The Pac 10 would nab Fresno, Utah, Boise, and BYU. The Big 12 would nab TCU and New Mexico. The remaining MWC and WAC teams would merge into a new MWC featuring NM State, CO State, San Diego State, Air Force, Louisiana Tech, Wyoming, UNLV, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State, Hawaii, Idaho of the current conferences plus North Texas and Arkansas State from the Sun Belt. The new MWC would likely remain on the outside looking in as the best schools would be absorbed into existing BCS conferences. Then there would need to be a whole new MAC-Sun Belt merger. Troy, LA-Lafeyette, LA-Monroe, MTSU, FL Atlantic, FL International would join with 8 teams from the MAC to form an all-new take on the east of the Mississippi concept. I'm guessing that the MAC however would remain the name. The out in the cold MAC members would likely drop to 1-AA or encourage some upward movement of their own to form a new conference.

I'm glad you enjoyed my post.

The general rules of realignment in the future are going to be:

1.Conferences not moving beyond 12 members unless there is a big financial motivator like Notre Dame involved.

2.More conferences going to the 8/9 team model to protect strength of schedule and maximize revenue flow. Especially in leagues that can't support a neutral site championship game very well.

I could see CUSA and the MAC splitting into smaller conferences to be more competitive with the BCS. All you need is only one really good team in an eight team league and you have a strong conference because a rising tide floats all boats.

Add Memphis!!!!

Kit-Cat Wrote:

greekwolf Wrote:

Kit-Cat Wrote:The Big East has it made in basketball. What the Big East needs is a football school and Memphis doesn't have a strong history of success, always losing in-state to UTenn.

Actually, that's not true. If you want to use East Carolina's victory over Miami 6 years ago as an indication of their success as a football school, then I could just as easily use the Memphis victory over # 5 ranked Tennessee in 1996. In addition, Memphis is coming off consecutive 8+ win seasons in football and two straight bowl games, while East Carolina has been dismal in that same time period. With their new hire, I'm sure the Pirates will get things turned around soon, but the Tigers are already well on their way into building something special.

The recruiting services do not indicate much of anything special happening in Memphis. Nothing that would indicate BCS busting potential.

With the Liberty Bowl possibly leaving CUSA, things don't look good in Memphis right now.

who are you again? An Ohio fan? Yeah, don't worry about our recruiting or our BCS busting potential or about Memphis ever losing a chance to play in the LB.......worry about beating Kent State in front of 15K........

Again, your crystal balls have gotten even more foggy and made some of you lose touch with reality.

I have an idea. Why don't all NBE teams just leave the Big East now. That way, we won't have to worry about who is going to jump ship for the Big Ten or the ACC, etc. Once all NBE teams leave the Big East, the conference can continue by embracing all current CUSA teams who will claim access to the BCS monies and the BE bowl tie-ins. This way, Memphis still has the Liberty Bowl as a new member of the Big East along with Southern Mississippi, Tulane, Alabama-Birmingham, East Carolina, Marshall, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, and UTEP.

We current and quite unhappy NBE schools can simply leave the NBE and become wandering independents because we know that none of us are content. We all want to be in the Big Ten or the ACC. We hate the NBE so why stay in it?

To reiterate, why waste our time in a conference that we all know is going to implode within five years?

Get my satirical drift?


:bang:

bearcatfan Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:What do the rest of you suggest?

I suggest we enjoy this upcoming football season and maybe have some conversation about the teams that are IN the conference.

Once again a Bearcat Fan with the soothing voice of reason...I'm with you Bearcat...let's play AS WE ARE for a few years and see what unfolds.....let's let the Big East be the Big East as we know it now for several seasons and see what we look like then. After we unfold as a conference we can re-assess and THEN make suggestions on this team moving on to that conference, or booting this team out in favor of that team etc.

Go Big East
Go Bearcats!!!!!

From a Washington fan on another (non-NCAAbbs) college football forum:

Quote:Ivan Maisel is now pimping Williams as a Heisman candidate (wtf was the Big East thinking leaving out Memphis...)

Wilkie01 Wrote:Thanks for your comments. I hope Memphis is soon in the Big East.

As a Mountaineer and Tiger fan, I can only hope Memphis gets in the BE someday as well.

Get further in the backyard of the SEC and weaken their powerbase. Watch Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas and others squirm.