(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  Why would DeCourcey care about anything. When you can quote anonymous sources the whole world is your oyster. Hell, you can say anything. I can ask someone in the UH maintenance building parking lot if they think we're going to the Canadian football league. Voila! I have a source close to the University of Houston.

I think that you may be missing the that he said "considering."

(01-16-2013 11:06 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  UConn and Cinci probably can join the C7 if they'll have them. I don't think most of the new schools can stop them right now from keeping their football only in the BE. For UConn this probably makes a lot of sense. For Cinci - meh

Come 7/1, they would have the majority. They definitely can stop them from fb only in the BE.

Who would get to vote on a by-law change right now? USF, Cincy and UConn? It's a screwy situation, but UConn can certainly make plans for this configuration.

Unless the Big East adds Navy for all sports (assuming that ECU gets an all sports invite) they have to allow this configuration.

right now, those 3 plus Temple.. So, can't ram rod something thru.

(01-16-2013 10:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I cannot see UC parking their football in the MAC. Alums would go ballistic.

+1

(01-16-2013 10:58 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The only realistic way that I could see UC and UConn splitting their sports is if the MWC offers both of them the same TV setup that they agreed to with Boise State.

+1

Not that there's any indication the Mtn. is willing to make that offer. But yeah, if such an offer were on the table, it would at least merit serious consideration. And unless/until there is such an offer (or -- obviously -- an invite from one of the 5 power conferences), I'd give 500-to-1 odds that each of the 10 remaining/incoming all-sports members of the Aresco League stay right where they are. They won't be happy about it, but unless they're stupid they will see that it's their best option for the time being.

(01-16-2013 11:06 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  Why would DeCourcey care about anything. When you can quote anonymous sources the whole world is your oyster. Hell, you can say anything. I can ask someone in the UH maintenance building parking lot if they think we're going to the Canadian football league. Voila! I have a source close to the University of Houston.

Once again, I still don't understand this attitude. Unless you want plain vanilla boring non-news press releases, you MUST have anonymous sources to get any news of any real value. No one is going on the record with sensitive information in the middle of the deal or negotiations. So, if you're fine about hearing no news at all until the actual press conference is held, then that's fine. If you want to know anything at all in the interim, though, then it's going to have to come through anonymous sources.

Whether a reporter's sources are to be trusted is another matter. That can only be judged over time. For instance, Bob Woodward's anonymous sources can be assumed to be a tad bit more trustworthy than West Virginia bloggers' anonymous sources. However, the point remains that you'll get nothing but plain vanilla crap if you're expecting reporters to name people that they're getting sensitive information from.

...and you have to be prepared for some weird/wild rumors and learn how to take them as just more information rather than the end of the world. The conference remains in flux and will until UConn/Cincy settle in an appropriate home. Folks just have to accept what's happening and all of the turmoil surrounding the process.

Everyone will be playing football and basketball for decades to come....just relax and watch it play out. "But, but, but you don't understand, we were expecting........." Yeah, all of us were expecting something different than what's going on.

(01-16-2013 11:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  UConn and Cinci probably can join the C7 if they'll have them. I don't think most of the new schools can stop them right now from keeping their football only in the BE. For UConn this probably makes a lot of sense. For Cinci - meh

Come 7/1, they would have the majority. They definitely can stop them from fb only in the BE.

But why would they? Do you really think whats left of the nBE would benfit in any way from kicking out UConn and Cinci's football programs? Not to mention, at this late date, we would be looking at an 8 team league---or a 7 game schedule. We would all be scrambling to look for another OOC game and have even LESS value to the networks.

(01-16-2013 11:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  UConn and Cinci probably can join the C7 if they'll have them. I don't think most of the new schools can stop them right now from keeping their football only in the BE. For UConn this probably makes a lot of sense. For Cinci - meh

Come 7/1, they would have the majority. They definitely can stop them from fb only in the BE.

But why would they?

Because the meager money that having them for football only wouldn't be worth the humiliation of having them for football only while they keep their better, more important sport in a better league.

I wouldn't worry much about THAT problem, Cougar. If you want to worry about the ramifications of UConn choosing the C-7, worry about whether you want to accept the MWC invite that follows.

(01-16-2013 11:39 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  UConn and Cinci probably can join the C7 if they'll have them. I don't think most of the new schools can stop them right now from keeping their football only in the BE. For UConn this probably makes a lot of sense. For Cinci - meh

Come 7/1, they would have the majority. They definitely can stop them from fb only in the BE.

But why would they?

Because the meager money that having them for football only wouldn't be worth the humiliation of having them for football only while they keep their better, more important sport in a better league.

I wouldn't worry much about THAT problem, Cougar. If you want to worry about the ramifications of UConn choosing the C-7, worry about whether you want to accept the MWC invite that follows.

Thats kinda my point. I dont see how the nBE can afford to cavalierly just say no to a UConn or Cinci football membership. I mean, at that point, we really would just be the CUSA 2012 line up with Temple and USF. Would CUSA turn down a request for UConn or Cinci for football only? I doubt it. Its not ideal for the nBE, but given whats left of the nBE, I dont see what would be the point of dumping UConn/Cinci football. It seems like more of an emotional decision than a rational one. However, at this moment Im so disgusted by the whole devolving of the nBE that I could care less if it gets dissolved by a C-7 vote. The whole move has lost most of its appeal due to the changes that occurred over the last year.

(01-16-2013 11:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:00 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  UConn and Cinci probably can join the C7 if they'll have them. I don't think most of the new schools can stop them right now from keeping their football only in the BE. For UConn this probably makes a lot of sense. For Cinci - meh

Come 7/1, they would have the majority. They definitely can stop them from fb only in the BE.

But why would they? Do you really think whats left of the nBE would benfit in any way from kicking out UConn and Cinci's football programs? Not to mention, at this late date, we would be looking at an 8 team league---or a 7 game schedule. We would all be scrambling to look for another OOC game and have even LESS value to the networks.

The thing is, the MAC is NOT a viable option and the MWC is a pie in the sky most likely. So, it's very likely they force them to be all in.

(01-16-2013 11:46 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont see what would be the point of dumping UConn/Cinci football. It seems like more of an emotional decision than a rational one.

Don't bet against that in college sports, either. Let's say the 10-team football league is worth $3M per team with UConn and Cincy. Say it's probably worth $2M a year without them. A university president has a hard time standing up and saying "Letting UConn and Cincy pee in our faces is the right business decision for the University football."

It's like working at a strip club--even if the money is better than McDonalds, most people won't do it unless they really have to. There is kind of a "dignity premium."

Plus, since you need 8 full FBS members, Football Affiliates are kind of at a discount. If you let UConn and Cincy go to the C-7, why wouldn't Houston and SMU go to the now-even-stronger MWC?

(01-16-2013 11:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:46 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont see what would be the point of dumping UConn/Cinci football. It seems like more of an emotional decision than a rational one.

Don't bet against that in college sports, either. Let's say the 10-team football league is worth $3M per team with UConn and Cincy. Say it's probably worth $2M a year without them. A university president has a hard time standing up and saying "Letting UConn and Cincy pee in our faces is the right business decision for the University football."

It's like working at a strip club--even if the money is better than McDonalds, most people won't do it unless they really have to. There is kind of a "dignity premium."

Plus, since you need 8 full FBS members, Football Affiliates are kind of at a discount. If you let UConn and Cincy go to the C-7, why wouldn't Houston and SMU go to the now-even-stronger MWC?

Id say its the opposite. If you let Cinci and UConn football go to the MW, at that point why would Houston and SMU stay is whats left of the nBE when they could join up in a much stronger MW?

(01-16-2013 11:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:46 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont see what would be the point of dumping UConn/Cinci football. It seems like more of an emotional decision than a rational one.

Don't bet against that in college sports, either. Let's say the 10-team football league is worth $3M per team with UConn and Cincy. Say it's probably worth $2M a year without them. A university president has a hard time standing up and saying "Letting UConn and Cincy pee in our faces is the right business decision for the University football."

It's like working at a strip club--even if the money is better than McDonalds, most people won't do it unless they really have to. There is kind of a "dignity premium."

Plus, since you need 8 full FBS members, Football Affiliates are kind of at a discount. If you let UConn and Cincy go to the C-7, why wouldn't Houston and SMU go to the now-even-stronger MWC?

Id say its the opposite. If you let Cinci and UConn football go to the MW, at that point why would Houston and SMU stay is whats left of the nBE when they could join up in a much stronger MW?

IT's a game of chicken--if UConn is really willing to go C-7/MWC, you're screwed anyway. If UConn is bluffing about the MWC, you win. And if you win, the all-sports contract is for say $5M per because UConn basketball.

Let's say Aresco bends over for UConn and Cincy football-only. The TV contract is around $3M. Is the $3M in Metro Conference money enough to keep Houston out of the MWC?

So, be damned accuracy, just make sure the rumor isn't plain vanilla? I have to put up with some wild theories to get somthing interesting? You can't get good information without anonymous sources?

Where we you ******* people when I was selling cars in college?

(01-16-2013 12:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 11:46 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I dont see what would be the point of dumping UConn/Cinci football. It seems like more of an emotional decision than a rational one.

Don't bet against that in college sports, either. Let's say the 10-team football league is worth $3M per team with UConn and Cincy. Say it's probably worth $2M a year without them. A university president has a hard time standing up and saying "Letting UConn and Cincy pee in our faces is the right business decision for the University football."

It's like working at a strip club--even if the money is better than McDonalds, most people won't do it unless they really have to. There is kind of a "dignity premium."

Plus, since you need 8 full FBS members, Football Affiliates are kind of at a discount. If you let UConn and Cincy go to the C-7, why wouldn't Houston and SMU go to the now-even-stronger MWC?

Id say its the opposite. If you let Cinci and UConn football go to the MW, at that point why would Houston and SMU stay is whats left of the nBE when they could join up in a much stronger MW?

IT's a game of chicken--if UConn is really willing to go C-7/MWC, you're screwed anyway. If UConn is bluffing about the MWC, you win. And if you win, the all-sports contract is for say $5M per because UConn basketball.

Let's say Aresco bends over for UConn and Cincy football-only. The TV contract is around $3M. Is the $3M in Metro Conference money enough to keep Houston out of the MWC?

No way the other schools would let UConn and Cincy go football only. All sports or get out. You just can't allow that and keep this conference together. This is crazy.

(01-16-2013 10:33 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  Is the C7 BB that much better? The nBE has Uconn, Cinci, Memphis and Temple. Houston, UCF and USF are doing fine. (USF beat Nova *3* times last year) Other than Nova and Georgetown, is the rest of the C7 inventory that massive a deal historically? No offense, I just see the BB quality about equal.

The oBE was the best BB conference without argumenet, but even the C7 lost Cuse, LV, Pitt, WV, AND all the nBE schools. They are hardly the 'Big East' any more than we are.

Uconn best available option is right where they are... don't get desperate and thus start acting nutty.

From an on-the-court perspective, you could argue that they're equal as long as UConn and Cincinnati are in the league.

However, from a TV perspective, no, they're not equal. UConn as an individual school is more valuable than any single member in the C7, but from top-to-bottom, the C7 has more TV value (especially when you start counting in Xavier and Butler). It would be like trying to argue that Mountain West basketball is worth more from a TV perspective than Pac-12 basketball because the MWC has been better on-the-court lately. Sure, the MWC has performed better, but the Pac-12 is clearly much more valuable TV-wise.

The main point is this: the C7 as a collective is worth more as a whole than the sum of its parts. They have a common vision with like-minded schools in the VERY biggest markets (NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly). When you talk about TV markets, *those* are the ones that really matter and get TV executives' blood pumping. In contrast, the Big East is the opposite - it has some individual assets with value such as UConn, Cincinnati and Memphis, but the schools don't mesh together outside of being a temporary marriage of convenience, so they're not getting any premium as a whole.

Now, that being said, I agree that UConn isn't going to act nutty here. I can't imagine them putting their football program in the MAC or MWC (with the one exception that they get a Boise State-type deal that actually makes it worth it in terms of money and exposure), so the Big East is still the best overall home for them.

Thanks Frank, appreciate the response. Good points, but (call me a cockeyed optimist here...) I hope the nBE is more than a marriage of convenience. Once the dust settles, all the nBE members are pretty similar from an institution, market, objective perspective. Many new conferences started this way. Sure everyone wants to move up, but there has to be an upper limit to Big 5 expansion at some point. I prefer to think of the nBE as the beginning of something that can grow and stabilize. (Okay, that should give everyone a good laugh.)

I said when I first posted here that UConn and UC would try to get out because of the poor amount of basketball competition. Now we're hearing from a reliable source (DeCoursey) that these two are looking at splitting up their sports to fit their best interest. But as for the newBE, I see it more and more becoming a shortened version of the current Conference USA. For one thing, if UConn and UC do join with the C7, then expect Memphis and Temple to follow as those are basketball programs too. Meanwhile, USF gets stuck with all CUSA leftovers. Is a conference of USF, UCF, Tulane, ECU, Houston, and SMU really going to demand big dollars? No way! And if you're Memphis and Temple. you go where the money is greater, which in this case would be the C7. Even if it's only $3 million a year. That's more than the remaining nBE would get for all sports. The current CUSA is getting a little over $1.5 million per school.

As for where would football go? If the nBE is dumb enough to accept those schools to be for football only, then there's your answer. If not, then go to the MAC. UC, UConn, Memphis and Temple's boosters are basketball-first supporters so it won't matter where football ends up, really.

Truth be told, going independent as an option for 1 year won't kill those football programs. There's going to be another shakeup coming soon anyway, probably before 2013 ends.

Well, since the only schools with votes right now are the bball schools (haven't heard that they submitted their formal withdrawal yet), USF, UC and UConn, I am not sure what the other nBE schools can do. If the "conference," as it currently stands, allows UConn and UC to withdraw and be a football only member, not sure what the newbies can do. Plus, are Uconn's and UC's programs conference assets? Can the C7 claims them (with UC's and UConn's approval) as assets to be split in the separation? Lots of legal arguments here.

In short, if UConn and UC want to go with the C7, I would guess they would be allowed to go, with their football programs remaining with the nBE. If not, they could just dissolve the conference with the hoops schools and leave the nBE schools without a home.

(01-16-2013 12:29 PM)MU88 Wrote:  If not, they could just dissolve the conference with the hoops schools and leave the nBE schools without a home.

That very well might happen.

(01-16-2013 12:29 PM)GTG Wrote:  For one thing, if UConn and UC do join with the C7, then expect Memphis and Temple to follow as those are basketball programs too.

They won't have that opportunity. 30 years of history, multiple national championships and the necessary 8th vote to make a 3/4 majority means that we take UConn. For the sake of UConn we maybe take Cincy.

Memphis, Temple and USF etc would be on their own.

(01-16-2013 12:35 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2013 12:29 PM)GTG Wrote:  For one thing, if UConn and UC do join with the C7, then expect Memphis and Temple to follow as those are basketball programs too.

They won't have that opportunity. 30 years of history, multiple national championships and the necessary 8th vote to make a 3/4 majority means that we take UConn. For the sake of UConn we maybe take Cincy.

Memphis, Temple and USF etc would be on their own.

I understand the biased towards southern schools from the northern folks. But Memphis basketball over the last decade trumps all of the new C7 and its potential new additions, minus UConn. So if they want TV exposure with a top 10 program over that period of time, then they'd be wise to ask Memphis to join. Plus Memphis offers sellout crowds which is revenue and a great place to hold a conference tournament. Can't beat Beale Street and Graceland.

(01-16-2013 12:16 PM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  So, be damned accuracy, just make sure the rumor isn't plain vanilla? I have to put up with some wild theories to get somthing interesting? You can't get good information without anonymous sources?

Where we you ******* people when I was selling cars in college?

No, not accuracy be damned, but don't be so obtuse to put a guy like Mike DeCourcey into the same realm as West Virginia bloggers and say that he's getting his info from the parking lot. As I've said, a reporter's reputation is based on his/her sources being correct more often than not. Some guys might not care about their reputations, but you can pretty quickly weed those out and ignore them. I just get tired of the "Who's the source?" demands. Forget about sports - if political reporters could only provide on-the-record information vetted by some White House or Congressional bureaucrat or PR person, we'd be a whole lot worse off for it. Our newspapers would essentially look like the People's Daily in China in that scenario.

So, I don't know what the heck people are expecting. If you're expecting someone to say his/her source is the UConn president and say that upfront with respect to anything involving UConn, then that's an unreasonable standard. To me, it's all confirmation bias, where we're totally cool with anonymous sources that confirm our bias, and then attack the use of anonymous sources that go against our bias. In reality, the vast majority of anything that's worth anything in a newspaper on any given day would only be there because of anonymous sources, whether it's as something as large as Watergate or sports stories about conference realignment or athletes using performance enhancing drugs.