(05-14-2012 03:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  Swofford brokered a deal with Notre Dame to join the ACC in the same time frame that the expansion talks were in process with Miami, Syracuse and Boston College. The Irish were to join the ACC with a "Big East" type deal (no football) for 7 years that would then automatically convert in to a full membership (all sports). The plan was presented to the ACC presidents and quickly shot down. The presidents said, full membership or no membership. The Irish were ready to join the ACC on the agreed to terms that had been worked out with Swofford, but politely declined the full membership demands of the ACC presidents.

I for one could totally live with that. 7 years may seem like a long time, but when you consider that VT & Miami have already been ACC members that long, it's really not too long to wait - as long as you get it in writing that they are definitely "all in" at the end of the 7 years! (and I would back it up with a HUGE buy-out amount, like $35 million or more).

XLance, is there anything on the internet where we can read more about this?

(05-14-2012 04:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 03:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  Swofford brokered a deal with Notre Dame to join the ACC in the same time frame that the expansion talks were in process with Miami, Syracuse and Boston College. The Irish were to join the ACC with a "Big East" type deal (no football) for 7 years that would then automatically convert in to a full membership (all sports). The plan was presented to the ACC presidents and quickly shot down. The presidents said, full membership or no membership. The Irish were ready to join the ACC on the agreed to terms that had been worked out with Swofford, but politely declined the full membership demands of the ACC presidents.

I for one could totally live with that. 7 years may seem like a long time, but when you consider that VT & Miami have already been ACC members that long, it's really not too long to wait - as long as you get it in writing that they are definitely "all in" at the end of the 7 years! (and I would back it up with a HUGE buy-out amount, like $35 million or more).

XLance, is there anything on the internet where we can read more about this?

I agree, if there was at least a locked in period of ND all sports (football included) following the 7-year period, the decision was short-sighted! Any support for this claim would be appreciated.

One article from 2002

OOps 2003

another article from a Hokie board

Riddle me this: I've read in several places that the ACC "hurts" football, or doesn't do enough for football. Doesn't that fall to the member institutions to do that job on the field? If FSU could solve their Wake Problem, would we be talking about this? Less hookers and blow would probably help Miami. I'm partially kidding but as Darth Vader said, "just win, baby!"

(05-14-2012 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  One article from 2002

OOps 2003

Thanks, XLance. The Yahoo link in your second post does not work, but as the link was offered at the then present time, that lends credibility. As a Big East follower, I never heard this rumor.

Thanks, again.

(05-14-2012 09:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  another article from a Hokie board

Thanks! Using that info, I was able to find this on NBC Sports:

"ACC: N.D. invitation not imminent - Conference officials say Irish football would have to join"

So it IS true... Notre Dame would have been joining as a FULL member of the ACC THIS YEAR had the 9 agreed to this deal (JUST IN TIME for this latest contract renegotiation)

This may go down as the most EPIC FAIL of ALL TIME in college sports management.

(05-14-2012 10:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 09:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  another article from a Hokie board

Thanks! Using that info, I was able to find this on NBC Sports:

"ACC: N.D. invitation not imminent - Conference officials say Irish football would have to join"

So it IS true... Notre Dame would have been joining as a FULL member of the ACC THIS YEAR had the 9 agreed to this deal (JUST IN TIME for this latest contract renegotiation)

This may go down as the most EPIC FAIL of ALL TIME in college sports management.

Let me ask you this.

Would you as a Hokie fan have been happy if Notre Dame took your Peach Bowl bids in '06 and '09 in exchange for possibly joining in football in 2012?

Remember now, the links provided by XLance stated ND would be "partial football members", and he stated it was the same deal ND had with the Big East, so ND would have had access to any ACC Bowl outside the BCS autobid. Also remember that ND has stole a bowl bid from VT before. Remember Mike Vick's last hurrah as a Hokie being in the Gator Bowl instead of the Fiesta Bowl?

No way in hell as a Clemson fan I would have allowed Notre Dame to leech off of us in every other sport, played the ACC teams they wanted to play in football (likely Duke, Wake, UNC, and UVA) while stealing our bowls just so they might would join us in 2012. That would have been a totally stupid move at the time, and would have been a totally stupid move now. Outside of football Notre Dame brings absolutely no value whatsoever to the ACC.

I hate ND but to say that they bring no value besides football to the ACC is nonsense. They have an overall excellent athletic program, are well regarded academically, and bring a great deal of prestige to the table. All of this is in addition to their football program.

I am not a fan of how they have been able to pilfer bowl bids from Big East teams in the past, however, you have to also keep in mind that in that relationship the Big East wouldn't have the bowl lineup they currently do if it were not for ND. The chance to get ND is worth something to the bowls.

With the current squawking coming from FSU, if I were ND I would be even more convinced that independence is the best course of action for me. I wouldn't want to touch any conference with a 10 foot pole right now if I didn't have to and they still believe they don't have to.

(05-14-2012 10:26 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  I hate ND but to say that they bring no value besides football to the ACC is nonsense. They have an overall excellent athletic program, are well regarded academically, and bring a great deal of prestige to the table. All of this is in addition to their football program.

They would have had a middle of the pack at best basketball program over the period we are talking about. Outside of football (which they wouldn't have been a member of the ACC) and basketball nothing else matters.

Quote:I am not a fan of how they have been able to pilfer bowl bids from Big East teams in the past, however, you have to also keep in mind that in that relationship the Big East wouldn't have the bowl lineup they currently do if it were not for ND.

Maybe it was a good deal for the Big East, but the ACC didn't have that problem, despite the fact that half the conference only pays lip service at best towards football.

Quote:The chance to get ND is worth something to the bowls.

And it would have come at the cost of the programs that were in the ACC and contributing towards the ACC payout in football.

I doubt it would have hurt Clemson because the good bowls we had a tie-in with during that time love Clemson. However it could have hurt a number of our programs that don't have a huge traveling fanbase, especially Wake, and that would be an injustice because no FBS program faces the uphill climb that Wake faces every year. I'd rather have a strong Wake program over the same time period than the chance that ND would have fulfilled their obligations and joined the ACC in 2012.

Yes, allowing ND to have special treatment in hopes that they join the conference down the road is a bad idea. The ACC made the right call on that. While it worked out alright for the Big East, I think it was a bush league move and I never supported it. Similarly, I would never support the ACC doing that in the future.

The deal the Big East made w/ ND was not good, but they had NO good options. I guess I was thinking if ND wanted to play all sports but football that would be ok w/ me AS LONG AS they don't take the good ACC bowls (Orange, Chik-Fil-A, Champs Sports). If there was a deal to allow ND to play in the Belk Bowl that would be OK w/ me, though I would also guard the Music City since it's one of only 2 bowls against the SEC. I recognize that ND won't give up independence "cold turkey" and I'd be willing to "wean" them on Olympic sports... but I agree with CatDaddy & ndlutz that giving up bowls would be foolish.

I'm not even for allowing them to play all sports but football in the ACC. I don't think they deserve special treatment. If they want to join then the door is open for them. If they don't, they don't. Nobody else gets special treatment, why should the Irish?

(05-15-2012 09:23 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  I'm not even for allowing them to play all sports but football in the ACC. I don't think they deserve special treatment. If they want to join then the door is open for them. If they don't, they don't. Nobody else gets special treatment, why should the Irish?

See, I don't care who gets special treatment and who doesn't. Notre Dame, Ohio St, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma and Southern Cal ALWAYS get special treatment - that's just life.

To me, the question is what's best for me -- the fact that you benefit more than I do is irrelevant. If I can get an extra $1 million but you have to get $1.5 million for the deal to work, I'm still taking the money. I won't let jealousy keep me poor.

(05-14-2012 10:19 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 10:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 09:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  another article from a Hokie board

Thanks! Using that info, I was able to find this on NBC Sports:

"ACC: N.D. invitation not imminent - Conference officials say Irish football would have to join"

So it IS true... Notre Dame would have been joining as a FULL member of the ACC THIS YEAR had the 9 agreed to this deal (JUST IN TIME for this latest contract renegotiation)

This may go down as the most EPIC FAIL of ALL TIME in college sports management.

Let me ask you this.

Would you as a Hokie fan have been happy if Notre Dame took your Peach Bowl bids in '06 and '09 in exchange for possibly joining in football in 2012?

Remember now, the links provided by XLance stated ND would be "partial football members", and he stated it was the same deal ND had with the Big East, so ND would have had access to any ACC Bowl outside the BCS autobid. Also remember that ND has stole a bowl bid from VT before. Remember Mike Vick's last hurrah as a Hokie being in the Gator Bowl instead of the Fiesta Bowl?

No way in hell as a Clemson fan I would have allowed Notre Dame to leech off of us in every other sport, played the ACC teams they wanted to play in football (likely Duke, Wake, UNC, and UVA) while stealing our bowls just so they might would join us in 2012. That would have been a totally stupid move at the time, and would have been a totally stupid move now. Outside of football Notre Dame brings absolutely no value whatsoever to the ACC.

I don't have an issue with the transition period. GT came in on a transition period. I think it took them 6 years(?) to play a full football schedule. I do have 2 issues with the terms of that agreement as they are being interpreted.

1. The open ended date for full football membership. ND knew what their contractual commitments were. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what the date would be.

2. ND access to football benefits without being a full football member. You don't get bowls or football distributions (except for the games you play in) until you are a full member.

(05-16-2012 08:22 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't have an issue with the transition period. GT came in on a transition period. I think it took them 6 years(?) to play a full football schedule. I do have 2 issues with the terms of that agreement as they are being interpreted.

1. The open ended date for full football membership. ND knew what their contractual commitments were. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what the date would be.

2. ND access to football benefits without being a full football member. You don't get bowls or football distributions (except for the games you play in) until you are a full member.

See, I can totally agree with those 2 points (good job, Wolfman)