http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-alignment

FSU President outlines four factors for leaving and seven for staying.

1. The ACC is more basketball than it is football, and many of our alumni view us as more football oriented than the ACC


3. The Big 12 has some big football schools that match up with FSU

4. The Big 12 contract (which actually isn't signed yet) is rumored to be $2.9M more per year than the ACC contract. We need this money to be competitive.


But, in contrast:


1. The information presented about the ACC contract that initiated the blogosphere discussion was not correct. The ACC is an equal share conference and this applies to football and to basketball -- there is no preferential treatment of any university with the exception of 3rd tier rights for women's basketball and Olympic sports. FSU is advantaged by that aspect of the contract over the majority of other ACC schools.

2. Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin - I watched the Big 12 disintegration with interest). So, when fans realize that Texas would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it would be interesting to see the fan reaction.

3. Much is being made of the extra $2.9M that the Big 12 contract (which hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas centered than the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship game), we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games -- the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9M difference in the contract -- actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far. Any renegotiated amount depends not just on FSU but the caliber of any other new team to the Big 12.

4. Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of these teams and so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue.

6. It will cost between $20M and $25M to leave the ACC -- we have no idea where that money would come from. It would have to come from the Boosters which currently are unable to support our current University athletic budget, hence the 2% cut in that budget.

7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker -- and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.

Sounds like a "no" to me, but I am wishful of FSU staying. Interesting to me is that the FSU Prez is a former dean at UT and would indicate he has first hand knowledge of UT and its operations, as well as how well the Big 12 operates (read, how UT operates the Big 12).

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Especially FSU fans.

I commented on this in another thread. But this will ultimately cost him his job. The current President may win this fight, but will lose the war over time. It'll be curious who FSU chooses to lead their BOT here on out though.

I thought going to to the ACC may end the doubts of losing members to another conference. But 15 years of worrying about who could leave any given year will get tiresome and fast.

PS... Could you edit your OP to a few quotes of the most important items in this article. thx

Nice Synopsis. When I get the time, Im going to read the link. Thanks for sharing.

(05-14-2012 03:13 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I commented on this in another thread. But this will ultimately cost him his job. The current President may win this fight, but will lose the war over time. It'll be curious who FSU chooses to lead their BOT here on out though.

I thought going to to the ACC may end the doubts of losing members to another conference. But 15 years of worrying about who could leave any given year will get tiresome and fast.

PS... Could you edit your OP to a few quotes of the most important items in this article. thx

Sorry, did not see it, CP.

I don't thnk it costs the Prez his job. He is using reason to dispell some myths (i.e. most TV deals are back loaded and the current ACC amount v. the Big 12 average amount is used often but disingenuous, actual difference is less than $3MM). Also, he has clearly signalled to any suitor that the starting point of negotiations would be the buyout, travel expenses and a significant increase (they will not change conferences to break even/lose). Also, he has personal knowledge of UT and how UT is run and how it runs the Big 12, he may be stressing that the Big 12 is far less favorable than the SEC. Finally, he saves face by stressing academics. Besides, the path to the playoffs is easier in the ACC and I think FSU really does not want to change uinless it becomes necessary.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

My thoughts on this because I lived in Florida; Football is king and there is too much $$$ at stake. While the President may be right he has to convince the big money boosters that he is right. If the big money boosters feels the same way that the BOT Chairman does then the President is in trouble. They'll start to withdraw their money, and that my friend would be a huge cause for concern for the President. I do know that there will be plenty of FSU alums very pissed off if FSU doesn't make the move.

I especially liked bullet #7. Priorities, priorities.

And considering this guy came from UT, the Texas-centric comment and the dig at the conference's overall academics doesn't seem like he'll okay a move to the Big 12.

Could indeed cost him his job, but considering the mess the state of Florida is in terms of finances, he might not care.

Cheers,
Neil

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Andy Haggard is freelancing and not going about this in an informed manner. Just looking at this guys comments you can see that he did not give this a whole lot of thought. These rumors could all be true, but I'm still not buying it...

I wouldn't bet on Dr. Barron's longevity as FSU's president right about now. FSU has a very pissed off (and rightly so) fanbase. Dr. Barron needs to call up Max Lennon and ask him how his career went as President of Clemson after the Danny Ford/Ken Hatfield fiasco and a very pissed off fanbase.

(05-14-2012 08:44 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  I wouldn't bet on Dr. Barron's longevity as FSU's president right about now. FSU has a very pissed off (and rightly so) fanbase. Dr. Barron needs to call up Max Lennon and ask him how his career went as President of Clemson after the Danny Ford/Ken Hatfield fiasco and a very pissed off fanbase.

I cannot understand the logic behind a university president/chancellor being canned over athletics. If your prediction is correct and Barron is fired over athletics, then that would officially put FSU into the "Pathetic School" category. Pitt's OB for this year is $1.94 Billion. Athletics is a small part of that. I just looked up FSU and their 2012 OB is a little over $418 million. I did not realize it was so small and that a city school like Pitt could be almost 5 times bigger from a budgetary standpoint. The athletic budget is over 10% of the total budget! Holy crap! IMO, FSU needs the ACC more than ever if it wants to grow as a true academic destination for the best and the brightest. To grow this budget, it needs to go big into research. Those ACC connections should help FSU a whole lot more than the Big12 schools. Not trying to be rude in any way and not intentionally trying to flame any school, but the fans are going to end up making FSU trip over $20 bills in order to pick up those pennies. That's JMO, but you can't let the tail wag the dog.

Pitt's budget data

FSU budget data

FYI, FSU appears to have its med school separate. Med school is $46 mil for 2012 budget.

miko... Football is a totally different demon in north Florida compared to even State College. I could see him getting fired over this.

(05-14-2012 09:08 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  miko... Football is a totally different demon in north Florida compared to even State College. I could see him getting fired over this.

I'm sure you are right, but wow, that is just backwards. Thank goodness Nordenberg was not held to that standard, because he would have been fired after the FB mess with Wanny and Graham.

(05-14-2012 09:08 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  miko... Football is a totally different demon in north Florida compared to even State College. I could see him getting fired over this.

That's right. Down South, except the state between South Carolina and Virginia (so as not to upset any sensitive people) there are three seasons: College football season, spring football, and recruiting. Only one state below the Mason-Dixon line is an anachronism in that much like the Northeast football is just a sideshow until hoops starts.

lol @ enormous cost of Big 12 travel.

Tallahassee --> Syracuse = $500
Tallahassee --> Boston = $400
Tallahassee --> Miami = $200

Now let's go Big 12:
Tallahassee --> Des Moines = $500 (Ames doesn't have an airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Lubbock = $500
Tallahassee --> Oklahoma City = $500 (Stillwater has no airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Manhattan = $700


ACC teams located at a major air hub (read: CHEAP to fly): Georgia Tech, Maryland, Boston College, Pittsburgh, UNC, NCST, Duke, Miami.
ACC teams within a 60 minute drive of a major air hub: N/A
ACC teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Clemson (GSP), Wake Forest (PTI),
ACC teams located at a regional: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse
ACC teams in BFE: N/A

Big 12 teams located at a major air hub: TCU
Big 12 teams located within 60 minute drive of a major air hub: Kansas, Oklahoma
Big 12 teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Texas Tech, Texas, Iowa State
Big 12 teams located at a regional: Kansas State, Baylor
Big 12 teams in BFE: Oklahoma State, West Virginia

Every time you drop down a line costs go up. A flight from a low line to a low line cannot be had for under $500 ... usually approaching $1,000 a person.

Figures that most on here are calling Barron their idol. He got a lot of facts wrong. He sounded like a message board poster and not a university president. There were too many spelling and grammatical errors to count.

It was embarrassing for him and the university. More embarrassing than Haggard.

This didn't stop or change anything. It just made it worse. Not just the media attention this story will continue to receive but the backlash he will now receive for so blatantly misleading the public on so many key issues.

There are just a lot more questions than answers at this point.


An aside:
Barron would never ask Boosters for their approval to build a new Chemistry lab. Why does the faculty need to give approval to make a decision pertaining to athletics? Keep in mind that Florida state law prohibits the use of university funds to subsidize athletics.

(05-14-2012 10:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  lol @ enormous cost of Big 12 travel.

Tallahassee --> Syracuse = $500
Tallahassee --> Boston = $400
Tallahassee --> Miami = $200

Now let's go Big 12:
Tallahassee --> Des Moines = $500 (Ames doesn't have an airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Lubbock = $500
Tallahassee --> Oklahoma City = $500 (Stillwater has no airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Manhattan = $700


ACC teams located at a major air hub (read: CHEAP to fly): Georgia Tech, Maryland, Boston College, Pittsburgh, UNC, NCST, Duke, Miami.
ACC teams within a 60 minute drive of a major air hub: N/A
ACC teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Clemson (GSP), Wake Forest (PTI),
ACC teams located at a regional: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse
ACC teams in BFE: N/A

Big 12 teams located at a major air hub: TCU
Big 12 teams located within 60 minute drive of a major air hub: Kansas, Oklahoma
Big 12 teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Texas Tech, Texas, Iowa State
Big 12 teams located at a regional: Kansas State, Baylor
Big 12 teams in BFE: Oklahoma State, West Virginia

Every time you drop down a line costs go up. A flight from a low line to a low line cannot be had for under $500 ... usually approaching $1,000 a person.

The BigXII has subsidized travel off the top since the first day of their existence. Travel costs are almost as big of a red herring as travel concerns for olympic sports is.

(05-15-2012 12:33 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 10:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  lol @ enormous cost of Big 12 travel.

Tallahassee --> Syracuse = $500
Tallahassee --> Boston = $400
Tallahassee --> Miami = $200

Now let's go Big 12:
Tallahassee --> Des Moines = $500 (Ames doesn't have an airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Lubbock = $500
Tallahassee --> Oklahoma City = $500 (Stillwater has no airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Manhattan = $700


ACC teams located at a major air hub (read: CHEAP to fly): Georgia Tech, Maryland, Boston College, Pittsburgh, UNC, NCST, Duke, Miami.
ACC teams within a 60 minute drive of a major air hub: N/A
ACC teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Clemson (GSP), Wake Forest (PTI),
ACC teams located at a regional: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse
ACC teams in BFE: N/A

Big 12 teams located at a major air hub: TCU
Big 12 teams located within 60 minute drive of a major air hub: Kansas, Oklahoma
Big 12 teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Texas Tech, Texas, Iowa State
Big 12 teams located at a regional: Kansas State, Baylor
Big 12 teams in BFE: Oklahoma State, West Virginia

Every time you drop down a line costs go up. A flight from a low line to a low line cannot be had for under $500 ... usually approaching $1,000 a person.

The BigXII has subsidized travel off the top since the first day of their existence. Travel costs are almost as big of a red herring as travel concerns for olympic sports is.

That still affects your payout (the money has to come from SOMEWHERE), and it REALLY affects you ability to attract visiting team fans for $$$, and even home team fans for $$$. How many empty seats to play Iowa State? 10K?

(05-15-2012 02:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-15-2012 12:33 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-14-2012 10:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  lol @ enormous cost of Big 12 travel.

Tallahassee --> Syracuse = $500
Tallahassee --> Boston = $400
Tallahassee --> Miami = $200

Now let's go Big 12:
Tallahassee --> Des Moines = $500 (Ames doesn't have an airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Lubbock = $500
Tallahassee --> Oklahoma City = $500 (Stillwater has no airport..... )
Tallahassee --> Manhattan = $700


ACC teams located at a major air hub (read: CHEAP to fly): Georgia Tech, Maryland, Boston College, Pittsburgh, UNC, NCST, Duke, Miami.
ACC teams within a 60 minute drive of a major air hub: N/A
ACC teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Clemson (GSP), Wake Forest (PTI),
ACC teams located at a regional: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse
ACC teams in BFE: N/A

Big 12 teams located at a major air hub: TCU
Big 12 teams located within 60 minute drive of a major air hub: Kansas, Oklahoma
Big 12 teams located at a major regional airport with International designation: Texas Tech, Texas, Iowa State
Big 12 teams located at a regional: Kansas State, Baylor
Big 12 teams in BFE: Oklahoma State, West Virginia

Every time you drop down a line costs go up. A flight from a low line to a low line cannot be had for under $500 ... usually approaching $1,000 a person.

The BigXII has subsidized travel off the top since the first day of their existence. Travel costs are almost as big of a red herring as travel concerns for olympic sports is.

That still affects your payout (the money has to come from SOMEWHERE), and it REALLY affects you ability to attract visiting team fans for $$$, and even home team fans for $$$. How many empty seats to play Iowa State? 10K?

Is it really any more for the majority of ACC schools? Unlike Duke at least Iowa State has been to a bowl in the past 17 years.

Dunno about y'all but there are only three regular fanbases we count on traveling....FSU, GT, and South Carolina. We used to could count on two sellouts a year......one year GT and SC, the other FSU and the high profile opponent we lined up. Now we just have to hope that the boasts the Syracuse fans on this board have made about there hordes of traveling fans comes true. For the record I doubt it, so we have three sellouts to look forward to....FSU, GT, and South Carolina.

How sad must it be for these teams to not sellout their own home games with their own fans and they have to relay on visiting fans to sellout. Especially for a southern school.

(05-15-2012 02:28 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  Dunno about y'all but there are only three regular fanbases we count on traveling....FSU, GT, and South Carolina. We used to could count on two sellouts a year......one year GT and SC, the other FSU and the high profile opponent we lined up. Now we just have to hope that the boasts the Syracuse fans on this board have made about there hordes of traveling fans comes true. For the record I doubt it, so we have three sellouts to look forward to....FSU, GT, and South Carolina.

You brag about how that all South Carolina cares about is football, yet you complain that only certain schools draw enough interest in your own football program to sell out games.....

Does anyone actually have a reputable link that details this travel subsidy?