(07-27-2012 10:56 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 01:07 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 12:18 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(07-26-2012 03:13 PM)Ragu Wrote:  I don't get why all of Tobacco Rd can't be together in one division at all. I can see Florida which is one of the best football states and everyone wanting to play a Florida team every year. North Carolina is nothing special in football. It is a basketball state. It surely can't be grouped with Florida, Cali, Texas, Ohio, PA, Georgia, Louisiana etc.

Rivals Top 10 Recruiting States

1.)Texas
2.)Florida
3.)California
4.)Georgia
5.)Ohio
6.)Pennsylvania
7.)Virginia
8.)Alabama
9.)North Carolina
10.)New Jersey

Looks like Louisiana can't be grouped with Florida, Cali, Texas, Ohio, PA, Georgia, North Carolina, etc.

Don't forget Virginia. Rated even higher than N.C.

So Virginia has both teams in the one division and are rated higher on these state rankings. Why is that no problem but grouping the NC schools is a problem?

Most VA recruits are located close to UNC/NCSU/Duke or UMD. So you already cover Virginia recruits by having eastern NC and Maryland.

(07-27-2012 01:45 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  ACC South ------------- ACC North
.Florida State <------> Miami
..Georgia Tech <------> Virginia Tech
.......Clemson <------> Pittsburgh
...Wake Forest <------> Maryland
North Carolina <------> Virginia
......NC State <------> Maryland
..........Duke <------> Syracuse

Key games that remain intact:
- GT vs FSU
- Tech Bowl (GT vs VT)
- Textile Bowl (NCST vs CU)
- NC Round Robin (WF vs UNC vs DU vs NCST)
- Flutie Bowl (UM vs BC)
- South's Oldest Rivalry (UVA vs UNC)
- GT vs CU
- The Artist Formerly Known As Bowden Bowl (FSU vs CU)

Strengths of this alignment:
- Travel (except Miami, but their travel already sucked)
- Traditional rivalries
- Close to balanced in football
- Balanced in basketball
- Far easier for casual fans/media to track divisions

Weaknesses of this alignment:
- Horribly unbalanced in baseball ... the South is murderer's row with 6 of the 7 being ranked teams
- It is too reasonable and obvious for Swofford to ever do on his own

(07-27-2012 10:55 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 12:18 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(07-26-2012 03:13 PM)Ragu Wrote:  I don't get why all of Tobacco Rd can't be together in one division at all. I can see Florida which is one of the best football states and everyone wanting to play a Florida team every year. North Carolina is nothing special in football. It is a basketball state. It surely can't be grouped with Florida, Cali, Texas, Ohio, PA, Georgia, Louisiana etc.

Rivals Top 10 Recruiting States

1.)Texas
2.)Florida
3.)California
4.)Georgia
5.)Ohio
6.)Pennsylvania
7.)Virginia
8.)Alabama
9.)North Carolina
10.)New Jersey

Looks like Louisiana can't be grouped with Florida, Cali, Texas, Ohio, PA, Georgia, North Carolina, etc.

So what year was that for? Betting it is a small window. Louisiana is definitely a better football state than North Carolina. Also 9 on their list compared to 2 is a big difference. I still see no reason that everyone has to play in NC every year. It isn't a big deal.

Article was released July 14, 2011

Quote:Here is a look at the top 10 states that produced BCS signees over the past 10 years.

Quote:North Carolina has been a hotbed for the ACC, and not just the in-state programs. In 2011, the state sent 43 players to that conference. The SEC also has fared well in the Tar Heel State, grabbing seven in the last cycle, including five-star linebacker Kris Frost (Auburn). The state has typically produced one to two five-stars per year.

North Carolina and Florida are still different stratospheres when talking about recruiting. I still don't buy all NC schools in one division being a big detriment. Like I said, Virginia has both in the one division. And I don't buy the excuse on that being fine while NC schools have to be split.

Also this is just listing number of recruits who were BCS signees. Well it helps that NC population is double that of Louisiana. I still say LA is the better overall football state.

North Carolina Population:: 9,656,401

Louisiana Population: 4,574,836

Texas and Florida and Cali of course will have the most because they are the biggest. The difference is they also have good football all over. With these 2 states, I still think LA is better overall. I would like to see how close they were to being on this list.

(07-27-2012 09:50 AM)esayem Wrote:  BC/Wake right?

Affirmative. Woops.

DIVISION A _______________DIVISION B(you guys can come up with names)
North Carolina---------------Syracuse
DUKE----------------------------Miami
NC State-----------------------Clemson
Wake Forest------------------Florida State
Virginia-------------------------Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech-----------------Boston College
Maryland--------------------------Pittsburgh

just throwing out a division alignment if you wanted to put all tobacco road together. Someone who knows the acc rivalries better than me can tell me what rivalries are hurt by this .I think these divisions balance well at least in football and basketball.

What if we had pods (2 X 4 + 2 X 4) and break up the strongest teams (more or less)? We could have pods like this:

and then combine into divisions like this:

years 1 & 2
Pods A+D: BC, 'Cuse, Pitt, Maryland, Wake, FSU, Miami
Pods B+C: UVa, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State, Clemson, GT

years 3 & 4
Pods A+C: BC, 'Cuse, Pitt, Maryland, NC State, Clemson, GT
Pods B+D: UVa, VT, UNC, Duke, Wake, FSU, Miami

cross-over games:
pod A vs. B (2 out of 4)
pod C vs D (2 out of 3)

complete details - LINK.

(07-27-2012 05:00 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  DIVISION A _______________DIVISION B(you guys can come up with names)
North Carolina---------------Syracuse
DUKE----------------------------Miami
NC State-----------------------Clemson
Wake Forest------------------Florida State
Virginia-------------------------Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech-----------------Boston College
Maryland--------------------------Pittsburgh

just throwing out a division alignment if you wanted to put all tobacco road together. Someone who knows the acc rivalries better than me can tell me what rivalries are hurt by this .I think these divisions balance well at least in football and basketball.

That is the 'doughnut and the hole' alignment proposed here a few times before.

I think VT would get Miami as a crossover in that scenario.

(07-27-2012 05:28 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 05:00 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  DIVISION A _______________DIVISION B(you guys can come up with names)
North Carolina---------------Syracuse
DUKE----------------------------Miami
NC State-----------------------Clemson
Wake Forest------------------Florida State
Virginia-------------------------Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech-----------------Boston College
Maryland--------------------------Pittsburgh

just throwing out a division alignment if you wanted to put all tobacco road together. Someone who knows the acc rivalries better than me can tell me what rivalries are hurt by this .I think these divisions balance well at least in football and basketball.

That is the 'doughnut and the hole' alignment proposed here a few times before.

I think VT would get Miami as a crossover in that scenario.

Agreed. VT and Miami would be the cross-over. Otherwise I'm in favor of that allignment. It would allow me to go to more away games.

(07-27-2012 07:43 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 05:28 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-27-2012 05:00 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  DIVISION A _______________DIVISION B(you guys can come up with names)
North Carolina---------------Syracuse
DUKE----------------------------Miami
NC State-----------------------Clemson
Wake Forest------------------Florida State
Virginia-------------------------Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech-----------------Boston College
Maryland--------------------------Pittsburgh

just throwing out a division alignment if you wanted to put all tobacco road together. Someone who knows the acc rivalries better than me can tell me what rivalries are hurt by this .I think these divisions balance well at least in football and basketball.

That is the 'doughnut and the hole' alignment proposed here a few times before.

I think VT would get Miami as a crossover in that scenario.

yea the last spot in the virginia and north carolina division was tough to fill had miami,bc or maryland for that spot
Agreed. VT and Miami would be the cross-over. Otherwise I'm in favor of that allignment. It would allow me to go to more away games.

would boston college(other goes to cuse) be ok with duke or north carolina as there cross over?

(07-27-2012 05:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if we had pods (2 X 4 + 2 X 4) and break up the strongest teams (more or less)? We could have pods like this:

and then combine into divisions like this:

years 1 & 2
Pods A+D: BC, 'Cuse, Pitt, Maryland, Wake, FSU, Miami
Pods B+C: UVa, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State, Clemson, GT

years 3 & 4
Pods A+C: BC, 'Cuse, Pitt, Maryland, NC State, Clemson, GT
Pods B+D: UVa, VT, UNC, Duke, Wake, FSU, Miami

cross-over games:
pod A vs. B (2 out of 4)
pod C vs D (2 out of 3)

complete details - LINK.

id prefer permanent division members vs switching them every few years

UNC
Wake
Duke
NC State
Virginia
Clempson
Maryland

GT
FSU
VT
Da U
BC
SU
Pitt

There you have it. My "unbiased opinion" of the divisions. Btw, you pick the cross rivals I'd take FSU cuz I have an axe to grind.

Just cannot understand the phobia some have to geographic divisions +/- Miami.

Can you name who is who in the Big Ten divisions? Nope. Can you name who is who in the ACC divisions if you're not an ACC fan? Nope. Can you name who is who in the Pac-12 divisions? Yep. Heck, if you know the teams in the MAC you can place them in divisions, too.

Go with geographic divisions in +/- Miami in everything except baseball ... and just have rotations there.

(07-30-2012 12:29 AM)esayem Wrote:  UNC
Wake
Duke
NC State
Virginia
Clempson
Maryland

GT
FSU
VT
Da U
BC
SU
Pitt

There you have it. My "unbiased opinion" of the divisions. Btw, you pick the cross rivals I'd take FSU cuz I have an axe to grind.

Who would have expected to see someone propose the original 7 vs. the expansion 7...? Too unbalanced in football.

The expansion division is leading just 4-2 as far as titles.

(07-30-2012 11:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  The expansion division is leading just 4-2 as far as titles.

But that was with 7 original and only 5 expansion... do you honestly think the original ACC 7 will fare BETTER now that Pitt & Syracuse will be in the mix? If anything, numbers alone tip it even more in favor of the expansionists!

One thing I don't really get is why UVA and VT are against a North/South split. I realize it's because they want to face more southern foes, but with cross division rivals, and 9 conference games, I think that's solved.

BC---------WF
UMD-----NCSU
UM-------FSU
Pitt-------Clemson
SU-------Duke
UVA-----UNC
VT--------GT

That gives them each 2 rotating games through the South division. With five Carolina teams, and them already playing GT cross division, VT is guaranteed a game against one every season.

(07-30-2012 02:15 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  One thing I don't really get is why UVA and VT are against a North/South split. I realize it's because they want to face more southern foes, but with cross division rivals, and 9 conference games, I think that's solved.

BC---------WF
UMD-----NCSU
UM-------FSU
Pitt-------Clemson
SU-------Duke
UVA-----UNC
VT--------GT

That gives them each 2 rotating games through the South division. With five Carolina teams, and them already playing GT cross division, VT is guaranteed a game against one every season.

3 reasons.
1. Perception of being in the "north" won't help recruiting
2. Lack of games in NC won't help fan travel or recruiting
3. Lack of games in the south won't help fan interest or recruiting

(07-30-2012 02:15 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  One thing I don't really get is why UVA and VT are against a North/South split...

(07-30-2012 02:18 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  3 reasons.
1. Perception of being in the "north" won't help recruiting
2. Lack of games in NC won't help fan travel or recruiting
3. Lack of games in the south won't help fan interest or recruiting

Sadly, 4x4 is correct (It's still sad though). Therefore, he's what I'd propose:
1. Whatever you do, DON'T call them North & South.
2. Whatever the final plan, VT must play in the state of NC once per year; likewise there are programs I'm sure who wish to play in the state of FL once per year.
3. Two possible solutions - a) the pod scheduling scheme described above, or b) remove as many cross-over pairs as possible (perhaps keep only FSU-Miami, Clemson-Ga Tech, UNC-NC St and Syracuse-Pitt) thus allowing the other 6 teams to have 3 rotating games (2 as normal but replace the permanent cross-over with a round-robin for the other six teams: Wake, Duke, VT, UVa, Md and BC).

(07-30-2012 02:18 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 02:15 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  One thing I don't really get is why UVA and VT are against a North/South split. I realize it's because they want to face more southern foes, but with cross division rivals, and 9 conference games, I think that's solved.

BC---------WF
UMD-----NCSU
UM-------FSU
Pitt-------Clemson
SU-------Duke
UVA-----UNC
VT--------GT

That gives them each 2 rotating games through the South division. With five Carolina teams, and them already playing GT cross division, VT is guaranteed a game against one every season.

3 reasons.
1. Perception of being in the "north" won't help recruiting
2. Lack of games in NC won't help fan travel or recruiting
3. Lack of games in the south won't help fan interest or recruiting

Right now the ACC has Va Tech's permanent cross over as BC, so with expansion, 2 of your annuals are BC and Pitt. In a North-South setup, therefore, those two wouldn't change. You would pick up Syracuse, though, in lieu of a more southern school in 2 out of 3 years. I would propose giving UMD, UVA and Va Tech first call on crossover opponents in a North-South setup to minimize the impact of losing one southern school annual. UVA would obviously be UNC, and UMD probably NC St. That would give Va Tech choice of FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech Wake, (or even Dook).

(07-30-2012 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  1. Whatever you do, DON'T call them North & South.
2. Whatever the final plan, VT must play in the state of NC once per year; likewise there are programs I'm sure who wish to play in the state of FL once per year.

1. I'm good with that. Keep Atlantic and Coastal. For the love of all that is good though, just don't call them Champions and Legends!

2. With 4 NC schools in the opposite division, Va Tech would be playing in NC two out of every three years even if it did not have a permanent crossover opponent there. I'd suggest Clemson as a permanent crossover, that way you'd have annual exposure to recruits in the Charlotte and Atlanta markets, in addition to SC.