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C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
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lollaperuna Offline
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C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
12-19-2012 09:17 AM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
Also, water is wet.
12-19-2012 09:19 AM
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TigerTimmy Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
It can be a good basketball conference but without football money it will become one step above the A10.
12-19-2012 09:34 AM
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Halfcourt Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.
12-19-2012 09:41 AM
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Mestophalies Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You open up your facilities for Bingo nights and Scrabble Tournaments. 02-13-banana
12-19-2012 09:48 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You say this like Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia football ever did anything to market Georgetown and Villanova and UConn basketball. The C-7 schools are already accustomed to being one-revenue-sport schools. If anything, we won't have to dispel the lingering cloud of negativity from people trashing the conference for sucking in football. (Perception, not reality, save it.)
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2012 09:51 AM by johnbragg.)
12-19-2012 09:50 AM
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Rich52c Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You say this like Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia football ever did anything to market Georgetown and Villanova and UConn basketball. The C-7 schools are already accustomed to being one-revenue-sport schools. If anything, we won't have to dispel the lingering cloud of negativity from people trashing the conference for sucking in football. (Perception, not reality, save it.)

just an upgrade a10.
12-19-2012 09:59 AM
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Halfcourt Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You say this like Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia football ever did anything to market Georgetown and Villanova and UConn basketball. The C-7 schools are already accustomed to being one-revenue-sport schools. If anything, we won't have to dispel the lingering cloud of negativity from people trashing the conference for sucking in football. (Perception, not reality, save it.)

Yes they did. They represented the BE brand in the dormant period for basketball schools. Being associated with football schools with large athletic budgets, large fan bases, and enrollments was a positive for the BE basketball onlys.
12-19-2012 10:10 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:10 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You say this like Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia football ever did anything to market Georgetown and Villanova and UConn basketball. The C-7 schools are already accustomed to being one-revenue-sport schools. If anything, we won't have to dispel the lingering cloud of negativity from people trashing the conference for sucking in football. (Perception, not reality, save it.)

Yes they did. They represented the BE brand in the dormant period for basketball schools. Being associated with football schools with large athletic budgets, large fan bases, and enrollments was a positive for the BE basketball onlys.

How???? BE FB wasn't even mentioned during FB season on ESPN and the few times it was mentioned they were poking fun and down right insulting it. How is that helping us? Seriously?

St. Louis was associated with FB schools and where did that get them? They had more success NOT being associated with FB schools.
12-19-2012 10:30 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:41 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  I think it will be a good basketball conference as well. They will now experience the challenges that come with being a 1 revenue sport conference. How do you market yourself in the dormant period form April to Oct. It will be interesting to watch and observe.

You say this like Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia football ever did anything to market Georgetown and Villanova and UConn basketball. The C-7 schools are already accustomed to being one-revenue-sport schools. If anything, we won't have to dispel the lingering cloud of negativity from people trashing the conference for sucking in football. (Perception, not reality, save it.)

Yes, there's two sides to that coin. It was one thing to have Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, etc. to be out there to keep the Big East brand out there during the fall, but even then it didn't exactly have a great media perception. If anything, the C-7 wants to get *away* from the media perception of the New New Big East football league - they don't want to be associated with what they see as a tarnished brand (whether you believe that's fair or not).

Look at the national media articles over the past week. They have generally been very positive in favor of the C-7 split, whereas we know that the media hasn't been kind to how the Big East football league looks at all (as evidenced by the preponderance of threads on this board that trash articles from ESPN, CBS, and whoever else might be complaining that day). The media people that live disproportionately in NYC, DC, Chicago and Philly *like* the thought of the C-7 splitting off and creating their own branding and that's being reflected. This league is going to have a really strong media perception right off the bat and that's honestly half the battle. Having the media people in your corner from the get go is way easier than trying to have a commissioner or PR person out there trying to recite stats that those media people don't really care about.

The comparisons to the A-10 are complete hogwash and simply denial by those that are objecting to the C-7 actions. It's as if we're in a bizarro world. When looking at the media metrics, the C-7 is likely going to end up with a better TV contract than what the people on this board generally think, while the remnants of the Big East are likely going to end up with a worse TV contract than what the people on this board generally think. That's not because people here are irrational, but they're inherently going to be biased in overstating the prospects of what's good for their school and understating the prospects of what they believe would be bad for their school.

The C-7 group isn't just splitting up on blind faith (pardon the expression for a group of Catholic schools). If this was going to be disastrous for them financially, they wouldn't have split. People are so quick to blame things on ESPN conspiracies around here in some wacky John Nash-esque ways, yet have so much animosity toward the C-7 schools that they can't even recognize the one time where there actually is an incentive for ESPN to have some machinations behind the scenes that allows for ESPN to (a) pay a relatively low amount for the basketball product that they want while not having to buy football product that they don't want, (b) hurt their NBC competitor directly by taking top brand names away from the A-10 now and, if NBC ends up with the new contract, the Big East later, and © still pay enough to the C-7 that it would be more than what they would have received by staying in the hybrid. It's simple, direct, and doesn't involve 10 different things happening at one time. The writing is on the wall here. Trust me on this - the C-7 has been researching how much they'd be worth on their own for a loooooong time. It was simply a matter that they weren't going to leave until there truly was no return.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2012 10:33 AM by Frank the Tank.)
12-19-2012 10:32 AM
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DrBox Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:30 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  St. Louis was associated with FB schools and where did that get them? They had more success NOT being associated with FB schools.

Not really. Their best success came in the G Midwest and C-USA, both of which had footballs schools, the latter a football conference.
12-19-2012 10:35 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
Just out of curiousity Frank what do you think is a reasonable per year number for both leagues?
12-19-2012 10:36 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:35 AM)DrBox Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 10:30 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  St. Louis was associated with FB schools and where did that get them? They had more success NOT being associated with FB schools.

Not really. Their best success came in the G Midwest and C-USA, both of which had footballs schools, the latter a football conference.

I think their association with the A-10 under Marjerus has been their best success and exposure.
12-19-2012 10:42 AM
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NothingButKnight Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
No UCONN, Cincinnati, Louisville, Notre Dame, West Virginia, Pitt, or Syracuse. Of course the C7 doesn't begin to compare to the old BE.
12-19-2012 10:50 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:50 AM)NothingButKnight Wrote:  No UCONN, Cincinnati, Louisville, Notre Dame, West Virginia, Pitt, or Syracuse. Of course the C7 doesn't begin to compare to the old BE.

Columnists get paid to write X columns per week, whether or not there's any news to write about.
12-19-2012 10:54 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:36 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Just out of curiousity Frank what do you think is a reasonable per year number for both leagues?

Purely speculative:

$2 million per year for the C-7 schools seems to be the midrange target.

I think we're looking at $4 million per year as the midrange target for the all-sports Big East members.

I'd add or subtract 10-20% to each of those figures for the range.
12-19-2012 11:00 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 09:17 AM)lollaperuna Wrote:  http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...prime.html

Good, fair article.

Can't argue when the author said:

Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova (despite last season) are still national programs. Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul and St. John's are not, and have not been for a long time.
12-19-2012 11:13 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 11:13 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 09:17 AM)lollaperuna Wrote:  http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...prime.html

Good, fair article.

Can't argue when the author said:

Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova (despite last season) are still national programs. Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul and St. John's are not, and have not been for a long time.

Whats a long time?
12-19-2012 11:19 AM
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ej6687 Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 10:35 AM)DrBox Wrote:  
(12-19-2012 10:30 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  St. Louis was associated with FB schools and where did that get them? They had more success NOT being associated with FB schools.

Not really. Their best success came in the G Midwest and C-USA, both of which had footballs schools, the latter a football conference.

I think their association with the A-10 under Marjerus has been their best success and exposure.

They've been to the tourney once since they moved to the A-10, so they'll fit in well with Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, and St John's.....
12-19-2012 11:20 AM
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DrBox Offline
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RE: C-7 Wont be Big East in its prime
(12-19-2012 10:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I think their association with the A-10 under Marjerus has been their best success and exposure.

1 CIT and 1 NCAA in 7 seasons. They were never bad or anything and, indeed Majerus brings exposure and Ws.
You'll also find a significant drop-off in UNC Charlotte since leaving C-USA and the metro.
Personally, I think it has nothing to do with whether their conference mates play FBS football or not. Charlotte was always in a division with Cincy and Louisville, and when they lost that, they perhaps lost their recruiting edge.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2012 11:22 AM by DrBox.)
12-19-2012 11:20 AM
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