The better ? is what is lost by the acc? texas and nd even without football might look good to fsu and others to join the big 12. Just think the tipping balance would have occurred. Of course, the downside is texas might very well try to go indy someday but that's a different topic. Another issue, i always thought the acc can get smaller by getting bigger. Bring in ND + rutgers and create two 8 team divisions. Thus, the 8 pack in the original acc can have the original acc feel while the other division is more of a big east feel.

coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech, clemson, fsu

atlantic: bc, cuse, rutgers, maryland, pitt, ND, gtech, miami

play 14 division games, i.e. everybody h/a and 4 rotated games from the other division. Football only invite to byu.

(06-20-2012 03:55 PM)JoeMing Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:38 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  The ACC better see the value too! This would be real bad for the ACC.

ACC should consider a similar deal with ND for 6 fb games. It can even treate 6 fb-game member as a full member. Or ACC can take ND, GTown, St. Johns, and Nova as non-fb members.

You offer all sports and ask ND what FB games they want to continue with annually? Then ask to rotate through the other teams on a schedule. You bring ND into your Bowl aggreements.

(06-20-2012 03:57 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:50 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:48 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Lol at the Big East if this happens.

I think the Big East would split if ND leaves too.

Do the majority of them just join the A10?

I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier

The trend is to larger conferences. I think they look at joining the A10.

The rules are set up to discourage new conferences being formed.

(06-20-2012 03:53 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:51 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I think this is a an excellent move for the big 12 if it can land Nd without football...not sure its a good move for ND but that's another issue. Big 12 could add ND and nobody else or go with the byu football only route to pair with ND, than target 1-3 football school's to balance everything. Another option is Depaul and the chicago market to pair with ND but that just seems ?. I will state again, insane for the acc to not match this offer for ND without football. Nd seems like a better fit for the acc and i would guess they would accept it over the big 12 invite as long as football is still indy.

What is gained by having ND join without football? They already play about 4 games with ACC schools already.

The national ND fans are fans of their football team. I don't know how many of those t-shirt fans care that they have a basketball team.

Notre Dame has a basketball team?

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

The ND Men's soccer team would make travel sense in the MAC. WV has also joined the MAC in soccer for 2012.

(06-20-2012 03:53 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn. When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I'm sorry but the Big East might be a "known" in basketball but those Catholic schools + UL + Uconn are the biggest name brands they've got left. The Catholic schools have tiny fanbases in comparison to the Big 12. The Big 12 is made up of major players across the board in college sports, not just basketball. I wouldn't be surprised if ND felt like they "identified" more with the Big 12 than the Big East now.

If ND goes to the Big 12 you can almost be guaranteed UL will be in tow.

Those Catholic schools may have small fan bases, but the towns they are located in have huge Notre Dame fan bases. Notre Dame is a large private catholic university. Im sure they enjoy thier ties to other catholic universities.

As to Louisville, perhaps they do get asked to the Big-12. But I believe they have been bumped a little further down the list now with all the new interest in ACC targets. Frankly, I dont think the Big 12 will do anything. They are at 10 and will likely remain at 10. There doesnt seem to be a huge advantage to moving to 12 and there seems to be little support from Texas on the expansion trail unless a big fish like Florida St or Notre Dame can be bagged.

(06-20-2012 03:59 PM)bluesox Wrote:  The better ? is what is lost by the acc? texas and nd even without football might look good to fsu and others to join the big 12. Just think the tipping balance would have occurred. Of course, the downside is texas might very well try to go indy someday but that's a different topic. Another issue, i always thought the acc can get smaller by getting bigger. Bring in ND + rutgers and create two 8 team divisions. Thus, the 8 pack in the original acc can have the original acc feel while the other division is more of a big east feel.

coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, maryland, clemson, fsu

atlantic: bc, cuse, rutgers, maryland, pitt, ND, gtech, miami

play 14 division games, i.e. everybody h/a and 4 rotated games from the other division. Football only invite to byu.

Georgia Tech would want to be in the "old ACC" group.

Also, if the 16th hoops team is a no-fb school such as Georgetown (rather than Rutgers or any other school with FBS fb), then you have even numbers for fb and bb.

(06-20-2012 03:56 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:52 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:14 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Sounds like a bidding war between the Big Texas XII and the ACC.

Shouldn't be, but you are probably right.

Notre Dame without football brings nothing of value to the ACC other than another mouth to feed.

LOL...you obviously are too provincial to understand.

It's not like they are a power in basketball. They've made the tournament eight times in the past 20 years with a Sweet Sixteen as the high point. Clemson, who isn't a basketball power by any means, made it seven times in the same time frame, with a Sweet Sixteen as a high point.

They aren't bringing football, so there is no value there. They say they would play X number of games against whichever conference they join, but the told the BE the same thing and have yet to fulfill that promise.

Their basketball is slightly better than Clemson, a school that isn't anywhere close to a basketball power, yet because of the 80/20 split of the ACC contract they are going to have to bring in an overwhelming amount of money in basketball to offset the amount of money they are going to take out.

I simply don't see it happening.

Chip Brown is reporting the same thing.

(06-20-2012 03:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  The B12 doesn't have the balls to tell ND all or nothing?

We don't need to. This is about adding a quality non-fb program, 4 quality SOS games with high $$$$ for the networks, and kneecapping any chance they join the ACC and keep us from a good shot at landing 2 big fish in FSU and Clemson.

[Maybe they'd play UT and OU annually for 2 games and then use the other 2 games to rotate through the rest of the Big 12 (giving all of them games against ND 2 years out of every 8-eyar cycle, which could be enough to sway the non-UT/OU members]

I cannot imagine that Oklahoma will agree to play ND annually at the expense of playing all other top non-conference opponents. Maybe Texas will.

1. This deal would be great for the Big 12. It would give it a name brand in hoops, even more power with bowls, and extra influence.

2. With #1 said, I don't really see this being a good deal for Notre Dame. In the Big East, they have no automatic football commitments (for Big 12 teams a year plus their regulars is going to seriously cramp their schedule when they must have 7-1-4 for TV). Notre Dame is also a school that identifies as east coast (even though its in the Midwest) and relies on east followers to keep its place. I'll grant the bowls will be better, the money will probably be better (not split as many ways), and the conference will be more stable, but I don't think the pluses outweigh the minuses.

3. The ACC is should be making this same offer and then the interest would be more mutual. It would be a big opportunity to for them solidly their gains in the northeast. The extra games against Notre Dame might well also be a bigger deal for the ACC.

4. My guess is that if this comes to pass, Notre Dame isn't eligible for the Big 12/SEC Bowl, but will be for any other Big 12 tie-in.

5. If this is reaching the news now, there's a decent chance (although far from a certainty) it's a done deal already.

(06-20-2012 04:08 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:56 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:52 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:14 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Sounds like a bidding war between the Big Texas XII and the ACC.

Shouldn't be, but you are probably right.

Notre Dame without football brings nothing of value to the ACC other than another mouth to feed.

LOL...you obviously are too provincial to understand.

It's not like they are a power in basketball. They've made the tournament eight times in the past 20 years with a Sweet Sixteen as the high point. Clemson, who isn't a basketball power by any means, made it seven times in the same time frame, with a Sweet Sixteen as a high point.

They aren't bringing football, so there is no value there. They say they would play X number of games against whichever conference they join, but the told the BE the same thing and have yet to fulfill that promise.

Their basketball is slightly better than Clemson, a school that isn't anywhere close to a basketball power, yet because of the 80/20 split of the ACC contract they are going to have to bring in an overwhelming amount of money in basketball to offset the amount of money they are going to take out.

I simply don't see it happening.

There's value simply because of the possiblity of a full membership in the future. If ND isn't happy in the Big East you offer them something for that future possibility. If nothing else WVU gets a school closeby that could offset a BYU football only membership. The BYU talks stalled because they didn't want to play other sports on Sunday.

In Big 12 ND, Texas and BYU could have their own revenue streams outside of the Big 12 TV contract. They probably wouldn't be able to do that in the ACC unless the ACC changes their stance on partial memberships and television contracts.

I'm still not clear on what the Big12 gains by adding ND for Olympic sports. Are they known for any sports besides football?

(06-20-2012 03:38 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:35 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:19 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  The B12 doesn't have the balls to tell ND all or nothing?

Why would you tell ND that and then ruin any chance whatsoever at getting them for all sports in the future? It has nothing to do with not having "balls". It has everything to do with making a smart business decision. Notre Dame is going to do whatever they want to do as long as they have a large following and an NBC over the air TV deal that trumps everybody.

ND has been slipping of late, their partial membership in the BE has lead to part of the BE's problems.

B12 lays down the law about coming over and not bowing to their elitist football demands then things will change for the better. The B12 has the tv money to not need ND as much as ND might need them when the BE for all their other sports goes south.

Clearly, the Big 12 thinks differently than you.

If the "Big 12 laid down the law", then their offer would be met with a quick, polite "no" by ND.

Then, ND would just play their other sports in the Big East.

The Big 12 clearly sees value in making a partial, hybrid, no football offer to ND.

The ACC better see the value too! This would be real bad for the ACC.

How would it be bad for the ACC for them not to offer a non-football membership to ND?

(06-20-2012 03:53 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  If ND goes to the Big 12 you can almost be guaranteed UL will be in tow.

I find the two not really linked. UL may or may not be invited but ND joining partially isn't related IMO.

(06-20-2012 04:12 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:08 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:56 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:52 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:14 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Sounds like a bidding war between the Big Texas XII and the ACC.

Shouldn't be, but you are probably right.

Notre Dame without football brings nothing of value to the ACC other than another mouth to feed.

LOL...you obviously are too provincial to understand.

It's not like they are a power in basketball. They've made the tournament eight times in the past 20 years with a Sweet Sixteen as the high point. Clemson, who isn't a basketball power by any means, made it seven times in the same time frame, with a Sweet Sixteen as a high point.

They aren't bringing football, so there is no value there. They say they would play X number of games against whichever conference they join, but the told the BE the same thing and have yet to fulfill that promise.

Their basketball is slightly better than Clemson, a school that isn't anywhere close to a basketball power, yet because of the 80/20 split of the ACC contract they are going to have to bring in an overwhelming amount of money in basketball to offset the amount of money they are going to take out.

I simply don't see it happening.

There's value simply because of the possiblity of a full membership in the future. If ND isn't happy in the Big East you offer them something for that future possibility. If nothing else WVU gets a school closeby that could offset a BYU football only membership. The BYU talks stalled because they didn't want to play other sports on Sunday.

In Big 12 ND, Texas and BYU could have their own revenue streams outside of the Big 12 TV contract. They probably wouldn't be able to do that in the ACC unless the ACC changes their stance on partial memberships and television contracts.

I was talking about the ACC offering ND the same option.

It would make sense for the Big XII since they haven't completed contract negotiations, thus would have ND figured into any payout, whereas in the ACC they would be taking money away from every ACC school until the 5 year window period.

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

(06-20-2012 04:11 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  3. The ACC is should be making this same offer and then the interest would be more mutual. It would be a big opportunity to for them solidly their gains in the northeast. The extra games against Notre Dame might well also be a bigger deal for the ACC.

4. My guess is that if this comes to pass, Notre Dame isn't eligible for the Big 12/SEC Bowl, but will be for any other Big 12 tie-in.

If (4) is right, that's two points where the ACC could beat the B12's offer: Tell ND they only have to play 2 or 3 ACC opponents in football, and give them access to the Orange Bowl.

Again, that's if the ACC is smart enough and awake enough to do that.

(06-20-2012 04:10 PM)MiamiWolv Wrote:  [Maybe they'd play UT and OU annually for 2 games and then use the other 2 games to rotate through the rest of the Big 12 (giving all of them games against ND 2 years out of every 8-eyar cycle, which could be enough to sway the non-UT/OU members]

I cannot imagine that Oklahoma will agree to play ND annually at the expense of playing all other top non-conference opponents. Maybe Texas will.

I do not imagine Oklahoma would stop playing other top non-conference opponents, especially if the strength of schedule is adopted as is likely