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And the seperation begins
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #61
RE: And the seperation begins
This was a huge blow to ACC and BE. The big 4 now have made the not playoff BCS bowls much less important and likely also cut their $$ value. What they just did is take some of the $$ that would have been in the playoff package and move it to their game. Rather than 44 mil to the top 6 conf maybe you end up with 38 to 40 mil. And the big 4 basically get to keep the difference. The ACC and BE(depending on tv deal) will still be in the game, but clearly tier 2. The other thing the B12 just did is pad its $$$ in order to try and get FSU/Clemson. and extra 1 or 2 mil per year for Big 12 to offer, and another 1 or 2 mil the ACC will not get.

Make no mistakes this 1 game deal was huge.
05-21-2012 07:55 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #62
RE: And the seperation begins
As for Miami, they were never in the B12's eyes. they are a private school with no real fan base even in fla. They are a distant #3 in fla.
05-21-2012 07:59 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #63
RE: And the seperation begins
The biggest element of the Big 12/SEC deal is cutting out the middle man. The ACC can also do that by creating a conference-owned bowl game.

The second element (the one everyone is fixated on) is tying up the SEC & Big 12 runners up (since both champs figure to be involved in the playoffs most years). What that REALLY means is that the best available non-playoff teams from the Pac 12, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC are now all spoken for. That means the best matchup for the ACC would be to take the field (highest ranked non-playoff team, regardless of conference).

IMO, this is what they need to do - (1) create a conference-owned bowl like the Big 12 & SEC just did jointly (but DON'T share the money with another conference - see next point), and (2) sign deals with Notre Dame, Big East, C-USA, Mtn West stating that their highest-ranked team will come to the ACC's bowl game in exchange for some fixed payout or fixed % of the gross, whatever is the best deal you can get them to agree to.

If the Orange Bowl works as a site for this game, fine - but I'd bid it out if it were me. There are lots of details to be worked out but I'd get the best negotiators I could find and tell them they can't leave the office until the deal is done.
05-21-2012 08:33 AM
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ringmaster Offline
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Post: #64
RE: And the seperation begins
(05-20-2012 09:56 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  From everyone's rumors everywhere it is apparent that the majority of the southern ACC teams are desired by multiple conferences. How many rumors have involved UMD, UVA, VT, UNC, NCSU, Duke, GT, Clemson, FSU, and Miami? I think most of them will be fine (maybe not Wake) but it is a shame to break the rivalries up. I would love to see an ACC division in the B1G or SEC if leaving the ACC is a must.

The schools on the east coast are not going to get left behind. I think it is up to everyone to dictate the future here though. I don't see a future in the B12...I hope everyone can get together and move as a group to to the B1G or SEC and keep together natural rivals.

I'd like nothing more than that. The problem I see is a max of 2 ACC teams can go to the SEC. A max of 4 can go to the Big 10. 5 or 6 could potentially go to the Big 12. Right now I think it's UNC and VT to the SEC. Maryland, UVA, Syracuse and Duke to the Big 10. FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State and Pitt (to go along with ND) to the Big 12, though two of those teams could be squeezed out if ND signs up early and they stop at 14. I'm worried about Wake, BC - OK mainly Wake.

The other scenario that could happen is the one brought up a lot about NC State and VT to the SEC, UNC, Duke, UVA and Maryland to the Big 10 and FSU, Clemson, GT, maybe Pitt to the Big 12 (depending on ND) and throw in UL.
05-21-2012 09:01 AM
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ringmaster Offline
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Post: #65
RE: And the seperation begins
(05-21-2012 08:33 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The biggest element of the Big 12/SEC deal is cutting out the middle man. The ACC can also do that by creating a conference-owned bowl game.

The second element (the one everyone is fixated on) is tying up the SEC & Big 12 runners up (since both champs figure to be involved in the playoffs most years). What that REALLY means is that the best available non-playoff teams from the Pac 12, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC are now all spoken for. That means the best matchup for the ACC would be to take the field (highest ranked non-playoff team, regardless of conference).

IMO, this is what they need to do - (1) create a conference-owned bowl like the Big 12 & SEC just did jointly (but DON'T share the money with another conference - see next point), and (2) sign deals with Notre Dame, Big East, C-USA, Mtn West stating that their highest-ranked team will come to the ACC's bowl game in exchange for some fixed payout or fixed % of the gross, whatever is the best deal you can get them to agree to.

If the Orange Bowl works as a site for this game, fine - but I'd bid it out if it were me. There are lots of details to be worked out but I'd get the best negotiators I could find and tell them they can't leave the office until the deal is done.

I think that's a very good, original idea, but the problem is still overall SOS. The SEC and Big 12 will likely sign a scheduling agreement like the Big 10 and Pac 12 did. If the ACC is still a viable conference, I actually think the word will be out with the other conferences' ADs to not schedule ACC opponents to keep us from having a high enough SOS to make it to a playoff. I just don't see the national media if it's the AP poll that matters or a selection committee EVER bypassing the entrants to those two marquee Rose bowls, especially if the ACC has lost FSU and Clemson at a minimum.
05-21-2012 09:09 AM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #66
RE: And the seperation begins
(05-21-2012 08:33 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The biggest element of the Big 12/SEC deal is cutting out the middle man. The ACC can also do that by creating a conference-owned bowl game.

The second element (the one everyone is fixated on) is tying up the SEC & Big 12 runners up (since both champs figure to be involved in the playoffs most years). What that REALLY means is that the best available non-playoff teams from the Pac 12, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC are now all spoken for. That means the best matchup for the ACC would be to take the field (highest ranked non-playoff team, regardless of conference).

IMO, this is what they need to do - (1) create a conference-owned bowl like the Big 12 & SEC just did jointly (but DON'T share the money with another conference - see next point), and (2) sign deals with Notre Dame, Big East, C-USA, Mtn West stating that their highest-ranked team will come to the ACC's bowl game in exchange for some fixed payout or fixed % of the gross, whatever is the best deal you can get them to agree to.

If the Orange Bowl works as a site for this game, fine - but I'd bid it out if it were me. There are lots of details to be worked out but I'd get the best negotiators I could find and tell them they can't leave the office until the deal is done.

Still think the ACC is better off with the third team from the Big Ten than the above. Remember that third team is likely to come from PSU, OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, and Wisconsin.

That's a ratings and attendance winner regardless of who the ACC champion is.

Will it get 30 million? No, but it could get $25 million. And it doesn't have to be the Orange Bowl every year. It could get bidded out between Miami, DC, and NYC. Which is why Big Ten #3 is a solid get.

The next step would be to work on an Atlanta Bowl with the SEC #3 or #4.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2012 09:27 AM by omniorange.)
05-21-2012 09:25 AM
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Lucy Offline
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Post: #67
RE: And the seperation begins
(05-21-2012 09:01 AM)ringmaster Wrote:  
(05-20-2012 09:56 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  From everyone's rumors everywhere it is apparent that the majority of the southern ACC teams are desired by multiple conferences. How many rumors have involved UMD, UVA, VT, UNC, NCSU, Duke, GT, Clemson, FSU, and Miami? I think most of them will be fine (maybe not Wake) but it is a shame to break the rivalries up. I would love to see an ACC division in the B1G or SEC if leaving the ACC is a must.

The schools on the east coast are not going to get left behind. I think it is up to everyone to dictate the future here though. I don't see a future in the B12...I hope everyone can get together and move as a group to to the B1G or SEC and keep together natural rivals.

I'd like nothing more than that. The problem I see is a max of 2 ACC teams can go to the SEC. A max of 4 can go to the Big 10. 5 or 6 could potentially go to the Big 12. Right now I think it's UNC and VT to the SEC. Maryland, UVA, Syracuse and Duke to the Big 10. FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State and Pitt (to go along with ND) to the Big 12, though two of those teams could be squeezed out if ND signs up early and they stop at 14. I'm worried about Wake, BC - OK mainly Wake.

The other scenario that could happen is the one brought up a lot about NC State and VT to the SEC, UNC, Duke, UVA and Maryland to the Big 10 and FSU, Clemson, GT, maybe Pitt to the Big 12 (depending on ND) and throw in UL.

The Big 10 is a football conference more than anything else. They already have Northwestern as their academic school with a typically weak football program...they don't want Duke who hasn't been relevant in football (nor been to a bowl game) since Fred Goldsmith had a cup of coffee in Durham in the mid-90s.
05-21-2012 09:57 AM
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ringmaster Offline
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Post: #68
RE: And the seperation begins
(05-21-2012 09:57 AM)Lucy Wrote:  
(05-21-2012 09:01 AM)ringmaster Wrote:  
(05-20-2012 09:56 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  From everyone's rumors everywhere it is apparent that the majority of the southern ACC teams are desired by multiple conferences. How many rumors have involved UMD, UVA, VT, UNC, NCSU, Duke, GT, Clemson, FSU, and Miami? I think most of them will be fine (maybe not Wake) but it is a shame to break the rivalries up. I would love to see an ACC division in the B1G or SEC if leaving the ACC is a must.

The schools on the east coast are not going to get left behind. I think it is up to everyone to dictate the future here though. I don't see a future in the B12...I hope everyone can get together and move as a group to to the B1G or SEC and keep together natural rivals.

I'd like nothing more than that. The problem I see is a max of 2 ACC teams can go to the SEC. A max of 4 can go to the Big 10. 5 or 6 could potentially go to the Big 12. Right now I think it's UNC and VT to the SEC. Maryland, UVA, Syracuse and Duke to the Big 10. FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State and Pitt (to go along with ND) to the Big 12, though two of those teams could be squeezed out if ND signs up early and they stop at 14. I'm worried about Wake, BC - OK mainly Wake.

The other scenario that could happen is the one brought up a lot about NC State and VT to the SEC, UNC, Duke, UVA and Maryland to the Big 10 and FSU, Clemson, GT, maybe Pitt to the Big 12 (depending on ND) and throw in UL.

The Big 10 is a football conference more than anything else. They already have Northwestern as their academic school with a typically weak football program...they don't want Duke who hasn't been relevant in football (nor been to a bowl game) since Fred Goldsmith had a cup of coffee in Durham in the mid-90s.

Lucy, I was actually a Wake fan growing up and went to Dave Odom's basketball camp for 2 years. I cheered for Randolph Childress when he hit the floater in the ACC tourney final against UNC with 22 seconds left, and it killed me when he got hurt when Wake was a #1 seed in the tourney and lost to OSU I think. My favorite player growing up was none other than Tyrone "Muggsy" Bogues. The reason I ended up going to UNC was because I didn't want my parents or myself to have to go into debt to go to Wake. Now I am a full convert to UNC, don't get me wrong, but I definitely have a strong favorite second team in the ACC and that is Wake Forest. If it came down to two I'd love Wake and UNC as a pair to the Big 10. I wonder though how the Big 10 sees the UNC/Duke basketball rivalry and how important that is to them. I think football's become more important so you've got my vote for Wake, not that my vote matters, but still ...
05-21-2012 10:48 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #69
RE: And the seperation begins
If the ACC does in fact break up, I think the only conference which would take BC, Duke & Wake would be the Big East. The reason I say that is because those schools are simply too small to fit in with the SEC or the Big Ten. Syracuse might also be in that same boat, though there is a chance the Big Ten might take them.

I'd be surprised if Notre Dame joined the Big 12. At this point I don't see any reason for them not to remain independent, though that could change if they are no longer able to schedule USC, Stanford, Michigan, and Michigan State. As long as those 4 teams remain on the schedule, N.D. remains independent, IMO.
05-21-2012 11:16 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #70
RE: And the seperation begins
If the ACC wants to survive long-term, they'd have to make moves designed to kill the Big-12. It may be too late for that. The only move I see is to agree to accept not only Notre Dame but also Texas as non-football members and to agree to schedule both schools up to 11 games per year in football (on a priority basis) in order to play to Texas' ego and encourage them to break away from the Big 12 and go independent. If Texas left the Big 12, that conference would be the one in danger rather than the ACC... but there would have to be some serious compromises to even entertain such a scenario. Call it the "M.A.D." scenario.

On the other hand, if the Big 12 does raid the ACC, I hope they take 8 teams so we can still play each other without having to play a bunch of teams on the other side of the Mississippi River every year. I'd like to see Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson, NC State, Va Tech, Virginia and Pitt all go together. Combine those with WVU and you'd have a very dynamic Eastern division, IMO. What I don't want to see is FSU & Clemson to the Big 12 while Va Tech & NC State to the SEC - then the Hokies only get to play FSU & Clemson once every 10 years or so (I guess we could schedule Miami & Ga Tech out of conference, but who knows if that would even work out).

THIS ALL STINKS! I still hope some last minute deal is worked out to allow the ACC to stay together, but so far all of the deals have been going the other way. If Swofford was playing poker with the other commissioners he'd have lost his shirt by now!
05-21-2012 11:28 AM
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