Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Religion.
Author Message
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #41
RE: Religion.
I'm an atheist. Job ain't got nothing on me either...

I've been through more sh!t than anyone I've ever met. Three times now I've been declared dead, and I didn't see anything - no light, no tunnel, nothing. I survived Vietnam, and 2 ex-wives. I've passed out while skydiving, in the desert, many times while working, 3 times while driving, 4 times free hand climbing, and once while working on the New River Gorge Bridge. I survived 5 falls of over 100 feet - one was 443 feet. Every time I've passed out is because of a heart defect I was lucky to live long enough to get diagnosed. My heart likes to take a vacation every few months, but it's only when my brain is deprived of blood and oxygen for more than 7 seconds that I pass out...

I wear a pacemaker now, have a liver transplant, have no memory to speak of, a wife with secondary progressive MS, live in constant pain, and need medication just to be able to stand, see, walk, talk, etc. due to several serious head injuries...

IMO the only salvation you'll ever find is within yourself. If you don't find it there, you'll never find it...
05-10-2012 08:44 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ctkatz Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 524
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 20
I Root For: colorado avs
Location:
Post: #42
RE: Religion.
(03-12-2012 06:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I'm going to start this, and I may regret it. What is your stance on it? Topics include:

-Religion as a force for good or bad
-... in politics
-... in world affairs
-... in the lives of everyday people, and how far it should govern them.
-... in response to the receding trends of the newer generations, i.e. Less and less young people associate with any faith and more older generations are claiming lack of any faith

Try to keep it civilized.

in order:
bad
bad
bad
good

there is a quote by Steven Weinberg that i like that pretty much describes my philosophy:
Quote:Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

that's how I feel about the situation. i know that there are good people who follow a religion, but i tend to believe those are good people anyway. i think that if you can follow a few common sense rules, like don't steal from each other, don't kill each other, leave people alone who don't want to be bothered, religion is unnecessary. the reason i believe religion is so pervasive is because a high percentage of people are scared of what happens to people when they leave this mortal coil. they need some reassurance that there is something else after this life.

speaking for myself, i don't know what happens after. i also know that no one else knows for 100% certainty and anyone who proclaims their knowledge i dismiss as ignorant and a charlatan. since i have no idea what happens after and i don't have any control of what happens after, i choose not to concern myself about it.

my beef isn't with religion. i don't need it. some people do. i'm fine with that. my issue is with the people who use their religion as a sledgehammer to affect other people's lives or use religion as a justification for their actions. ESPECIALLY politicians. those people can go to hell. i also take issue with people who think atheists are immoral or untrustworthy because they have no religion. i justify my actions to the only people who matter- myself, my superiors, and the people i interact with at the time. i don't need to justify anything to some diety(ies) who may or may not exist especially when they allow evil men to prosper, good people to suffer, and disasters to kill innocent unaware people.
05-16-2012 07:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnnylightnin Offline
Huh?
*

Posts: 1,929
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation: 42
I Root For: Louisiana Tech
Location: Shreveport, LA
Post: #43
RE: Religion.
(05-10-2012 08:44 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  IMO the only salvation you'll ever find is within yourself. If you don't find it there, you'll never find it...

What can you save yourself from? As you illustrated, "ourselves" can be defective and faulty. If my salvation is up to me, I'm doomed.

Christianity is not about what produces good people or bad people. It's not some utilitarian method for improving behavior.
05-17-2012 08:24 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #44
RE: Religion.
What produces good or bad people are good or bad parents, johnny. That's been the case throughout history. Religion doesn't produce those. I know many religious people who suck as parents...

Your basic personality is set in stone by the time you're 5 years old. After that, it takes a traumatic event to make any significant change to your personality. My wife has noticed changes in my personality after each traumatic brain injury. Of course, those kinds of traumas are rarely change things for the better. But the grounding your parents give you remains the foundation of your perceptions and actions. That part of me never changed, and that's where your values come from...

But as for salvation, if you're going to quit smoking, you have to find the will power within yourself. Same for quitting any other vice. People talk about a higher power. But the power they're looking for is within themselves. They just need to find it. Some need others to show it to them. But it's there, just the same...
05-17-2012 09:24 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnnylightnin Offline
Huh?
*

Posts: 1,929
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation: 42
I Root For: Louisiana Tech
Location: Shreveport, LA
Post: #45
RE: Religion.
(05-17-2012 09:24 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  What produces good or bad people are good or bad parents, johnny. That's been the case throughout history. Religion doesn't produce those. I know many religious people who suck as parents...

Your basic personality is set in stone by the time you're 5 years old. After that, it takes a traumatic event to make any significant change to your personality. My wife has noticed changes in my personality after each traumatic brain injury. Of course, those kinds of traumas are rarely change things for the better. But the grounding your parents give you remains the foundation of your perceptions and actions. That part of me never changed, and that's where your values come from...

But as for salvation, if you're going to quit smoking, you have to find the will power within yourself. Same for quitting any other vice. People talk about a higher power. But the power they're looking for is within themselves. They just need to find it. Some need others to show it to them. But it's there, just the same...


Sorry, but that doesn't sound like salvation to me. My grandpa smoked and lived to be 82. Had he quit, maybe he makes it to 85...great. If our goal is merely improving our habits, we don't really need salvation.
05-17-2012 10:25 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #46
RE: Religion.
I was merely using vice as an example. You missed the point...

But it's not surprising. On subjects like religion and politics, rational arguments from either side rarely sway the other. We shall have to agree to disagree...

IMO God was created by MAN - in his image - and the leaders of the various churches have forever since used that creation in an attempt to control the thoughts and lives of all other men...
05-17-2012 08:20 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #47
RE: Religion.
Jesus still loves you all. He is waiting for you to accept his grace, forgiveness and love. We were all given free-will and the ability to chose. Chose wisely.
06-09-2012 10:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #48
RE: Religion.
Jesus is dead, and his ideas have been coopted...
06-09-2012 01:18 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnnylightnin Offline
Huh?
*

Posts: 1,929
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation: 42
I Root For: Louisiana Tech
Location: Shreveport, LA
Post: #49
Religion.
(06-09-2012 01:18 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Jesus is dead, and his ideas have been coopted...

500 eye witnesses disagree. We'll all know sooner or later.
06-10-2012 01:58 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #50
RE: Religion.
(06-09-2012 01:18 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Jesus is dead, and his ideas have been coopted...

I will never praying for Bit my friend. God bless you and go with Jesus.
06-10-2012 02:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #51
RE: Religion.
IMO whenever you accept something on faith you've to decided to believe whatever someone tells you, no matter how ridiculous it may be, without any supporting proof...
06-10-2012 02:43 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #52
RE: Religion.
Bit, its spiritual conversion that happens before faith. You have not experienced it yet. If you had, you would not be making these statements. I hope you learn the difference, my friend. If you do, then you will know that the Trinity is real.
06-10-2012 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #53
RE: Religion.
Wilkie, I've been dead 3 times - and each time I was resurrected. I saw nothing...
06-11-2012 06:49 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BadWillHunting Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 991
Joined: Jan 2007
Reputation: 35
I Root For: Boise State
Location: SLC
Post: #54
RE: Religion.
(06-10-2012 02:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  IMO whenever you accept something on faith you've to decided to believe whatever someone tells you, no matter how ridiculous it may be, without any supporting proof...

Exactly... just like the light wave/particle behavior theory. We only know that sometimes it acts like one and sometimes acts like the other, so we just "invent" a new category of 'something' that we don't understand and believe in it on faith, because of our inability to fully-explain it. And/Or is electron-hopping what electricity is defined-by... or is it a wave-based phenomenon, or particle, or valence-shift at the atomic-level....? Sure would be nice to someday ever fully understand via science; since these debates end up raising as many questions as they resolve.

Science is no better in explaining a great many things than religion is. I note that those who believe science is capable of explaining 'everything' in life & nature have turned science, an imperfect process, into its own pseudo-religion.

I try not to throw rocks at either side, but it does seem that science & religion have some odd parallels in this type of critical view.
06-11-2012 01:13 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #55
RE: Religion.
In case you were unaware, the scientific method is setup to disprove any premise. It is only accepted as a postulate when it cannot be disproven. But nothing is fact until its mathematical proof is confirmed, and even then a new mathematic discovery could render it all irrelevant...

The religious method is to accept things without proof as fact, and I need a logical reason to accept that. Faith isn't logical IMO...
06-11-2012 02:01 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BadWillHunting Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 991
Joined: Jan 2007
Reputation: 35
I Root For: Boise State
Location: SLC
Post: #56
RE: Religion.
(06-11-2012 02:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In case you were unaware, the scientific method is setup to disprove any premise. It is only accepted as a postulate when it cannot be disproven. But nothing is fact until its mathematical proof is confirmed, and even then a new mathematic discovery could render it all irrelevant...

The religious method is to accept things without proof as fact, and I need a logical reason to accept that. Faith isn't logical IMO...

Nevertheless, science makes a huge leap of faith in accepting current particle-waveform behavior theory... since it's wholly incapable of proving either view, or discovering WHY it is that way. They still accept the un-provable as truth, and that is "Faith."
06-11-2012 08:38 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ClairtonPanther Offline
people need to wake up
*

Posts: 25,056
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 777
I Root For: Pitt/Navy
Location: Portland, Oregon

Donators
Post: #57
RE: Religion.
(06-11-2012 08:38 PM)BadWillHunting Wrote:  
(06-11-2012 02:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In case you were unaware, the scientific method is setup to disprove any premise. It is only accepted as a postulate when it cannot be disproven. But nothing is fact until its mathematical proof is confirmed, and even then a new mathematic discovery could render it all irrelevant...

The religious method is to accept things without proof as fact, and I need a logical reason to accept that. Faith isn't logical IMO...

Nevertheless, science makes a huge leap of faith in accepting current particle-waveform behavior theory... since it's wholly incapable of proving either view, or discovering WHY it is that way. They still accept the un-provable as truth, and that is "Faith."

Can agree with this.

Theory = faith if you asked me. Great point
06-11-2012 09:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #58
RE: Religion.
My wife found out at Baptist East Hospital after being admit for sevre pain in her head that she had a brain aneurysm in an near inoperable area near the center of her brain. The operation could paralizer or even kill her. The only doctors, who could do the operation were at Vanderbilt or the Mayo Clinic. We choose Vandy. We prayed and many churches and friends prayed for my wife. We had the laying of hands on her head and the praying just like the Bible says will heal. When got to Vandy, They checked and found the brain aneurysm was almost gone three weeks later. That was over 20-years ago and my wife is still healed. So I know about faith and prayer. And I know that there is a God and does answer prayers. So I tell you that me and family will dwell in the house of God forever. Science did not heal my wife God did. And I am bearing witness to this miracle and the existance of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
06-11-2012 10:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lush Offline
go to hell and get a job
*

Posts: 16,204
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 395
I Root For: the user
Location: sovereign ludditia
Post: #59
RE: Religion.
(06-11-2012 10:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  My wife found out at Baptist East Hospital after being admit for sevre pain in her head that she had a brain aneurysm in an near inoperable area near the center of her brain. The operation could paralizer or even kill her. The only doctors, who could do the operation were at Vanderbilt or the Mayo Clinic. We choose Vandy. We prayed and many churches and friends prayed for my wife. We had the laying of hands on her head and the praying just like the Bible says will heal. When got to Vandy, They checked and found the brain aneurysm was almost gone three weeks later. That was over 20-years ago and my wife is still healed. So I know about faith and prayer. And I know that there is a God and does answer prayers. So I tell you that me and family will dwell in the house of God forever. Science did not heal my wife God did. And I am bearing witness to this miracle and the existance of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

glad your wife made it through wilkie! 04-cheers now i don't intend to disparage your situation and am glad you went to a doctor, but if prayer is that powerful, what's your reason for going to see a doctor? i lost my faith the minute i decided my daily prayers before bedtime became a chore. is it possible your wife was simply misdiagnosed?
06-14-2012 09:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #60
RE: Religion.
(06-14-2012 09:03 AM)Lush Wrote:  
(06-11-2012 10:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  My wife found out at Baptist East Hospital after being admit for sevre pain in her head that she had a brain aneurysm in an near inoperable area near the center of her brain. The operation could paralizer or even kill her. The only doctors, who could do the operation were at Vanderbilt or the Mayo Clinic. We choose Vandy. We prayed and many churches and friends prayed for my wife. We had the laying of hands on her head and the praying just like the Bible says will heal. When got to Vandy, They checked and found the brain aneurysm was almost gone three weeks later. That was over 20-years ago and my wife is still healed. So I know about faith and prayer. And I know that there is a God and does answer prayers. So I tell you that me and family will dwell in the house of God forever. Science did not heal my wife God did. And I am bearing witness to this miracle and the existance of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

glad your wife made it through wilkie! 04-cheers now i don't intend to disparage your situation and am glad you went to a doctor, but if prayer is that powerful, what's your reason for going to see a doctor? i lost my faith the minute i decided my daily prayers before bedtime became a chore. is it possible your wife was simply misdiagnosed?

No, we saw all the tests, xrays, cat scans etc.
06-14-2012 10:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.