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Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
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johnbragg Offline
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Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
There is a risk that UConn, USF, Cincinnati and maybe Temple will sell the Big East name to the C7 in exchange for all claim to the exit fee money, and then divide up the exit fee money amongst themselves. According to the emails sent by the Aresco League lawyer last December, there will be about $18.8M in the Realignment Reserve Fund by June 2013. Call it $21M when you include Boise's cancellation fee of $2.5M.

So they could sell the name to the C7 for the Realignment Fund, and then distribute the money amongst themselves, $7M each.

The new schools would be left with just the money coming in from Rutgers and Louisville, and maybe a final installment from Pitt and Syracuse, the article said $25M. That would have to be split 10 ways (or maybe 8 if they split the money in June 2014 before Tulane and ECU arrive.)

Plus $17.5M in entry fees over five years, if the entry fees get collected. But if the entry fees are being collected and then distributed to the membership, the entering schools are each paying $500,000 out of their conference revenue, for a total of $3.5M, which then gets split 10 ways, so they get a check for $350,000. (ACtually, by June 2013, Temple would have made 2 of their 5 payments. And Tulane and ECU's numbers look a little different because they're a year later. Their last year of paying entry fees, everyone gets a $100,000 check instead of $350,000.)
02-27-2013 10:39 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 10:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There is a risk that UConn, USF, Cincinnati and maybe Temple will sell the Big East name to the C7 in exchange for all claim to the exit fee money, and then divide up the exit fee money amongst themselves. According to the emails sent by the Aresco League lawyer last December, there will be about $18.8M in the Realignment Reserve Fund by June 2013. Call it $21M when you include Boise's cancellation fee of $2.5M.

So they could sell the name to the C7 for the Realignment Fund, and then distribute the money amongst themselves, $7M each.

The new schools would be left with just the money coming in from Rutgers and Louisville, and maybe a final installment from Pitt and Syracuse, the article said $25M. That would have to be split 10 ways (or maybe 8 if they split the money in June 2014 before Tulane and ECU arrive.)

Plus $17.5M in entry fees over five years, if the entry fees get collected. But if the entry fees are being collected and then distributed to the membership, the entering schools are each paying $500,000 out of their conference revenue, for a total of $3.5M, which then gets split 10 ways, so they get a check for $350,000. (ACtually, by June 2013, Temple would have made 2 of their 5 payments. And Tulane and ECU's numbers look a little different because they're a year later. Their last year of paying entry fees, everyone gets a $100,000 check instead of $350,000.)

They're not getting screwed if they are not entitled to it in the first place. And these incoming schools knew that from the outset.
02-27-2013 10:46 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 10:46 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  They're not getting screwed if they are not entitled to it in the first place. And these incoming schools knew that from the outset.

Well, they're certainly not getting what they signed up for. Arguably, they agreed to pay $2.5M in entry fees to be members of the Big East. So they have a property interest in the Big East name, which it's very possible that UConn/UC/USF will negotiate away, mostly to the benefit of UConn/USF/UC.

I don't know what that adds up to legally, but if they don't get an equal or nearly equal cut of the money from selling the Big EAst name, I say it's fair to say they got screwed.
02-27-2013 10:56 PM
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Fear The Frog Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
Well they sign up to Join the Big East... But don't think they get a vote so the others schools look to sell the name to the C7 schools and get more Cash...

I Think The entrance fees should be waved since they be joining a Unknown Conference and Not the Big East
02-27-2013 10:57 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 10:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 10:46 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  They're not getting screwed if they are not entitled to it in the first place. And these incoming schools knew that from the outset.

Well, they're certainly not getting what they signed up for. Arguably, they agreed to pay $2.5M in entry fees to be members of the Big East. So they have a property interest in the Big East name, which it's very possible that UConn/UC/USF will negotiate away, mostly to the benefit of UConn/USF/UC.

I don't know what that adds up to legally, but if they don't get an equal or nearly equal cut of the money from selling the Big EAst name, I say it's fair to say they got screwed.

But they are not officially members of the Big East. So again how are the new members getting screwed?
02-27-2013 11:01 PM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
Hello New Metro!
02-27-2013 11:20 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:01 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  But they are not officially members of the Big East. So again how are the new members getting screwed?

They agreed to pay money to become partners in something as of July 2013. If the existing partners transfer a valuable asset in March 2013, and divide the proceeds before July 1, you don't see a problem with that?

Now maybe they have no legal recourse. But it definitely qualifies as "getting screwed".
02-27-2013 11:36 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:01 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  But they are not officially members of the Big East. So again how are the new members getting screwed?

They agreed to pay money to become partners in something as of July 2013. If the existing partners transfer a valuable asset in March 2013, and divide the proceeds before July 1, you don't see a problem with that?

Now maybe they have no legal recourse. But it definitely qualifies as "getting screwed".

I bet it wouldnt be that hard for the incoming schools to obtain an injunction to stop the process. It might not last, but I bet they could get one if they really wanted to.

Personally, I think selling the name is something someone with an IQ in the mid-two figure range might do. It just so incredibly short sighted---which is exactly why I think it might just occur. Half the voting members on the football side dont think they will be there but a year or two. So why would they care? To them its just a quick payday before they leave. They wont be stuck trying to gain traction in the public domain with an unknown and unrecognized conference name for the next decade.
02-27-2013 11:48 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.
02-27-2013 11:59 PM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
If this were to go down as johnbragg suggests and I were Houston, Memphis, UCF and SMU (and Tulane and ECU to a lesser degree), I would have to ask myself if these are schools I really want to be associated with. It would be a simple matter for these six schools to rescind their intent to join and re-form as a new conference. I mean, what are they joining really? The C7 are gone and UConn and Cincy are apparently looking for a way out, so the six are essentially joining Temple and USF (plus a Navy who is iffy). That doesn't really send goosebumps down your spine. If this goes down, they could pull out now, start their own conference and possibly be in position to add members if the SEC, Big 10 and Big XII grab most of the valuable properties of the ACC.
02-28-2013 12:01 AM
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blunderbuss Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
We're basically just making sure we're not stuck in the latest incarnation of CUSA. My satisfaction with ECU's situation basically ends there. It's not great but it's not nearly as bad as it could be. I feel like ECU, Temple, USF, USF and Memphis are in this thing together come hell or high water.
02-28-2013 12:08 AM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 10:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There is a risk that UConn, USF, Cincinnati and maybe Temple will sell the Big East name to the C7 in exchange for all claim to the exit fee money, and then divide up the exit fee money amongst themselves. According to the emails sent by the Aresco League lawyer last December, there will be about $18.8M in the Realignment Reserve Fund by June 2013. Call it $21M when you include Boise's cancellation fee of $2.5M.

So they could sell the name to the C7 for the Realignment Fund, and then distribute the money amongst themselves, $7M each.

The new schools would be left with just the money coming in from Rutgers and Louisville, and maybe a final installment from Pitt and Syracuse, the article said $25M. That would have to be split 10 ways (or maybe 8 if they split the money in June 2014 before Tulane and ECU arrive.)

Plus $17.5M in entry fees over five years, if the entry fees get collected. But if the entry fees are being collected and then distributed to the membership, the entering schools are each paying $500,000 out of their conference revenue, for a total of $3.5M, which then gets split 10 ways, so they get a check for $350,000. (ACtually, by June 2013, Temple would have made 2 of their 5 payments. And Tulane and ECU's numbers look a little different because they're a year later. Their last year of paying entry fees, everyone gets a $100,000 check instead of $350,000.)

is it too late for the schools to tell the BE they're not coming?
02-28-2013 12:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
I still question whether the Big East name is even worth the amount of money the C7 would be giving up in this scenario.

UConn and friends might get away with it, I suppose, but that doesn't sound like a wise move considering that shortly after they did it they would become conference mates with a possibly angry group of schools that is large enough to outvote them on anything the conference might do in the future.
02-28-2013 12:42 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

lol....I hate to tell you, but most of America couldnt name 5 members of the old Big East. And half of the people that can will think Maimi and Virginia Tech are still members. Thats not whats important. Despite the fact that most folks can't rattle off the membership, they do recognize the conference name. Thats whats important. There is value in that--especially in recruiting. If you tell a recruit your in the "Big America Conference" or the "Big Metro Conference" they immediately check out because they have no interest in playing in a small backwater obscure FCS conference. The recruit will just think to himself--if this was an actual FBS conference, surely I would have at least heard of it before. Then he will politely end the call, and will accept that offer from Troy, because he's actually heard of the friggin Sunbelt.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 12:59 AM by Attackcoog.)
02-28-2013 12:47 AM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 12:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

lol....I hate to tell you, but most of America couldnt name 5 members of the old Big East. And half of the people that can will think Maimi and Virginia Tech are still members. Thats not whats important. Despite the fact that most folks can't rattle off the membership, they do recognize the conference name. Thats whats important. There is value in that--especially in recruiting. If you tell a recruit your in the "Big America Conference" or the "Big Metro Conference" they immediately check out because they have no interest in playing in a small backwater obscure FCS conference. The recruit will just think to himself--if this was an actual FBS conference, surely I would have at least heard of it before. Then he will politely end the call, and will accept that offer from Troy, because he's actually heard of the friggin Sunbelt.

If they don't know who was in the Big East they sure heck fire have no idea who UH is.

These recruits are smarter than you give them credit for. They know that everyone has left the Big East and that you are essentially CUSA:Classic.

The name will not make you any more money or bring in recruits who weren't considering you already.
02-28-2013 01:10 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 01:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 12:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

lol....I hate to tell you, but most of America couldnt name 5 members of the old Big East. And half of the people that can will think Maimi and Virginia Tech are still members. Thats not whats important. Despite the fact that most folks can't rattle off the membership, they do recognize the conference name. Thats whats important. There is value in that--especially in recruiting. If you tell a recruit your in the "Big America Conference" or the "Big Metro Conference" they immediately check out because they have no interest in playing in a small backwater obscure FCS conference. The recruit will just think to himself--if this was an actual FBS conference, surely I would have at least heard of it before. Then he will politely end the call, and will accept that offer from Troy, because he's actually heard of the friggin Sunbelt.

If they don't know who was in the Big East they sure heck fire have no idea who UH is.

These recruits are smarter than you give them credit for. They know that everyone has left the Big East and that you are essentially CUSA:Classic.

The name will not make you any more money or bring in recruits who weren't considering you already.

Lol...if they don't know who Houston is they probably wouldn't qualify anyway. JC material.

Seriously, your taking this all personal. The casual fan knows a few schools from each conference. He isn't like the folks here. He can't rattle off the ACC or SEC membership like he's reading flash cards. But he definitely recognizes the name ACC or the SEC. That's my point. Most recruits are not much different, especially when it comes to conferences outside of thier immediate area.

Besides, if the name is worthless, then leave it behind. No reason to pay any money for it, right? COGS

Relax. Don't worry. I'm sure we will give you guys the name. We haven't made a smart decision since September--why would we start now?
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 01:42 AM by Attackcoog.)
02-28-2013 01:29 AM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 01:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 01:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 12:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

lol....I hate to tell you, but most of America couldnt name 5 members of the old Big East. And half of the people that can will think Maimi and Virginia Tech are still members. Thats not whats important. Despite the fact that most folks can't rattle off the membership, they do recognize the conference name. Thats whats important. There is value in that--especially in recruiting. If you tell a recruit your in the "Big America Conference" or the "Big Metro Conference" they immediately check out because they have no interest in playing in a small backwater obscure FCS conference. The recruit will just think to himself--if this was an actual FBS conference, surely I would have at least heard of it before. Then he will politely end the call, and will accept that offer from Troy, because he's actually heard of the friggin Sunbelt.

If they don't know who was in the Big East they sure heck fire have no idea who UH is.

These recruits are smarter than you give them credit for. They know that everyone has left the Big East and that you are essentially CUSA:Classic.

The name will not make you any more money or bring in recruits who weren't considering you already.

Lol...if they don't know who Houston is they probably wouldn't qualify anyway. JC material.

Seriously, your taking this all personal. The casual fan knows a few schools from each conference. He isn't like the folks here. He can't rattle off the ACC or SEC membership like he's reading flash cards. But he definitely recognizes the name ACC or the SEC. That's my point. Most recruits are not much different, especially when it comes to conferences outside of thier immediate area.

Besides, if the name is worthless, then leave it behind. No reason to pay any money for it, right? COGS

Relax. Don't worry. I'm sure we will give you guys the name. We haven't made a smart decision since September--why would we start now?

How did my response come off as me taking it personal?

The name is worthless as a FB conference. As a BBall conference with teams people associate with the history of the Big East it is worth something. No matter how you try to rationalize it but you wont trick anyone especially recruits into thinking the conference is something it is not.

Im very relaxed, i know things will work out in both of our favors.
02-28-2013 02:34 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

Doesn't Houston have the rights to the SWC name. Thought I read that some time ago. They can sell it to the new conference if Temple, USF, Cinn, and UConn sell the BE name so they will get a big payday out of it too. Personally I think the SWC is a better brand name than the BE is right now for the FB schools even though it has been in the closet for a number of years, especially for the way the BE name has been kicked around and ridiculed lately.
02-28-2013 08:19 AM
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:01 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  But they are not officially members of the Big East. So again how are the new members getting screwed?

They agreed to pay money to become partners in something as of July 2013. If the existing partners transfer a valuable asset in March 2013, and divide the proceeds before July 1, you don't see a problem with that?

Now maybe they have no legal recourse. But it definitely qualifies as "getting screwed".

It is similar to bait and switch without the intention. Schools can claim they were lead to believe they were signing on to "something" which had certain rights/expectations going forward. That "something" is really unknown. If the schools signed on knowing they had no rights/expectations, even if the conference fell apart before they officially join, then they have no recourse. If that wasn't spelled out at all, they certainly have a case...favorable or not.

I think it'll boil down to what the remaining schools want to do and how they want to move forward with the conference they are currently in. It could mean the difference in one that bands together or one that fights from the start.

Proceeding in any way that could hurt part of your conference (even if it's in your rights) doesn't help the Big East move forward in a positive fashion. Sometimes it makes more sense to treat everyone evenly...or close to it. Maybe slightly weighted shares. The three old members getting a slightly higher share than the rest. I can not see the second group of four + Temple getting more than ECU and Tulane. No one needs a caste system within a caste system.
02-28-2013 08:58 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 08:58 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 11:01 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  But they are not officially members of the Big East. So again how are the new members getting screwed?

They agreed to pay money to become partners in something as of July 2013. If the existing partners transfer a valuable asset in March 2013, and divide the proceeds before July 1, you don't see a problem with that?

Now maybe they have no legal recourse. But it definitely qualifies as "getting screwed".

It is similar to bait and switch without the intention. Schools can claim they were lead to believe they were signing on to "something" which had certain rights/expectations going forward. That "something" is really unknown. If the schools signed on knowing they had no rights/expectations, even if the conference fell apart before they officially join, then they have no recourse. If that wasn't spelled out at all, they certainly have a case...favorable or not.

I think it'll boil down to what the remaining schools want to do and how they want to move forward with the conference they are currently in. It could mean the difference in one that bands together or one that fights from the start.

Proceeding in any way that could hurt part of your conference (even if it's in your rights) doesn't help the Big East move forward in a positive fashion. Sometimes it makes more sense to treat everyone evenly...or close to it. Maybe slightly weighted shares. The three old members getting a slightly higher share than the rest. I can not see the second group of four + Temple getting more than ECU and Tulane. No one needs a caste system within a caste system.

I think it would make sense for the Aresco LEague to waive the entry fees, and to distribute the REalignment Fund money evenly over time. The problem is that, from the lawyer's email, those entry fees are tagged to go into the Realignment Fund. That means, the C-7 own half-title to those entry fees, which is bizarre. That's part of the reason I think the deal will be name-for-Realignment Fund. The quick exit will go with the name, largely because the incoming schools don't want to rebrand in 2013 and then do it all again in 2014.

The holdover schools are going to benefit from the NCAA credits that the incoming schools won't get.

ECU and Tulane are entering a year later, so they lose out on one year of Realignment Fund distributions. Temple will have already paid $1,000,000 in entry fees by the end of this year, assuming they paid $500,000 last June and $500,000 this June. On the other hand, MAC/A10 to Aresco LEague is a clear upgrade. The conference might forgive whatever Temple still owes on the loan to pay their MAC exit fee.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 09:30 AM by johnbragg.)
02-28-2013 09:26 AM
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