I follow the directions laid out in the book, nothing I've said is religious dogma or beliefs that aren't there.

(07-13-2012 08:13 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I was kidding about the white house and I agree about televangelist's homes. If they live extravagantly they should be taxed on it. Problem is who decides what extravagant is? You? Me? IRS? Back to the class warfare argument and separation stuff. If government doesn't want preachers steering elections from the pulpit and they would and it would work they'll leave our tax status alone.

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

First of all, church - state separation isn't stuff. Its part of our Constitution.

Here's how I would implement this rule.

1) Any housing allowance worth more than 2,000 per month should be taxed as regular income. Parsonages would have to calculate the free market rental income of the property and the pastor would have to pay income tax on the difference. Only one pastor should receive a parsonage allowance per church organization per local area.

2) Housing payments or pastor salaries (including immediate families) and consulting fees in excess of 20% of gross receipts will result in a 20% recapture tax being paid from the organization to the state.

3) A limit of 150,000 dollars per family should be paid in tax deductable income from tax deductable dollars. The same 20% recapture rule should be paid from the organization to the state from the organization.

4) A 33% recapture tax should be paid by charitable/non-profit organizations engaged in lobbying or political activity (including initiative campaign activity). The Unions would hate this.

5) All organizations claiming tax exemptions in excess of 10,000,000 per year must file the following disclosures... 1) A list of assets and liabilities...2) a detailed income statement showing all payments in excess of 50,000 per year to any entity and purpose (that would include payments to settle litigation). The Mormons, The Salvation Army, and the Catholic Church would hate that.

6) A prohibition of any one family entity being involved with more than one registered charity at any given time. Chain church pastors and rich people with multiple phony charities to pay for second homes in the Keys or artwork would hate that rule.

7) A requirement that charities/non-profits prove their worth to the community at large. This would be to stop rich people forming 'non-profits' for their own benefit. Property owned by non-profits/charities (and therefore exempt from parsonage treatment) must be employed in some public purpose.

8) Investments held by charities/non-profits should be subject to property tax. A charity owning a shopping mall should pay property taxes/municipal fees on the commercial portion of that property.

How's that for a start.

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did not tell the harlot "Go ahead and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

(07-14-2012 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

Never mentioned rape or pedophilia either.. He did however say he did not come to do away with the law..

Please point to where anyone claimed he did?

(07-14-2012 12:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Please point to where anyone claimed he did?

Oh I thought he (Tom) was just making a useless list of specific sins that Jesus did not mention... you know trying to justify things like Homosexuality because Jesus did not specifically mention it..

I guess that provision only applies to things that are politically correct.

(07-14-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Please point to where anyone claimed he did?

Oh I thought he (Tom) was just making a useless list of specific sins that Jesus did not mention... you know trying to justify things like Homosexuality because Jesus did not specifically mention it..

I guess that provision only applies to things that are politically correct.

No, you specifically mentioned that 'He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!' in response to my post, when I never made that claim.

I never claimed he abolished the law, I claimed that Jesus signified a visible and undeniable departure from the vengeful god of the old testament to the loving and forgiving god of the new. Which, he did, hence why Jesus spent his time following and living with the lowest of the low, healing the sick, and why he allowed his only son to be murdered for our sins.

(07-14-2012 01:14 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:56 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Please point to where anyone claimed he did?

Oh I thought he (Tom) was just making a useless list of specific sins that Jesus did not mention... you know trying to justify things like Homosexuality because Jesus did not specifically mention it..

I guess that provision only applies to things that are politically correct.

No, you specifically mentioned that 'He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!' in response to my post, when I never made that claim.

I never claimed he abolished the law, I claimed that Jesus signified a visible and undeniable departure from the vengeful god of the old testament to the loving and forgiving god of the new. Which, he did, hence why Jesus spent his time following and living with the lowest of the low, healing the sick, and why he allowed his only son to be murdered for our sins.

So you don't think God is vengeful anymore? What happens to an unrepentant sinner when they die?

God's vengeance has not abated, it has been put on Christ and those who go to Christ and repent of their sins. Christ dying, *as vengeful punishment* for *our* sins is the ultimate evidence that God is as vengeful as ever.

Simply put in his love and mercy, which were also present in the old testament, he provided another outlet for his vengeance against our sins.

But make no mistakes, and Jesus made this abundantly clear, those who live in their sins (unrepentant sinners) are going to go to hell. To see someone living in sin and say nothing is as 'merciful' as watching a child walk into traffic and not scream at them to turn around.

(07-14-2012 12:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 08:13 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I was kidding about the white house and I agree about televangelist's homes. If they live extravagantly they should be taxed on it. Problem is who decides what extravagant is? You? Me? IRS? Back to the class warfare argument and separation stuff. If government doesn't want preachers steering elections from the pulpit and they would and it would work they'll leave our tax status alone.

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

First of all, church - state separation isn't stuff. Its part of our Constitution.

Here's how I would implement this rule.

1) Any housing allowance worth more than 2,000 per month should be taxed as regular income. Parsonages would have to calculate the free market rental income of the property and the pastor would have to pay income tax on the difference. Only one pastor should receive a parsonage allowance per church organization per local area.

2) Housing payments or pastor salaries (including immediate families) and consulting fees in excess of 20% of gross receipts will result in a 20% recapture tax being paid from the organization to the state.

3) A limit of 150,000 dollars per family should be paid in tax deductable income from tax deductable dollars. The same 20% recapture rule should be paid from the organization to the state from the organization.

4) A 33% recapture tax should be paid by charitable/non-profit organizations engaged in lobbying or political activity (including initiative campaign activity). The Unions would hate this.

5) All organizations claiming tax exemptions in excess of 10,000,000 per year must file the following disclosures... 1) A list of assets and liabilities...2) a detailed income statement showing all payments in excess of 50,000 per year to any entity and purpose (that would include payments to settle litigation). The Mormons, The Salvation Army, and the Catholic Church would hate that.

6) A prohibition of any one family entity being involved with more than one registered charity at any given time. Chain church pastors and rich people with multiple phony charities to pay for second homes in the Keys or artwork would hate that rule.

7) A requirement that charities/non-profits prove their worth to the community at large. This would be to stop rich people forming 'non-profits' for their own benefit. Property owned by non-profits/charities (and therefore exempt from parsonage treatment) must be employed in some public purpose.

8) Investments held by charities/non-profits should be subject to property tax. A charity owning a shopping mall should pay property taxes/municipal fees on the commercial portion of that property.

How's that for a start.

Negative ghost rider. The only thing that should be taxed is the private property of ministers off church grounds. Absolutely NOTHING under the umbrella of the church should be taxed. Separation goes both ways.We'll stay out of government and government must stay out of the church.

(07-14-2012 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

Well, not so much. Only if you believe the Bible isn't the divinely inspired inerrant word of God. Kind of a requirement to be a Christian.

The war on drugs is frucking stupid and a waste of billions if not trillions of US dollars.

(07-15-2012 10:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The war on drugs is frucking stupid and a waste of billions if not trillions of US dollars.

So are/were the 2 wars. So are subsidies to the oil companies.

(07-15-2012 10:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 10:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The war on drugs is frucking stupid and a waste of billions if not trillions of US dollars.

So are/were the 2 wars. So are subsidies to the oil companies.

I don't know which two wars? The oil company subsidies are stupid too. Did you know the USA produces more oil than any other country each year except for russia and Saudi Arabia?

(07-15-2012 10:57 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 10:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 10:46 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The war on drugs is frucking stupid and a waste of billions if not trillions of US dollars.

So are/were the 2 wars. So are subsidies to the oil companies.

I don't know which two wars? The oil company subsidies are stupid too. Did you know the USA produces more oil than any other country each year except for russia and Saudi Arabia?

Iraq and Afghanistan. Though, there is a litte bit of a legit reason for Afghanistan-just not 10 years and billions(trillion) worth.

I can't say I disagree

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Old Dirty, you're ignoring the fact that the overwhelming majority of people suffering from AIDS have AIDS through no fault of their own. I know you only see what you want, but there's a little continent across the ocean which has untold millions of children who were born or exposed to HIV.

Nature's solution to over-population? Back to evolution, which apparently only happens when it suits your argument.

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

A.(Malachi 3:6) - "For I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."

James 1:17: "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

Isaiah 26:3-4
You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you. Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

(07-15-2012 07:08 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

Well, not so much. Only if you believe the Bible isn't the divinely inspired inerrant word of God. Kind of a requirement to be a Christian.

It absolutely isn't a requirement, and you're not addressing his question. Where did Jesus ever condemn homosexuality?

And Old Dirty, none of those scriptures are relevant and it concerns me that you actually think they somehow are.

(07-16-2012 09:47 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 07:08 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

Well, not so much. Only if you believe the Bible isn't the divinely inspired inerrant word of God. Kind of a requirement to be a Christian.

It absolutely isn't a requirement, and you're not addressing his question. Where did Jesus ever condemn homosexuality?

And Old Dirty, none of those scriptures are relevant and it concerns me that you actually think they somehow are.

It is a requirement. Specifically which parts do you not believe? Convenient ones I'm sure. See, the problem with people like you who call themselves Christians is you like to pick and choose what to believe so as not to conflict with how you want to live your life. If you believe the Holy Bible is the divinely inspired inerrant word of God then EVERYTHING written in it came from God and must be taken as such. The Trinity is no different. Belief in the Holy Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit) means they all(all are one) inspired the Bible. So when verses condemn homosexuality it came from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. Gays don't like this but anything to make them feel better right? Living in unrepentant sin condemns them to Hell. Sad but true. Damnation is a choice they made.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

(07-16-2012 09:47 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 07:08 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-14-2012 08:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  God doesn't care only about America, and he isn't the vengeful God from the old testament, if you want to believe that, you're not a christian (for that is the *ENTIRE* reason christ was sent per the bible)

Scripture be damned.... I want to feel nice!

Christ was not send to make God tolerant of sin, Christ was sent to be forgiven for it..

He did tell the harlot "Go head and Sin, I've got you covered", he said "go and sin no more". He also was very specific that he did not come to abolish the law!

If anything Jesus raised the bar for what is and is not sin.

He also didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality. Not. One. Word.

Well, not so much. Only if you believe the Bible isn't the divinely inspired inerrant word of God. Kind of a requirement to be a Christian.

It absolutely isn't a requirement, and you're not addressing his question. Where did Jesus ever condemn homosexuality?

Non-sequiter

Quote:And Old Dirty, none of those scriptures are relevant and it concerns me that you actually think they somehow are.

It concerns me that you think parts of the Bible you find 'icky' and unpopular are non important..