(07-11-2012 02:26 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 12:44 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  Hopefully ND is never offered partial membership by the ACC. If that's what they're looking for the Big 12 can have them.

I'm pretty sure an open-ended offer of partial membership in the ACC is not happening. If such a deal is ever struck it would include 4 to 6 football games with full membership after so many years (and a substantial buy-out if ND changes their mind)... IMHO (what do I know?)

Then, that recent meeting was likely only about the Orange Bowl, perhaps a opening "classic" game, because ND will likely not be interested in such a proposal.

Why would they?

I can't say what they did or didn't talk about but I would imagine the meeting was to talk about the Orange Bowl tie-in and maybe a season opener series as you mentioned.

Obviously ND has exactly what they want - football independence. Until they're forced to give it up, they won't. There's really no answer to why they would accept a deal to join the ACC in full. Money doesn't matter to them like it does other schools and so even assuming the ACC could cut a deal that would make ND more money by joining than by staying independent they would still likely balk at it. In addition, the new system protects ND's ability to play for national titles so they have no incentive to give up their independence.

All I can say is that I would be sorely disappointed if the ACC decides to cater to ND and offer partial membership. That's not been the ACC way and special exceptions should not be made for ND.

(07-11-2012 12:32 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 11:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  ESPN's take on the Big 12 as a partner for Notre Dame.

http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-footb...ity-big-12

I think that if the Big 12 will offer partial membership to ND in return for 3-4 football games a year, then ND will strongly consider it.

I think that if the ACC will offer partial membership to ND in return for 3-4 football games a year, then ND will strongly consider it.

The one that offers it will have a chance of getting ND to move the other sports to that conference.

If neither offer it, ND will keep those other sports in the Big East.

I don't really think that "fit" enters into it as much as which conference (if either) will make the better offer to ND.

3 - 4 games? That's offering nothing. Your school is already playing the ACC on average over 3 games a year over the last several years. It would be hard to come to an agreement with that. If you are talking 5 to 6 you are getting in the ballpark.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/...both_sides

Although Hardin (Greensboro News and Record) is NOT an ACC homer his perspective is interesting. Taking the same information, his conclusion of the Orange Bowl deal is interesting. ......."A lot has happened, and one of the biggest developments in college football was the lifeline the ACC threw to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame. Don't underestimate the importance of the gesture. The Irish sure won't. Notre Dame and the ACC are at least looking at the posibility of merging.".......

(07-11-2012 06:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/...both_sides

Although Hardin (Greensboro News and Record) is NOT an ACC homer his perspective is interesting. Taking the same information, his conclusion of the Orange Bowl deal is interesting. ......."A lot has happened, and one of the biggest developments in college football was the lifeline the ACC threw to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame. Don't underestimate the importance of the gesture. The Irish sure won't. Notre Dame and the ACC are at least looking at the posibility of merging.".......

requires a subscription

(07-11-2012 07:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 06:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/...both_sides

Although Hardin (Greensboro News and Record) is NOT an ACC homer his perspective is interesting. Taking the same information, his conclusion of the Orange Bowl deal is interesting. ......."A lot has happened, and one of the biggest developments in college football was the lifeline the ACC threw to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame. Don't underestimate the importance of the gesture. The Irish sure won't. Notre Dame and the ACC are at least looking at the posibility of merging.".......

requires a subscription

sorry ....I can't get around the subscription requirement to post the entire article.

ESPN looks at the Big East re: Notre Dame

http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-footb...y-big-east

(07-11-2012 07:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 07:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 06:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/...both_sides

Although Hardin (Greensboro News and Record) is NOT an ACC homer his perspective is interesting. Taking the same information, his conclusion of the Orange Bowl deal is interesting. ......."A lot has happened, and one of the biggest developments in college football was the lifeline the ACC threw to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame. Don't underestimate the importance of the gesture. The Irish sure won't. Notre Dame and the ACC are at least looking at the posibility of merging.".......

requires a subscription

sorry ....I can't get around the subscription requirement to post the entire article.

I got the one-day subscription for $.50 so here it is:
Irish and ACC makes sense for both sides

This post has been edited to delete the article due to a conflict with the AUP.

Ringmaster - we aren't to post full articles due to intellectual property concerns. Could you summarize the article and take the entire article down please? If not, I'm going to have to edit the post.

(07-11-2012 05:05 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 12:32 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 11:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  ESPN's take on the Big 12 as a partner for Notre Dame.

http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-footb...ity-big-12

I think that if the Big 12 will offer partial membership to ND in return for 3-4 football games a year, then ND will strongly consider it.

I think that if the ACC will offer partial membership to ND in return for 3-4 football games a year, then ND will strongly consider it.

The one that offers it will have a chance of getting ND to move the other sports to that conference.

If neither offer it, ND will keep those other sports in the Big East.

I don't really think that "fit" enters into it as much as which conference (if either) will make the better offer to ND.

3 - 4 games? That's offering nothing. Your school is already playing the ACC on average over 3 games a year over the last several years. It would be hard to come to an agreement with that. If you are talking 5 to 6 you are getting in the ballpark.

Then, I don't think that there will be an agreement......

That article is obviously (and understandably) slanted towards the ACC despite the author allegedly not being an ACC homer. He does live and work in Greensboro, not South Bend.

The article is chock full of quotes from ACC people. Noticeably absent are any quotes of interest in joining the ACC as a full member from any ND person, source, blog, "insider" or anyone at all, for that matter.

He also doesn't mention the issues surrounding FSU and Clemson regarding the Big 12. He also mentions but fails to explain exactly how ND needs the ACC more than the opposite.

Now, I certainly don't believe all of the stuff put out "The Dude" and most of the stuff written on the WVU Scout Realignment Board.

But....this guy doesn't mention or acknowledge any problems that the ACC may have in that regard or because of the ESPN TV contract.

He also doesn't discuss the issue of Notre Dame's plans for a digital network or how ND's Tier 3 rights would be handled or addressed.

(07-11-2012 08:41 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That article is obviously (and understandably) slanted towards the ACC despite the author allegedly not being an ACC homer. He does live and work in Greensboro, not South Bend.

The article is chock full of quotes from ACC people. Noticeably absent are any quotes of interest in joining the ACC as a full member from any ND person, source, blog, "insider" or anyone at all, for that matter.

He also doesn't mention the issues surrounding FSU and Clemson regarding the Big 12. He also mentions but fails to explain exactly how ND needs the ACC more than the opposite.

Now, I certainly don't believe all of the stuff put out "The Dude" and most of the stuff written on the WVU Scout Realignment Board.

But....this guy doesn't mention or acknowledge any problems that the ACC may have in that regard or because of the ESPN TV contract.

He also doesn't discuss the issue of Notre Dame's plans for a digital network or how ND's Tier 3 rights would be handled or addressed.

Terry what our Cuse mole is saying:

Appears that the ACC and Notre Dame are holding the line on what was offered by both sides....ACC is not caving into Notre Dame at this point....nor is Notre Dame throwing into the ACC towel as yet. On top of this other conferences are balking at a Notre Dame tie in to the Orange Bowl....it could get very interesting in discussions. I will come back when I have been told something more substantive.

(07-11-2012 10:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-11-2012 08:41 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That article is obviously (and understandably) slanted towards the ACC despite the author allegedly not being an ACC homer. He does live and work in Greensboro, not South Bend.

The article is chock full of quotes from ACC people. Noticeably absent are any quotes of interest in joining the ACC as a full member from any ND person, source, blog, "insider" or anyone at all, for that matter.

He also doesn't mention the issues surrounding FSU and Clemson regarding the Big 12. He also mentions but fails to explain exactly how ND needs the ACC more than the opposite.

Now, I certainly don't believe all of the stuff put out "The Dude" and most of the stuff written on the WVU Scout Realignment Board.

But....this guy doesn't mention or acknowledge any problems that the ACC may have in that regard or because of the ESPN TV contract.

He also doesn't discuss the issue of Notre Dame's plans for a digital network or how ND's Tier 3 rights would be handled or addressed.

Terry what our Cuse mole is saying:

Appears that the ACC and Notre Dame are holding the line on what was offered by both sides....ACC is not caving into Notre Dame at this point....nor is Notre Dame throwing into the ACC towel as yet. On top of this other conferences are balking at a Notre Dame tie in to the Orange Bowl....it could get very interesting in discussions. I will come back when I have been told something more substantive.

It is odd that they say it is 'open access'. And that you can sign any deals you can negotiate then get upset that ND signed a deal.

If it forces ND to join then I guess that is fine. Makes the ACC look like the good guys for trying to help.

*don't take this to mean I believe any of this

(07-11-2012 10:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Terry what our Cuse mole is saying:

Appears that the ACC and Notre Dame are holding the line on what was offered by both sides....ACC is not caving into Notre Dame at this point....nor is Notre Dame throwing into the ACC towel as yet. On top of this other conferences are balking at a Notre Dame tie in to the Orange Bowl....it could get very interesting in discussions. I will come back when I have been told something more substantive.

So really nothing has changed regarding ACC/ND and realignment. I can understand why they're balking at ND getting an OB bid, this was supposed to a more open system with more at large bids but if ND can sign a deal with the OB why can't conferences sign a second tie in with the Fiesta, Cotton/Sugar, or Chic-fil-a?

This new system seems pretty screwed up to me already.

From what I understand...
-there will be two semi final games with teams 1-4 being seeded resulting in a new championship game to be bid out to cities
-there are three bowls with contract partners. rose pac/big10, orange acc/nd?, champions sec/b12
-some say if the final four takes your bowl you get a spot in another
-some say if you get a team in the final 4 you still get a spot in your contract bowl too

Assuming these thing are true, that leaves us with four open slots in 1-4 (realistically going to the big 5 nearly all the time)
That leaves three bowls that are full (unless ND is conditional on some type of record) so anywhere from 5-6 teams are filled by this
So 9-10 slots are spoken for out of 12. The Big East is saying they are negotiating for a contract spot too. That'd make 10-11 spots spoken for. So you'd have the CUSA, MWC having to make the top 4 or competing with the power conferences for one of the one or two open spots.

Someone correct me if I went wrong somewhere. Seems like the chances of the 'non AQ' getting in the top bowls has gone down.

From the "double secret insider":
Swoff threw the kitchen sink at them with multiple options, and it's no secret that they want to keep their football seperate. The current deal proposal is not for football, but I was told that the deal does have multiple football incentives beyond just a few games. Swoff is trying to make ND's "eventual" full movement a no brainer for them. The biggest deal is that if ND does jump for the more agressive football options, ESPN has agreed to renegotiate and restructure their agreements with the ACC, particularly the points of contention that FSU has with the deal.

I know it not from the "dude" but.....

People like the idea of being able to negotiate separate deals. That is a wonderful thing, in many people's view.

However, they mean it is a good idea for "conferences" to be able to do this.

They just get pissed when it is "Notre Dame" that does it.

Somehow, contractual tie ins of the new bowls by a socialistic grouping of schools is a wonderful idea.

A tie in by a single, solitary school with the power and ability to do the same thing all by themselves.......oh, the horror of it all. THAT suddenly is a very bad thing!

How is it an "open system", as stated above in this thread, when the conference cartel can shut it closed by a contractual tie in?

It is not, that is the real answer. It is the same rigged game.

If if truly is meant to be an "open system", then there should be no conference tie ins to any bowl, not the Rose, the "Champions Bowl, the Orange Bowl....nothing.

We all know that this "open system" is a big joke.

The other schools are apparently just pissed if a single school has the same cartel power as one of the various sub-groups of the cartel.

(07-12-2012 08:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  People like the idea of being able to negotiate separate deals. That is a wonderful thing, in many people's view.

However, they mean it is a good idea for "conferences" to be able to do this.

They just get pissed when it is "Notre Dame" that does it.

Somehow, contractual tie ins of the new bowls by a socialistic grouping of schools is a wonderful idea.

A tie in by a single, solitary school with the power and ability to do the same thing all by themselves.......oh, the horror of it all. THAT suddenly is a very bad thing!

How is it an "open system", as stated above in this thread, when the conference cartel can shut it closed by a contractual tie in?

It is not, that is the real answer. It is the same rigged game.

If if truly is meant to be an "open system", then there should be no conference tie ins to any bowl, not the Rose, the "Champions Bowl, the Orange Bowl....nothing.

We all know that this "open system" is a big joke.

The other schools are apparently just pissed if a single school has the same cartel power as one of the various sub-groups of the cartel.

Agreed. As much as I may not personally like it, ND has earned their right to the same access as the other power brokers. And let's face it, it's the Kings (not the Barons, Knights, and Peasants) that are the reason the 5 power conferences have their "contract" bowls.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-12-2012 07:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  From the "double secret insider":
Swoff threw the kitchen sink at them with multiple options, and it's no secret that they want to keep their football seperate. The current deal proposal is not for football, but I was told that the deal does have multiple football incentives beyond just a few games. Swoff is trying to make ND's "eventual" full movement a no brainer for them. The biggest deal is that if ND does jump for the more agressive football options, ESPN has agreed to renegotiate and restructure their agreements with the ACC, particularly the points of contention that FSU has with the deal.

I know it not from the "dude" but.....

Is that something you came up with or something that you read somewhere?

(07-12-2012 09:28 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 07:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  From the "double secret insider":
Swoff threw the kitchen sink at them with multiple options, and it's no secret that they want to keep their football seperate. The current deal proposal is not for football, but I was told that the deal does have multiple football incentives beyond just a few games. Swoff is trying to make ND's "eventual" full movement a no brainer for them. The biggest deal is that if ND does jump for the more agressive football options, ESPN has agreed to renegotiate and restructure their agreements with the ACC, particularly the points of contention that FSU has with the deal.

I know it not from the "dude" but.....

Is that something you came up with or something that you read somewhere?

Came from a premium Carolina board, pretty reliable source corroborated by an even more reliable source.

I don't think including ND in our bowl package would be a bad thing. I think it'd help us sing with one more high end bowl. This is assuming that ND is willing to accept a 1/15th payment from bowl revenues.