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Jackson1011 Offline
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Smizik: Big East needs to downsize
Wednesday, January 05, 2005

By Bob Smizik, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The best college basketball league in Division I is believed to be the Atlantic Coast Conference, with Wake Forest, North Carolina and Duke ranked in the top five this week. Many will argue that it's the Big East, whose membership includes Syracuse and Connecticut, the two most recent national champions, both of which are in this week's top 10.

Still others might suggest the best league is the Big Ten, home of No. 1 Illinois and two other top 20 teams, or the Big 12, with three teams in the top 15. In years past, the Southeastern Conference would have received consideration.

Next season, however, in the eyes of many this argument will cease to exist. Next season, there's a belief, particularly in these parts, that the Big East will be the best conference.

Not only will it have its usual array of top teams in Connecticut, Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and newly ascended West Virginia, but the Big East will be adding Louisville, Cincinnati and Marquette, all traditional powers.

It would be easy to argue the Big East would have the best collection of teams in the country.

But it won't be the best conference.

At 16 teams, it will be too big.

The best conference isn't necessarily the one with the best teams. Even when the ACC didn't have the best teams -- like in 1985 when the Big East had three teams in the Final Four -- it was the best conference. It was so because it had tradition and rivalries and fabulous home-and-home competition. That's what makes a great conference.

The quality of teams can change every year, but traditions and intense rivalries do not.

It won't help the Big East, which also takes in South Florida and DePaul while losing Boston College next season, that it has decided go with a one-division format. In Pitt's case, for example, that means it will play 10 teams once, three teams twice and two teams not at all. Home-and-home competition, the heart of great rivalries and great conferences, would be at a minimum.

It might be three years before some conference members play in Pittsburgh.

There is a way around this. There is a way to establish scalding-hot rivalries, to birth grand traditions and to form the best league in the country.

In order to do so, multiple cold and heartless acts would be required. But, hey, this is college athletics. Remember, it was the Big East, with barely a hint of guilt, that put the Temple football program on the street for next season.

As constituted next year, the Big East will have nine football-playing schools in its 16-team membership. Almost all of those schools are large public institutions. The schools that don't play football are small, private and Catholic.

It's never a good idea to have such diverse members under the same umbrella. It's always best for universities within the same conference to have similar goals and objectives. With such divergent interests, massive divorce is the way to go. The football-playing schools need to separate from the other members and form a league of their own, where schools share common interests and goals.

It won't hurt that this league would be a basketball powerhouse. The members would be: Connecticut, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers and South Florida. What a league that would be. If it were together this season, every member except South Florida and Rutgers would have an excellent chance of qualifying for the NCAA tournament.

The Big East teams left out of this league would be DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova. These schools have many things in common, most notably they've all seen better days as basketball powers. They all are going downhill and most don't figure to stop.

Let them form a league of their own where one or two teams would make the tournament every year. They probably wouldn't get that many invitations if they remained with the other nine schools.

A couple of problems.

One is the uneven numbers. Nine is not good. As a means of getting down to eight, tell Notre Dame if it wants to stay, it must join their football league. If not, ship the Irish to the other league. If the Irish stay, so much the better. The weak football league would be stronger and a nine-team basketball league is workable.

An even larger problem is name. The Big East is a well-known brand and the have-nots, most of whom helped form the conference, would not easily let it go. That's fine. Let them have it. There are enough marketing geniuses around to come up with a catchy, clever name that would quickly become popular for the new league.

College athletics is so much about positions. That's why there have been so many league changes in recent years. The football-playing schools of the Big East need to position themselves to reap the benefits of a great basketball league. The only way to do that is to say goodbye to the schools that don't play football.
01-05-2005 08:08 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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Post: #2
 
Makes sense to me.
01-05-2005 08:26 AM
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mlb Offline
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The writer left out the fact that if the football schools break away and don't keep the Big East name they lose all the NCAA money for the tournament runs of the past (including Syracuse and UConn's championships). If they can work out a deal to still split that NCAA money it would be better.
01-05-2005 09:10 AM
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3601 Offline
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mlbUC Wrote:The writer left out the fact that if the football schools break away and don't keep the Big East name they lose all the NCAA money for the tournament runs of the past (including Syracuse and UConn's championships). If they can work out a deal to still split that NCAA money it would be better.
I don't understand. How do they lose money from the past?
01-05-2005 09:44 AM
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mlb Offline
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3601 Wrote:I don't understand. How do they lose money from the past?
The NCAA gives each conference a "unit" for every game a team in their conference plays over a 6 year period in the NCAA tourney. For example, all the units that UC, Louisville, Marquette, and DePaul have earned for the conference in recent years will go to C-USA next year, not the teams nor the Big East. Basically, C-USA will get to split the money earned by these teams without them playing there. Whatever UC earns this year in the NCAA tourney will go to C-USA for the next 5 years after this, even though UC will not be playing there.
01-05-2005 09:49 AM
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3601 Offline
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mlbUC Wrote:
3601 Wrote:I don't understand.  How do they lose money from the past?
The NCAA gives each conference a "unit" for every game a team in their conference plays over a 6 year period in the NCAA tourney. For example, all the units that UC, Louisville, Marquette, and DePaul have earned for the conference in recent years will go to C-USA next year, not the teams nor the Big East. Basically, C-USA will get to split the money earned by these teams without them playing there. Whatever UC earns this year in the NCAA tourney will go to C-USA for the next 5 years after this, even though UC will not be playing there.
I didn't know that. I always thought it was based on that single year.
01-05-2005 01:45 PM
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mlb Offline
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I'll look it up, but I am quite sure it is 6 years.
01-05-2005 02:09 PM
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WacoBearcat Away
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Post: #8
 
The writer left out the fact that if the football schools break away and don't keep the Big East name they lose all the NCAA money for the tournament runs of the past (including Syracuse and UConn's championships). If they can work out a deal to still split that NCAA money it would be better. (Quote from MlbUC).

Isn't this why 2010 is the negotiated year for the break-up. It will give the basketball-only schools to get back on their feet.
01-05-2005 02:15 PM
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mlb Offline
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Here is a google cache of an article from Colorado State... <a href='http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:_tLY_Xkjfb0J:www.coloradoan.com/news/stories/20030326/sports/1255868.html+NCAA+tournament+payout+units&hl=en&client=firefox-a' target='_blank'>Google cache</a>

It specifically mentions the 6 year payout system.

<a href='http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marq/apr03/130617.asp' target='_blank'>Another article</a>, this one talking about Marquette going to the final 4 two years ago.

<a href='http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/2001/Mar/13/313sports12.html' target='_blank'>Hawaii newspaper</a> talking about the 6 year system...
01-05-2005 02:41 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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WacoBearcat Wrote:The writer left out the fact that if the football schools break away and don't keep the Big East name they lose all the NCAA money for the tournament runs of the past (including Syracuse and UConn's championships). If they can work out a deal to still split that NCAA money it would be better. (Quote from MlbUC).

Isn't this why 2010 is the negotiated year for the break-up. It will give the basketball-only schools to get back on their feet.
Yes
01-05-2005 11:51 PM
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Cat's_Claw Offline
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Hopefully a deal is negotiated that would allow one side to keep the Big East name but for all to split the money. Personally I think it would be better for the All-Sports teams to keep the Big East name and the basketball schools to come up with their own mainly because it would be better for the basketball schools to establish a new identity and the Big East name has football roots. But if they want to keep the Big East name it would allow the All-Sports schools to come up with a more geographically feasible name and start their own history and tradition.
01-06-2005 09:51 PM
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Jackson1011 Offline
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Quote:Hopefully a deal is negotiated that would allow one side to keep the Big East name but for all to split the money. Personally I think it would be better for the All-Sports teams to keep the Big East name and the basketball schools to come up with their own mainly because it would be better for the basketball schools to establish a new identity and the Big East name has football roots. But if they want to keep the Big East name it would allow the All-Sports schools to come up with a more geographically feasible name and start their own history and tradition.


-- I'm sure one of the reasons for the 5 year grace period was to figure out a way to split the NCAA units...if for some reason the units cannot be divided we are going to have to leave them behind...the chances of having a greater finanical loss exist if one or more schools leave because of the league's instability....the loss of just one more out of Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville or UConn frankly might be the death blow....its time to start building a more secure future for every BE football school and they only way to do that is to start in all sports league....

--- I'm sure the BE name and MSG gardern are going to be kept by the bball onlys...in fact some of the fans of the bball onlys on anther board have said that the deal to keep the BE name etc for the bball onlys has already been negotatied ( no idea if that's true or not).... I think a lot of BE football fans are hoping that the Big Apple Bowl will also be the site for the EAC hoops tourney

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01-07-2005 08:29 AM
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David Krysakowski Offline
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Post: #13
 
Anybody want to see this?

Big East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia

Atlantic 10: Fordham, George Washington, La Salle, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Richmond, Saint Joseph's, Temple

Liberty League: Charlotte, Duquesne, Georgetown, Providence, Saint Bonaventure, Saint John's, Seton Hall, Villanova

Pionner League: Butler, Dayton, De Paul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Saint Louis, Valparaiso, Xavier
01-09-2005 02:42 PM
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David Krysakowski Offline
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Anybody want to see this?

Big East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia

Atlantic 10: Fordham, George Washington, La Salle, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Richmond, Saint Joseph's, Temple

Liberty League: Charlotte, Duquesne, Georgetown, Providence, Saint Bonaventure, Saint John's, Seton Hall, Villanova

Pioneer League: Butler, Dayton, De Paul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Saint Louis, Valparaiso, Xavier
01-09-2005 02:44 PM
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mlb Offline
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The Pioneer league would be the top of the non-Big 6 conferences in that scenario, IMO. Dayton, DePaul, Xavier, Notre Dame, and Marquette is a good top 5 team lineup, and Butler has been really good over the past few years. We all know how Valpo seems to be a team that makes noise in the NCAA tourney. St. Louis hasn't done much lately, but they still manage to keep most of their games competitive.

That being said, I don't think there is a chance in hell of that happening :)
01-09-2005 04:09 PM
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nflsucks Offline
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I'd rather see...

EAC
Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia...

Big East
DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Temple, Villanova... and maybe... I dunno, Xavier or St. Joe or UMass, whoever. I would rather see two major players come out of the split than one major player and three other slightly beefed up mid-majors by spreading the basketball only schools over multiple leagues (which would never happen anyways).
01-09-2005 04:18 PM
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EAC
Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia...

This would be an outstanding all-sports league.
01-09-2005 04:30 PM
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mlb Offline
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Quote:Big East
DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Temple, Villanova... and maybe... I dunno, Xavier or St. Joe or UMass, whoever. I would rather see two major players come out of the split than one major player and three other slightly beefed up mid-majors by spreading the basketball only schools over multiple leagues (which would never happen anyways).

From what I have heard Xavier and Dayton are a package deal. They have a pretty long history of playing in the same conference and both schools want to stay in the same conference (plus, being only 50 miles apart, they are great travel partners).
01-09-2005 04:33 PM
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Jackson1011 Offline
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Quote:Big East
DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Temple, Villanova... and maybe... I dunno, Xavier or St. Joe or UMass, whoever. I would rather see two major players come out of the split than one major player and three other slightly beefed up mid-majors by spreading the basketball only schools over multiple leagues (which would never happen anyways).


-- From what I read a few days ago...Temple is really working hard to get into the MAC....I bet that deal gets down before March

-- Xavier will be a slam dunk to join the BE....as for #10....I could see St Joe, Umass, St Louis, Rhode Island, George Washington...if I were betting I would say Xavier and St Joe so the league would be made up of all Catholic schools


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01-09-2005 05:19 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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WacoBearcat Wrote:EAC
Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia...

This would be an outstanding all-sports league.
And if PSU, Memphis, and ECU or Marshall would join, what a super conference.
01-09-2005 09:43 PM
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