(12-18-2012 07:48 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Any team with Boise has had a guaranteed loss.

I guess SDSU didn't get that memo

(12-18-2012 09:03 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 07:48 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Any team with Boise has had a guaranteed loss.

I guess SDSU didn't get that memo

Grats you were one of their what, 6 losses in 10 years?

ummmm ECU is 1-0 vs Boise. In case some people forget the history it was 2007 and Chris Johnson was a Senior, we had a winning season that year and ended up in the Hawaii Bowl. ESPN did a poll and 98% of america believed Boise would win, the 2% won.

(12-18-2012 09:25 PM)pirateadam Wrote:  ummmm ECU is 1-0 vs Boise. In case some people forget the history it was 2007 and Chris Johnson was a Senior, we had a winning season that year and ended up in the Hawaii Bowl. ESPN did a poll and 98% of america believed Boise would win, the 2% won.

How could we forget, we've only heard it 100 times from every ECU fan on here.

(12-18-2012 09:12 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:03 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 07:48 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Any team with Boise has had a guaranteed loss.

I guess SDSU didn't get that memo

Grats you were one of their what, 6 losses in 10 years?

This new conference wont be the WAC Boise was accustomed to. I'm not saying they can't win they way they have been, it's just that upsets like SDSU this year are going to be more prevalent for them going forward.

(12-18-2012 06:24 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  Let's attack the problem this way . . . why in the last 10-15 years have these schools not already achieved the on-the-field and/or in-the-stands successes of say a UConn, Cincinnati, Boise State, South Florida, ECU . . .? What has held them back? And why is there any reason to believe with a only a $4-5 million payday (as opposed to a $10-15 million payday) from a Big East invitation that something dramatic will change in their on-the-field and/or in-the-stands performances . . .

WESTERN CANDIDATES:
* Fresno State
* UNLV
* New Mexico
* Utah State
* Nevada
* Colorado State
* San Jose State

I'm not sure what your point is but a couple of things that might add some context to your info about Fresno State.

1. Although I think it is on the rebound, attendance is down from a decade ago. Our average was 39,000 to 41,000+ and there was talk of stadium expansion. Two principal reasons for the decrease: First, the team tanked under Pat Hill over the past five or six years. Second, the economy in the San Joaquin Valley has been hit harder than almost anywhere. Unemployment is (I believe) still over 10% and the repossession rate in about three counties is still in the top 10.

2. Fresno has played in no BCS bowl games while some of the schools you mention have. However, the road to the BCS is entirely different for the non-AQs than it is for the AQs. There have been Fresno State teams that played in the Toilet Bowl but that would have defeated AQ schools who played in BCS bowls.

Aside from a difference in access is a difference in access to recruits. Recruiting to an AQ school is a hell of a lot easier than is recruiting to a non-AQ. The differences in access to recruits and BCS bowls are so great that any comparison between AQ and Non-AQ schools is wholly meaningless and entirely misleading.

3. Fresno has played in a bowl game, something like 12 of the last 14 years. We have wins over Cincinnati (on your list), Wisconsin, Rutgers, Virginia. In fact, I can't think of an eastern team that we played and lost to -- although I'm not sure where east starts. We are 1-1 against Cincy. Of course we don't play eastern schools very often.

I believe that we are still have more wins against AQ schools than does any other non AQ (since 2000); although we might have lost that title the past few years. More than that, we've lost a lot of games by a little -- We're 2-7 against Oregon with four of those losses being by 4 points or less. And then there was the game where we took #1 USC to the wire.

I'm not entirely sure what your point was but do not ever lump us in with San Jose State, UNLV, et al. We are every bit the program of UConn, Cincinnati, Boise State, South Florida and ECU. Okay, not Boise -- but everyone else on your list.

Yoda out...

Insofar as tulane is concerned, it is well positioned to grow quickly. Historically, success hasn't been there mostly because of Tulane policies/philosophy as an institution.

It sits in the most fruitful recruiting area in a very fruitful state. Louisiana is the only state in the top 10 in recruit production that doesn't have at least 2 'power teams'. More than 70% of last years's class and this one is from the New Orleans/River Parish area (which produces recruits at twice the rate the rest of the state). From 2008-2010, however, that number is in the 20s or lower. I assume it is similar for most of the years preceding that period but I haven't looked it up.

I played at tulane in 98. We had a staff that we believed in, and most of the roster was from La with some key guys from south Florida. It makes too much sense not to build that way. It has done so in every succesful period.

In addition to the stadium and donors activating and all of that, there are key things being done to break down institutional barriers. It looks real.

There's no reason with its advantages that Tulane can't be a productive member of this conference. Time will tell.

(12-18-2012 09:25 PM)pirateadam Wrote:  ummmm ECU is 1-0 vs Boise. In case some people forget the history it was 2007 and Chris Johnson was a Senior, we had a winning season that year and ended up in the Hawaii Bowl. ESPN did a poll and 98% of america believed Boise would win, the 2% won.

I really wish people would stop bringing this up every other day. It was a good win, but bragging about being 1-0 over a team is pretty lame, especially when there are much better records to brag about like our 12-5 advantage over Cincy, 9-3 over UCF, 8-3 over Temple, 15-6 over Memphis, or 7-5 over Houston.

(12-18-2012 10:27 PM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 06:24 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  Let's attack the problem this way . . . why in the last 10-15 years have these schools not already achieved the on-the-field and/or in-the-stands successes of say a UConn, Cincinnati, Boise State, South Florida, ECU . . .? What has held them back? And why is there any reason to believe with a only a $4-5 million payday (as opposed to a $10-15 million payday) from a Big East invitation that something dramatic will change in their on-the-field and/or in-the-stands performances . . .

WESTERN CANDIDATES:
* Fresno State
* UNLV
* New Mexico
* Utah State
* Nevada
* Colorado State
* San Jose State

I'm not sure what your point is but a couple of things that might add some context to your info about Fresno State.

1. Although I think it is on the rebound, attendance is down from a decade ago. Our average was 39,000 to 41,000+ and there was talk of stadium expansion. Two principal reasons for the decrease: First, the team tanked under Pat Hill over the past five or six years. Second, the economy in the San Joaquin Valley has been hit harder than almost anywhere. Unemployment is (I believe) still over 10% and the repossession rate in about three counties is still in the top 10.

2. Fresno has played in no BCS bowl games while some of the schools you mention have. However, the road to the BCS is entirely different for the non-AQs than it is for the AQs. There have been Fresno State teams that played in the Toilet Bowl but that would have defeated AQ schools who played in BCS bowls.

Aside from a difference in access is a difference in access to recruits. Recruiting to an AQ school is a hell of a lot easier than is recruiting to a non-AQ. The differences in access to recruits and BCS bowls are so great that any comparison between AQ and Non-AQ schools is wholly meaningless and entirely misleading.

3. Fresno has played in a bowl game, something like 12 of the last 14 years. We have wins over Cincinnati (on your list), Wisconsin, Rutgers, Virginia. In fact, I can't think of an eastern team that we played and lost to -- although I'm not sure where east starts. We are 1-1 against Cincy. Of course we don't play eastern schools very often.

I believe that we are still have more wins against AQ schools than does any other non AQ (since 2000); although we might have lost that title the past few years. More than that, we've lost a lot of games by a little -- We're 2-7 against Oregon with four of those losses being by 4 points or less. And then there was the game where we took #1 USC to the wire.

I'm not entirely sure what your point was but do not ever lump us in with San Jose State, UNLV, et al. We are every bit the program of UConn, Cincinnati, Boise State, South Florida and ECU. Okay, not Boise -- but everyone else on your list.

Yoda out...

So the arguments for Fresno are . . .

* had not won a conference championship in 13 years until this year when it finished in a 3-way tie for first but was still unranked again;
* has lost 4 of its last 5 (toilet) bowl games - all against non-AQ teams, including a 40-17 blowout by Northern Illinois in 2010 (your win was over a 7-6 Georgia Tech teams in 2007, but you're arguing that they should have been playing in BCS bowls . . . seriously?);
* can't recruit athletes to win bowl games or finished nationally ranked because Fresno State is in a non-AQ conference, but it will still be in a non-AQ conference when it joins the Big East; and
* it is located in one of the most economically depressed areas of the country so the chance for increases in attendance over the current 30,000 is doubtful for the foreseeable future . . .

In roughly the same time period, Boise State has played in two BCS Bowl Games, winning both, and got screwed on another, and has finished ranked in the Top 25 time 8 times of the last 10 years . . . ECU averages 50,000-plus in the stands playing in Conference USA . . . and Cincinnati is universally considered the best football program outside the Power 5 Conference . . .

You've made a compelling case . . . Fresno it is!

(12-18-2012 11:02 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  So the arguments for Fresno are . . .

* had not won a conference championship in 13 years until this year when it finished in a 3-way tie for first but was still unranked again;
* has lost 4 of its last 5 (toilet) bowl games - all against non-AQ teams, including a 40-17 blowout by Northern Illinois in 2010 (your win was over a 7-6 Georgia Tech teams in 2007, but you're arguing that they should have been playing in BCS bowls . . . seriously?);
* can't recruit athletes to win bowl games or finished nationally ranked because Fresno State is in a non-AQ conference, but it will still be in a non-AQ conference when it joins the Big East; and
* it is located in one of the most economically depressed areas of the country so the chance for increases in attendance over the current 30,000 is doubtful for the foreseeable future . . .

In roughly the same time period, Boise State has played in two BCS Bowl Games, winning both, and got screwed on another, and has finished ranked in the Top 25 time 8 years of the last 10 years . . . ECU averages 50,000-plus in the stands playing in Conference USA . . . and Cincinnati is universally considered the best football team outside the Power 5 Conference . . .

You've made a compelling case . . . Fresno it is!

I wasn't making an argument for including Fresno in anything. You asked why we hadn't had Greater On-Field And/Or In-The-Stands Success" and I was making the point that we have had more success than you apparently realize. We're not San Jose State or UNLV.

Inexplicably, you responded in troll. Have a nice day.

Yoda out...

(12-19-2012 12:03 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:02 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  So the arguments for Fresno are . . .

* had not won a conference championship in 13 years until this year when it finished in a 3-way tie for first but was still unranked again;
* has lost 4 of its last 5 (toilet) bowl games - all against non-AQ teams, including a 40-17 blowout by Northern Illinois in 2010 (your win was over a 7-6 Georgia Tech teams in 2007, but you're arguing that they should have been playing in BCS bowls . . . seriously?);
* can't recruit athletes to win bowl games or finished nationally ranked because Fresno State is in a non-AQ conference, but it will still be in a non-AQ conference when it joins the Big East; and
* it is located in one of the most economically depressed areas of the country so the chance for increases in attendance over the current 30,000 is doubtful for the foreseeable future . . .

In roughly the same time period, Boise State has played in two BCS Bowl Games, winning both, and got screwed on another, and has finished ranked in the Top 25 time 8 years of the last 10 years . . . ECU averages 50,000-plus in the stands playing in Conference USA . . . and Cincinnati is universally considered the best football team outside the Power 5 Conference . . .

You've made a compelling case . . . Fresno it is!

I wasn't making an argument for including Fresno in anything. I was adding some context and you responded in troll. Have a nice day.

Yoda out...

Yoda, you are up to your old list of excuse and blame, whiny BS. The reason Fresno is what Fresno is, is because of a lousy head coach which squandered Fresno's potential and guys like you satisfied with the sickening mediocrity. Boise did more with less and that is the bottom line.

(12-19-2012 12:18 AM)Fangdog Wrote:  Yoda, you are up to your old list of excuse and blame, whiny BS. The reason Fresno is what Fresno is, is because of a lousy head coach which squandered Fresno's potential and guys like you satisfied with the sickening mediocrity. Boise did more with less and that is the bottom line.

Oh good. My stalker is back. Any chance you could learn to like girls?

Yoda out...

(12-18-2012 09:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:25 PM)pirateadam Wrote:  ummmm ECU is 1-0 vs Boise. In case some people forget the history it was 2007 and Chris Johnson was a Senior, we had a winning season that year and ended up in the Hawaii Bowl. ESPN did a poll and 98% of america believed Boise would win, the 2% won.

How could we forget, we've only heard it 100 times from every ECU fan on here.

So true. I'm completely sick of it. The sad thing is I believe we've got some fans out there that think we're the superior program b/c of that one win.

(12-19-2012 12:22 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 12:18 AM)Fangdog Wrote:  Yoda, you are up to your old list of excuse and blame, whiny BS. The reason Fresno is what Fresno is, is because of a lousy head coach which squandered Fresno's potential and guys like you satisfied with the sickening mediocrity. Boise did more with less and that is the bottom line.

Oh good. My stalker is back. Any chance you could learn to like girls?

Yoda out...

You give yourself way, way too much importance. I care less about stalking you. Although you do remind me of having the immature mind of a 14-year old girl

(12-19-2012 12:34 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:25 PM)pirateadam Wrote:  ummmm ECU is 1-0 vs Boise. In case some people forget the history it was 2007 and Chris Johnson was a Senior, we had a winning season that year and ended up in the Hawaii Bowl. ESPN did a poll and 98% of america believed Boise would win, the 2% won.

How could we forget, we've only heard it 100 times from every ECU fan on here.

So true. I'm completely sick of it. The sad thing is I believe we've got some fans out there that think we're the superior program b/c of that one win.

Not me. Boise State speaks for itself. I usually end that story with "but we had Chris Johnson".

(12-19-2012 12:03 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:02 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  So the arguments for Fresno are . . .

* had not won a conference championship in 13 years until this year when it finished in a 3-way tie for first but was still unranked again;
* has lost 4 of its last 5 (toilet) bowl games - all against non-AQ teams, including a 40-17 blowout by Northern Illinois in 2010 (your win was over a 7-6 Georgia Tech teams in 2007, but you're arguing that they should have been playing in BCS bowls . . . seriously?);
* can't recruit athletes to win bowl games or finished nationally ranked because Fresno State is in a non-AQ conference, but it will still be in a non-AQ conference when it joins the Big East; and
* it is located in one of the most economically depressed areas of the country so the chance for increases in attendance over the current 30,000 is doubtful for the foreseeable future . . .

In roughly the same time period, Boise State has played in two BCS Bowl Games, winning both, and got screwed on another, and has finished ranked in the Top 25 time 8 years of the last 10 years . . . ECU averages 50,000-plus in the stands playing in Conference USA . . . and Cincinnati is universally considered the best football team outside the Power 5 Conference . . .

You've made a compelling case . . . Fresno it is!

I wasn't making an argument for including Fresno in anything. You asked why we hadn't had Greater On-Field And/Or In-The-Stands Success" and I was making the point that we have had more success than you apparently realize. We're not San Jose State or UNLV.

Inexplicably, you responded in troll. Have a nice day.

Yoda out...

Right . . . you put up a few opinions that you thought I would just accept at face value, so when I use a handful of sentences to reduce Fresno State to a punchline . . . you call me a troll . . . how about a little intellectual honesty by you instead . . .

You have touted Fresno and the others ad nauseum for weeks. . . I love how you presume that I simply must not "realize" Fresno State's athletic history. . . in fact, I and others who reject your opinions about the MWC choices have spent hours researching everything we have been provided and can find on the internet because we are fanatical about understanding the keys to the Big East's long-term success . . .

Being new, I and others do not bring old prejudices and preconceived notions about who the "right" choice might be to join Boise State and SDSU in a "western conference". . . so when I ask the question why Fresno State and the others haven't achieved the successes of Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, and ECU and get almost no serious responses, I am left asking why? . . .

My conclusion? The MWC folks here know that Fresno, UNLV, New Mexico, Utah State, Nevada, etc. are merely sentimental choices and can not withstand scrutiny for the objective criteria that will determine who the next add will be . . .it's easier to just keep repeating those names in threads and publicly calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot or a troll . . .

And for that reason, and in light of the backlash from the Tulane add, I'm concerned that Aresco & Co. will make a "popular" addition instead of the "right" one just to appease folks like you . . .

Oh and because you seem to have mis-remembered those big bowl wins over "eastern opponents," here you go: two wins over mediocre 7-6 Georgia Tech teams (2002, 2007) and a win over a 8-4 Virginia team (2004) . . . you lost to a 7-5 Michigan State (2001), and an 11-1 Bowling Green (1991) . . Fresno is 5-9 in all third-tier bowl games against pretty unimpressive list of opponents during the last two decades . . . just a few more "facts" about why Fresno is not even close to being the same as UConn, Cincinnati, ECU, or Boise State . . . the idea you think it is . . . well, is surprising. . .

Cougar out . . .

(12-19-2012 01:16 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  And for that reason, and in light of the backlash from the Tulane add, I'm concerned that Aresco & Co. will make a "popular" addition instead of the "right" one just to appease folks like you . . .

Cougar out . . .

I think the Tulane add indicates that Aresco isn't using any of the same metrics we are, and wouldn't give a flying #$%^ what we think. Attendance, fanbase, athletic success, stadium size are unimportant. top 10 or 20 or 30 market is no longer a requirement.

If we want to guess the next move, we have to figure out who out west has anything like Tulane's awesomeness. But Tulane has all the awesomeness, so I'm not sure there's any more left.

And since the ACC-raid-is-coming-the-sky-is-falling move was to get Tulane all-sports instead of settle for Fresno State football-only, I highly suspect "western partner" is Aresco-speak for "still trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat with BYU or Air Force."

I never said we had the superior program to Boise. The only reason I mentioned it was because of the Tulane fan that insinuated that anyone that plays Boise would lose. Im proud of that win and it set us up for the next two championship years. Im sure as we begin to play a natural rivalry will develop between ECU and Boise that will be fun for both schools. Thats what im looking forward to the most is seeing fresh teams and programs visit Dowdy Ficklen Stadium.

(12-19-2012 01:40 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  . . .
I think the Tulane add indicates that Aresco isn't using any of the same metrics we are, and wouldn't give a flying #$%^ what we think. Attendance, fanbase, athletic success, stadium size are unimportant. top 10 or 20 or 30 market is no longer a requirement. . .

This is where we disagree . . . I believe Tulane possesses a strong future to be in the top half of the Big East in all of these metrics:

* Attendance (25,000), fanbase (NOLA will support it);
* Athletic success (chicken at the egg; but I think this is a product of spending money on coaching, facilities, recruiting, schedule, etc.);
* Stadium size (30,000 new facility will be fine for the next 5-10 years; it will be expanded regularly if the conference is stable, successful, etc.)

(12-19-2012 01:16 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 12:03 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:02 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  So the arguments for Fresno are . . .

* had not won a conference championship in 13 years until this year when it finished in a 3-way tie for first but was still unranked again;
* has lost 4 of its last 5 (toilet) bowl games - all against non-AQ teams, including a 40-17 blowout by Northern Illinois in 2010 (your win was over a 7-6 Georgia Tech teams in 2007, but you're arguing that they should have been playing in BCS bowls . . . seriously?);
* can't recruit athletes to win bowl games or finished nationally ranked because Fresno State is in a non-AQ conference, but it will still be in a non-AQ conference when it joins the Big East; and
* it is located in one of the most economically depressed areas of the country so the chance for increases in attendance over the current 30,000 is doubtful for the foreseeable future . . .

In roughly the same time period, Boise State has played in two BCS Bowl Games, winning both, and got screwed on another, and has finished ranked in the Top 25 time 8 years of the last 10 years . . . ECU averages 50,000-plus in the stands playing in Conference USA . . . and Cincinnati is universally considered the best football team outside the Power 5 Conference . . .

You've made a compelling case . . . Fresno it is!

I wasn't making an argument for including Fresno in anything. You asked why we hadn't had Greater On-Field And/Or In-The-Stands Success" and I was making the point that we have had more success than you apparently realize. We're not San Jose State or UNLV.

Inexplicably, you responded in troll. Have a nice day.

Yoda out...

Right . . . you put up a few opinions that you thought I would just accept at face value, so when I use a handful of sentences to reduce Fresno State to a punchline . . . you call me a troll . . . how about a little intellectual honesty by you instead . . .

You have touted Fresno and the others ad nauseum for weeks. . . I love how you presume that I simply must not "realize" Fresno State's athletic history. . . in fact, I and others who reject your opinions about the MWC choices have spent hours researching everything we have been provided and can find on the internet because we are fanatical about understanding the keys to the Big East's long-term success . . .

Being new, I and others do not bring old prejudices and preconceived notions about who the "right" choice might be to join Boise State and SDSU in a "western conference". . . so when I ask the question why Fresno State and the others haven't achieved the successes of Boise State, Cincinnati, UConn, and ECU and get almost no serious responses, I am left asking why? . . .

My conclusion? The MWC folks here know that Fresno, UNLV, New Mexico, Utah State, Nevada, etc. are merely sentimental choices and can not withstand scrutiny for the objective criteria that will determine who the next add will be . . .it's easier to just keep repeating those names in threads and publicly calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot or a troll . . .

And for that reason, and in light of the backlash from the Tulane add, I'm concerned that Aresco & Co. will make a "popular" addition instead of the "right" one just to appease folks like you . . .

Oh and because you seem to have mis-remembered those big bowl wins over "eastern opponents," here you go: two wins over mediocre 7-6 Georgia Tech teams (2002, 2007) and a win over a 8-4 Virginia team (2004) . . . you lost to a 7-5 Michigan State (2001), and an 11-1 Bowling Green (1991) . . Fresno is 5-9 in all third-tier bowl games against pretty unimpressive list of opponents during the last two decades . . . just a few more "facts" about why Fresno is not even close to being the same as UConn, Cincinnati, ECU, or Boise State . . . the idea you think it is . . . well, is surprising. . .

Cougar out . . .

FFS Quit talking about Utah State or Nevada. NOBODY is propping them up.

You talk about Fresno's bowl history, while at the same time advocating for UTSA, Tulane, ECU, etc...

Christ, your trolling skills are epic. Do you realize how much of a buffoon you come off as on here?