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"IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
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7fielder Offline
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"IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Do you think the current ACC w/ ND for football would command the same TV money the Big10 has?
11-22-2012 01:13 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #2
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Yes. Whether or not it is worth it or not is a different debate entirely but ESPN will absolutely want the ACC to survive at that point. In fact it might even be slightly higher in order to make it clear to the SEC and Big Ten that they need to look elsewhere.
11-22-2012 01:19 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Could be the biggest in the nation if ND would join for everything. They might get a lesser share, but it would give the conference a deal like no other.
11-22-2012 02:33 PM
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7fielder Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Somebody on the Pitt Scout board posted this proposal. It isn't mine but it is maybe the best solution that I have seen yet?

I think everyone can agree that if ND would make a commitment to the ACC football conference, the ACC would be as stable as any conference for years to come. The Notre Dame AD has stated in the past how much of an importance they place on being a player in eastern markets. But they also covet their independence that allows them to play a national schedule. With a little compromise, I think there is an opportunity for for a mutually beneficial for ND to join and stabilize the ACC.

This would entail the ACC going to 16 teams immediately. The critical add would be Navy. The other logical add would be Louisville, in my opinion but feel free to substitute UConn if that floats your boat. At 16 teams, the ACC would need to go to a setup of 4 pods each with 4 teams. One of those pods would consist of ND and traditionally opponents Navy, Pitt and Boston College. I could see the pods playing out something like this:

Pod A-----
ND
Pitt
BC
Navy

Pod B-----
Virginia
VT
Ville
Cuse

Pod C-----
NC
NCSt
Duke
Wake

Pod D-----
GT
Clemson
FSU
Miami

Scheduling in this setup would mean that all teams in each respective pod would play EVERY year keeping important rivalries. Likewise, each year every pod would play every team from some other pod. The "other pod" would be different each year rotating every 3 years. This gives each team 7 conference games. These yearly pod pairings would create 2 divisions and the records for these 7 conference games within each division would determine the conference championship representatives. This is where ND would have to give a little in that they would have to commit to ONE extra ACC conference game. It is only one because they have already agreed to play 5 ACC games and by adding a team that ND is committed to playing EVERY year in Navy, that is now a conference game which brings you to 6 ACC games per year.

-You place ND in a pod with teams that are traditional rivals as to not disrupt their typical schedule. ND plays those teams for a reason and the ACC is letting them to continue that on a regular basis. This is a nice benefit for Pitt, BC and Navy who would all be newcomers to the ACC so it may tick some other schools off but I'd argue that they aren't necessarily any worse off in that they'd get their guaranteed game against ND every 3 years along with the chance to play them in the championship game.

-The ACC could guarantee Notre Dame one of their "away" conference games would be played in New York City. Each ACC team would have to be willing to sacrifice a home game against ND once every so many years. It could be spread apart enough to be insignificant to the ACC team plus the ACC could use this as a "spotlight" type game. Perhaps it is always the first ACC conference game of the season. If the ACC teams aren't in favor of giving up home games, perhaps Pitt, ND and Navy could sacrifice home games to play in NYC. See this article about the potential significance of ND being guaranteed to play a game in NYC every year. http://articles.nydailynews.co...ball-notre-dame

I do think this move by the Big 10 was a direct shot at Notre Dame. But Notre Dame wanting to be an Independent is tied to one thing only. That is their exclusive contract with NBC where they don't have to share with anyone. The only way this changes is when the new Super Conference Model comes around and no special exceptions are made for independents. One could argue that the Big 10 just burned its last bridge with ND with this latest move. There was an interesting proposal today on local talk radio about this 4 pod system previously mentioned on this thread. It goes like this:

1. ND joins as a full time member and is placed in one of the 4 pods.

2. POD A plays POD B two years in a row home and away. The winner of that "division" goes to the championship game.

3. POD C plays POD D two years in a row home and away. The winner of that "division" goes to the championship game.

4. After those two years are up you pair POD A with POD C and POD B with POD D and repeat the process. Essentially you keep the notion of divisional play; but the divisions change every two years to allow teams across the entire league to play each other more often.

5. Here is the big one. You play 7 regular season conference games a year instead of 8 games. That gives ND and everyone else 5 OOC games to schedule as they see fit.

6. Schools would be allowed to schedule ACC teams from outside their current "division" as an out of conference game. That way old rivalries can be preserved when schools like NC State and UNC are not in the same "division" for a two year span.

#6 is important because it will allow you to setup PODs how ever you feel like. The schools can preserve the rivalries if they so chose when their PODs are not paired together.

I thought this was nuts at first. But the POD system does at least allow you the opportunity to play everyone in league twice over a four year span. That is much better than the current divisional setup we have now.

Still having trouble with just 7 regular season games as this radio host proposed. But it is thinking outside of the box .

ND would have Pitt, Navy and BC on their schedule yearly which all three are traditional opponents for ND. And then they would still have 5 (USC, Purdue, Stanford, Michigan State and one other game) non-conference games to schedule. That gives them at least 7 opponents the same as they played this year. The other teams from this year's schedule that would be lost are Michigan (pretty traditional rival), Oklahoma, BYU, Wake Forest (ACC) and Miami (ACC) of which the last four are non-traditional rivals. You can scratch Wake Forest and Miami because Notre Dame would be playing 7 games against the ACC. That leaves one spot per year to play a non-traditional opponent like Oklahoma, BYU or to add Michigan back in if they desire. Also, you may find that the Big 10 schools start to pull away from ND and perhaps drop them from their schedule. It seems to me the Big 10 as a whole is upset with the ND/ACC tie-in. I would not be surprised to see the schools reach an "agreement" not to schedule ND any longer.

Overall it sounds like a pretty good way to at least start communications and compromises. Seems like it would definitely stabilize the league and I imagine at the same time the ACC (now fully with ND) could go back to ESPN and ask for more money.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 02:53 PM by 7fielder.)
11-22-2012 02:51 PM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #5
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
i doubt N.dame would come all in, a more likely scenario is for them to drop purdue & replace them with B college & play 5 other ACC teams a year. then the acc could add uconn,louisville & cincinnati to get to 16. if you really want to get outside the box you could also add marquette(milwaukee)georgetown(dc)&villanova(philly). as bball only members.split the basketball teams into 4 five team divisions & play 8 games against the rest. top 16 make the tournament with the 4 divsion winners getting a 1st round buy.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 03:20 PM by mj4life.)
11-22-2012 03:14 PM
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OrangeCrush22 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
That would be awesome, 7fielder. Thanks for sharing! And special shout-out to the person we came up with the idea!

If pods were set up like that, then I think Louisville gets in over Connecticut. I think that's who Virginia and especially Virginia Tech would like to play every year.
11-22-2012 03:16 PM
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7fielder Offline
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Post: #7
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
I this situation to make it worth while for the Irish they would have to be able to keep their NBC TV contract for home games, however, it should up the ESPN contract significantly which should make the Clemson's and FSU's of the world happy. Sure ND would be getting more from their NBC contact but we would all still be getting more cash so really it would be no different than Bevo and the Big12 where Clamson and FSU was thinking about going for more money, so if they can significantly increase TV revenue by staying in the ACC and have GT and Miami in their POD then they shouldn't have any problem with this?
11-22-2012 03:50 PM
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JustAnotherName Offline
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Post: #8
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 01:13 PM)7fielder Wrote:  Do you think the current ACC w/ ND for football would command the same TV money the Big10 has?

Hell no.
11-22-2012 08:30 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 08:30 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  
(11-22-2012 01:13 PM)7fielder Wrote:  Do you think the current ACC w/ ND for football would command the same TV money the Big10 has?

Hell no.

If you pulled ND & PSU, it could be close to the B1Gs deal.... But those chances are, slim/nill.
11-22-2012 08:36 PM
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Chris02M Offline
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Post: #10
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
i think they could get what espn is paying the big ten but not with btn money
11-22-2012 08:50 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #11
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Don't waste your time holding your breathe in that one. ND could have single handedly prevented the big east from collapsing around them had they done that and refused to do so. They will not join a conference to help it. They will only do so if it helps them.
11-22-2012 08:51 PM
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Post: #12
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 08:36 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  
(11-22-2012 08:30 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  
(11-22-2012 01:13 PM)7fielder Wrote:  Do you think the current ACC w/ ND for football would command the same TV money the Big10 has?

Hell no.

If you pulled ND & PSU, it could be close to the B1Gs deal.... But those chances are, slim/nill.
11-22-2012 09:05 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #13
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 08:51 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Don't waste your time holding your breathe in that one. ND could have single handedly prevented the big east from collapsing around them had they done that and refused to do so. They will not join a conference to help it. They will only do so if it helps them.



I really don't understand this line of thinking, at all.

Why would anyone do something that will not be in their best interests, in order to help a conference that is faltering and cannot maintain itself?

Why should ND do something that helps a conference but diminishes it or does not help itself?

It is perfectly fine for every other school to abandon its long time home and switch conferences to further its self interest. But, it is somehow "wrong" for ND to not join a conference in furtherance of its self interest???? Crazy.

Realignment is all about self interest, for everyone. But, it is "bad" for ND to do so because it views its self interest as best being served by not being in a football conference.

People keep suggesting that ND "save" a conference by giving up its preferred status/position or doing something that it is totally against.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 11:33 PM by TerryD.)
11-22-2012 11:29 PM
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7fielder Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Terry D... then why did Jack Swarbrick damn Pitt and Cuse so badly when they left the Big East? He was VERY negative about how traitorous our two schools were...
11-22-2012 11:35 PM
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TerryD Online
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 11:35 PM)7fielder Wrote:  Terry D... then why did Jack Swarbrick damn Pitt and Cuse so badly when they left the Big East? He was VERY negative about how traitorous our two schools were...

I have no idea. I certainly understood why they bailed on the Big East.

I think that he should have kept his mouth shut.
11-22-2012 11:41 PM
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ndlutz Offline
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Post: #16
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 11:35 PM)7fielder Wrote:  Terry D... then why did Jack Swarbrick damn Pitt and Cuse so badly when they left the Big East? He was VERY negative about how traitorous our two schools were...

Yeah, it's cool for ND to act in their own self interest but it's not cool for Syracuse and Pitt to do the same.

I'm sure Swarbrick wishes he didn't let that arrogant bit of truth slip out.
11-22-2012 11:46 PM
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Post: #17
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
Notre dame will not join a conference until three things happen.
1) NBC declines to give Notre Dame a TV contract that pays the equivalent of a BCS conference for football.

2) The BCS bowls (for lack of a better term) fail to provid a path for Notre Dame unless they are in a conference.

3) There is no conference willing to accept Notre Dame for all sports minus football.

Without these three conditions being meet there is no inducement for Notre Dame to join a conference. If you are an ACC fan and think that Notre Dame will be coerced into joining the conference to save it at the expense of only being able to play three or four of their annual games (USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan, Perdue, MSU) you can just forget it.
11-23-2012 12:30 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-22-2012 11:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-22-2012 08:51 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Don't waste your time holding your breathe in that one. ND could have single handedly prevented the big east from collapsing around them had they done that and refused to do so. They will not join a conference to help it. They will only do so if it helps them.



I really don't understand this line of thinking, at all.

Why would anyone do something that will not be in their best interests, in order to help a conference that is faltering and cannot maintain itself?

Why should ND do something that helps a conference but diminishes it or does not help itself?

It is perfectly fine for every other school to abandon its long time home and switch conferences to further its self interest. But, it is somehow "wrong" for ND to not join a conference in furtherance of its self interest???? Crazy.

Realignment is all about self interest, for everyone. But, it is "bad" for ND to do so because it views its self interest as best being served by not being in a football conference.

People keep suggesting that ND "save" a conference by giving up its preferred status/position or doing something that it is totally against.

I don't necessarily fault ND for this, but it is a fallacy to say that everyone looks out for themselves first and foremost without regard to their associates: not everyone in a position of power completely looks out for themselves in lieu of helping their conference mates. Case in point the big ten, PAC 12, and even sec, who do sacrifice for themselves for the better good. They do so a lot actually, and are a prime difference between say Ohio at, Michigan, and USC and say Texas.
That said, this thread is a suggestion that Notre dame sacrifice a little of themselves to help the teams that help them ( the teams they are partial members with, be it the big east or ACC, do indeed help out Notre dame whether they want to admit it or not) is asking Notre dame to do something they have shown. They will never do.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2012 12:11 PM by adcorbett.)
11-23-2012 03:45 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
(11-23-2012 12:30 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  Notre dame will not join a conference until three things happen.
1) NBC declines to give Notre Dame a TV contract that pays the equivalent of a BCS conference for football.

2) The BCS bowls (for lack of a better term) fail to provid a path for Notre Dame unless they are in a conference.

3) There is no conference willing to accept Notre Dame for all sports minus football.

Without these three conditions being meet there is no inducement for Notre Dame to join a conference. If you are an ACC fan and think that Notre Dame will be coerced into joining the conference to save it at the expense of only being able to play three or four of their annual games (USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan, Perdue, MSU) you can just forget it.

Notre Dame is already dropping it's rivalry with Michigan. It hasn't been a nice history between the two. The rivalries with MSU and Purdue are about respecting the two institutions for being friendly while other Big Ten institutions havn't been so friendly. Now that the Big Ten has obviously made a move to counteract Notre Dame's move, I wouldn't be surprised if that is used in the future as an excuse to pull away from the MSU and Purdue games.

That leaves only USC, Stanford and Navy. If they get Navy in the ACC as a football only then all they have OOCly to maintain is USC and Stanford. That is 2 of 3 OOC games and then the final one is the one they can rotate with whom they would like future relations with. Texas? Oklahoma? The occassional game against MSU or Purdue? They will get by.
11-23-2012 03:49 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #20
RE: "IF" ND were to join the ACC as a full memeber...
The big difference is that Texas, Ohio State, USC, Alabama, et al are not independent and have their own TV contract.

They are already stuck in conferences and have to make the best of it to make it work.

Apples and Oranges, not the same thing at all.

The benefit of basketball, baseball, et al is not great enough to negatively impact football by joining a conference
11-23-2012 03:59 PM
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