(03-01-2013 10:05 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:50 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:21 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In today's world, the name Metro sounds D II-ish. IMO, it doesn't live up to today's marketing standards.

Do you want to list the conferences, besides the Big East obviously, that do have names that live up to today's marketing standards?

Why do I need to do that? They aren't the ones looking for new names. The closest thing lately was the divisions in the B1G and you see how that turned out. It is VERY important to get it right.

I want to get an idea of what you consider a name that does "live up to today's marketing standards." Maybe you don't really have an idea of what you'd consider a name that does that.

Or are you saying that ANY new conference name sucks because it's new?

There are conferences that have names that are "timeless" in my opinion. The ACC, PAC and SEC. The name defines them and while they may have accepted schools outside of their geographic name, the name still very marketable and applicable. The Big XII and Big Ten are both still very marketable today but have more limitations than the other three. I personally believe those marketing limitations were behind the whole "B1G" moniker. They are going to change the division names again soon. The names need to fit what today's marketing standards demand. Obviously you try for something "timeless" but sometimes fall back to something fadish that could become timeless (the use of the word "cool" comes to mind as a simile).

Some names sound like 20, 30 or 40 years ago. They sound historic...or just plan old, as in another generation. The Metro is just that. It's kinda like an afro. A word you hear and it reminds you of an era. There are people who have them today but you think of that era just the same when you see that person.

I could see how Metro sounds 70s/80s, especially when you're used to seeing it with that very 70s typeface. But change it to a normal typeface, put it on a generic skyline, and I think in 2-3 years, you're fine.

(03-01-2013 10:16 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 10:05 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:50 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Do you want to list the conferences, besides the Big East obviously, that do have names that live up to today's marketing standards?

Why do I need to do that? They aren't the ones looking for new names. The closest thing lately was the divisions in the B1G and you see how that turned out. It is VERY important to get it right.

I want to get an idea of what you consider a name that does "live up to today's marketing standards." Maybe you don't really have an idea of what you'd consider a name that does that.

Or are you saying that ANY new conference name sucks because it's new?

There are conferences that have names that are "timeless" in my opinion. The ACC, PAC and SEC. The name defines them and while they may have accepted schools outside of their geographic name, the name still very marketable and applicable. The Big XII and Big Ten are both still very marketable today but have more limitations than the other three. I personally believe those marketing limitations were behind the whole "B1G" moniker. They are going to change the division names again soon. The names need to fit what today's marketing standards demand. Obviously you try for something "timeless" but sometimes fall back to something fadish that could become timeless (the use of the word "cool" comes to mind as a simile).

Some names sound like 20, 30 or 40 years ago. They sound historic...or just plan old, as in another generation. The Metro is just that. It's kinda like an afro. A word you hear and it reminds you of an era. There are people who have them today but you think of that era just the same when you see that person.

I could see how Metro sounds 70s/80s, especially when you're used to seeing it with that very 70s typeface. But change it to a normal typeface, put it on a generic skyline, and I think in 2-3 years, you're fine.

I'm glad you could get past it. I don't think I could.

I like the retro appeal. What would be a modernized name? The eXtreme Conference? P-Conf? Conference.NET?

Personally I'd suggest "Metro" or clinging to "Big East" for dear life.

ECU was never good enough for The Metro anyway. I'm pretty sure y'all sent us a brochure and we tossed it. I wish CUSA had done the same.

(03-01-2013 08:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:50 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:21 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In today's world, the name Metro sounds D II-ish. IMO, it doesn't live up to today's marketing standards.

Do you want to list the conferences, besides the Big East obviously, that do have names that live up to today's marketing standards?

Why do I need to do that? They aren't the ones looking for new names. The closest thing lately was the divisions in the B1G and you see how that turned out. It is VERY important to get it right.

I want to get an idea of what you consider a name that does "live up to today's marketing standards." Maybe you don't really have an idea of what you'd consider a name that does that.

Or are you saying that ANY new conference name sucks because it's new?

Well, your last statement, to quote Mona Lisa Vito, is absolutely 100% balls on accurate. ANY new conference name sucks because it starts from ground zero in the public domain. That said, from what I can tell, a traditional sounding name seems to best stand the test of time. Newer names that try to be trendy and current run the risk of looking silly and dated in a few years (for example, CUSA).

Traditional names generally have a modifier (big, grand, great, etc) followed by a geographic description ( N, S, E, Mountain, Plains, Coast, etc), a number--or both. Traditional names seem to stand the test of time and tend to be more easily accepted--maybe because they seem to be older than they are and impart a general sense of the conference identity.

From what I can tell, a good name may not necessarily help a conference all that much. But a bad name can hurt the perception of a conference. The name has definitely been a handicap for CUSA. So, I'd say its more important to simply avoid picking a bad name than it is to stumble upon on a home run name.

I think the CUSA name is a good one. I never perceived it as a bad choice.

(03-01-2013 10:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 08:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Or are you saying that ANY new conference name sucks because it's new?

Well, your last statement, to quote Mona Lisa Vito, is absolutely 100% balls on accurate. ANY new conference name sucks because it starts from ground zero in the public domain. That said, from what I can tell, a traditional sounding name seems to best stand the test of time. Newer names that try to be trendy and current run the risk of looking silly and dated in a few years (for example, CUSA).

Traditional names generally have a modifier (big, grand, great, etc) followed by a geographic description ( N, S, E, Mountain, Plains, Coast, etc), a number--or both. Traditional names seem to stand the test of time and tend to be more easily accepted--maybe because they seem to be older than they are and impart a general sense of the conference identity.

That makes sense. I can see sticking as closely as possible to what established names look like--Big 10 Big 12 SEC ACC PAC-10/12 Big East. IF I were the Sun Belt commissioner, I'd change their name tomorrow--there was an "American South Conference" for a few years, I'd use that.

It also helps that those conferences aren't just traditional names--they're traditional conferences. 10/14 SEC and Big Ten teams have been there forever, 8/10 Big 12 teams were in the SWC or Big 8 forever (not counting TCU), 8/12 PAC teams were there forever, plus ASU and Arizona for 30+ years, I think now 6 ACC teams were there forever, plus Georgia Tech for 30+ years and FSU for 20+.

If you don't have that continuity, then the name doesn't do any good. Look at the WAC, the Missouri Valley, the SoCon.

I suggested Metro because it had a history with some of you, and you guys ARE metro, urban schools except for ECU. If not, then "Eastern 10/11/12" may be the best bet. Follows up on the old "Eastern 8" that I think became the A-10.

Quote:From what I can tell, a good name may not necessarily help a conference all that much. But a bad name can hurt the perception of a conference. The name has definitely been a handicap for CUSA.

Mountain West started not so long after CUSA, and did just fine. The problem with the CUSA name wasn't newness, it was that it was a stupid name. (Does anyone know why they didn't just use the Metro name for the all-sports conference?) And that as soon as you had some programs with some national relevance, the ACC raided the Big East raided CUSA.

I'd say you started over from square one in 2005. 5 of 12 champions or co-champions in football walked out the door to the Big East and to the MWC. Before 2005, in 6 out of 9 years, a CUSA champ or co-champ was ranked in the final AP poll. (Using wikipedia). Since then, you've had a ranked team in the CCG in 3 years out of 8. (Not an exact comparison, of course but close enough).

Quote:So, I'd say its more important to simply avoid picking a bad name than it is to stumble upon on a home run name.

Yes. There's no such thing as a "home run name" for a new or re-launched conference. If Johns Hopkins, MIT, U of Chicago and whoever formed something to compete with the Ivy League, all they'd need is a not-stupid name. (Details not important, just the first three Ivy-calibers I thought of besides power-conference schools).

BigEastHomer has compared changing the conference name to Kerry Russel (the chick from Felicity) cutting her hair.

The analogy is close, except that the C=7 would be Kerry Russell, and the "New Big East" would be some new actress in a Kerry Russell wig. (The show gets cancelled either way.)

(03-01-2013 08:21 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In today's world, the name Metro sounds D II-ish. IMO, it doesn't live up to today's marketing standards.

Today's marketing standards suck. How else would we have a show based on some stupid, fat, ugly beauty contestant named Honey Boo Boo and her stupid, fat, ugly mamma?

(03-01-2013 11:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  BigEastHomer has compared changing the conference name to Kerry Russel (the chick from Felicity) cutting her hair.

The analogy is close, except that the C=7 would be Kerry Russell, and the "New Big East" would be some new actress in a Kerry Russell wig. (The show gets cancelled either way.)

I think he just likes Keri Russell....with long hair...

Johnbragg, don't know if you've got me on ignore, but my recollection was that the Metro name wasn't used for CUSA because the Great Midwest Conference didn't want the overall transaction to be perceived as a takeover of their conference by the Metro. I think there was also a perception that the Metro name was dated and that a new name would create marketing buzz.

The American South Conference merged into the Sun Belt. If they wanted to be the ASC they could. Incidentally, I used to be a UNO fan, and remember them getting kicked from the SBC to the new ASC because of their poor arena. Later, the SBC absorbed the ASC and got UNO back (along with the completely over-the-top arena they had decided to build).

CUSA is the legal successor to The Metro and if C-Whatever wants the name, they have to deal with us(m).

(03-01-2013 12:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  Johnbragg, don't know if you've got me on ignore,

Not at all. The price of modhood is losing the ignore button.

Quote:but my recollection was that the Metro name wasn't used for CUSA because the Great Midwest Conference didn't want the overall transaction to be perceived as a takeover of their conference by the Metro. I think there was also a perception that the Metro name was dated and that a new name would create marketing buzz.

Thanks.

Quote:The American South Conference merged into the Sun Belt. If they wanted to be the ASC they could. Incidentally, I used to be a UNO fan, and remember them getting kicked from the SBC to the new ASC because of their poor arena. Later, the SBC absorbed the ASC and got UNO back (along with the completely over-the-top arena they had decided to build).

Quote:CUSA is the legal successor to The Metro and if C-Whatever wants the name, they have to deal with us(m).

Hmm. I've been favorable to the Metro Conference name, but not to the extent I'd pay another conference for it. Metro Conference > Eastern 12, but not by much.

It's also not a lock that those conferences still own those trademarks--if they aren't using them, or if they don't regularly file something, they go public domain.

Just did a google search for Metro Conference Trademark, and if "trademarkia" is accurate, it's listed as "Cancelled--Section 8 May 1996." http://www.trademarkia.com/metro-confere...77470.html

And the contact is a law firm in--Atlanta. Where today's meeting is. Was the old Metro Conference HQ in Atlanta?

(02-28-2013 06:06 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  At this point I would take the Metro over Conference America or some other crazy name they would come up with.

Amen. I think it's a pretty good conference name personally. It beats the hell out of trying to rebrand with something completely new.

(03-01-2013 01:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Just did a google search for Metro Conference Trademark, and if "trademarkia" is accurate, it's listed as "Cancelled--Section 8 May 1996." http://www.trademarkia.com/metro-confere...77470.html

And the contact is a law firm in--Atlanta. Where today's meeting is. Was the old Metro Conference HQ in Atlanta?

LOL. We never thought it would be worth anything. One of our many miscalculations I suppose.

As for the new name for the football-playing schools, I suggest "EAC" for "Eastern Athletic Conference".

(1) The new conference has Big EAST roots

(2) The footprint lies with the eastern half of the continental US (and the eastern fourth of the US footprint which includes Hawaii.

(3) It sounds "collegiate" and traditional

(4) There is a great deal of precedent for geographic conference names (SEC, PAC 12, ACC, Big East, SWC, Big West, Mountain West, MAC, Atlantic 10, Missouri Valley, etc.).

I sincerely hope that such hokey names as "Big America", "Metro", etc. are avoided.

Judging by their board, it seems that NBE folks are warming up to the Metro name.

(03-06-2013 08:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Judging by their board, it seems that NBE folks are warming up to the Metro name.

Yes they are, but I think it's probably a mistake. Too trendy and has to much of a 70's appeal. The idea is to sound old. Not 1970's old...Closer to 1900 old. You want to sound old like Big-10 and PAC-8 old. You might be able to play with it some like Blaudschun suggested to make it sound more traditional, Big Metro, Great Metro, Metropolitan 10... Personally, I'd avoid Metro. The complaints about the Big East branding centered on it having a strong basketball heritage and a weak football reputation. Same with Metro---but without the Big East names elegant simplicity, traditional nature, and well known recognition factor. Other than older folks over 45-50 having a vague memory of it, I don't see any real upside to the name. The typical 18 year old recruit has never heard of the Metro. Im afraid that the Metro name has a CUSA quality in that it strays from the traditional sound of the majority of college conference names. I'd prefer we avoid that path.

(03-06-2013 09:20 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 08:52 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Judging by their board, it seems that NBE folks are warming up to the Metro name.

Yes they are, but I think it's probably a mistake. Too trendy and has to much of a 70's appeal. The idea is to sound old. Not 1970's old...Closer to 1900 old. You want to sound old like Big-10 and PAC-8 old. You might be able to play with it some like Blaudschun suggested to make it sound more traditional, Big Metro, Great Metro, Metropolitan 10... Personally, I'd avoid Metro. The complaints about the Big East branding centered on it having a strong basketball heritage and a weak football reputation. Same with Metro---but without the Big East names elegant simplicity, traditional nature, and well known recognition factor. Other than older folks over 45-50 having a vague memory of it, I don't see any real upside to the name. The typical 18 year old recruit has never heard of the Metro. Im afraid that the Metro name has a CUSA quality in that it strays from the traditional sound of the majority of college conference names. I'd prefer we avoid that path.

Basically your choices are Metro or Big 11 then.

Reviving the Metro name means honoring those Final Fours and that basketball conference. "Metro" reviving that brand and expanding it into football. It's saying "we do have a past, we do have a history. We're bringing that history back and building on it."

I think if you go Metro you don't try to mix or alter it with Big Metro or Big MAC. Big Metro sounds less like Big 10 than Big South or Big West. Metro-12 works, since the original Metro was usually called by Metro-7 or 6 or whatever it was that year.

The problem with trying to sound Big 10 old is you're not. And grownups know you're not. But to a kid, 1971 and 1917 are equally distant. So a football/basketball conference that has been around, sort of, for 35 years like the Big East, or a football/basketball conference that has been around, sort of, for 40 years like the Metro, to a recruit it's not that different. (At least after a year or two of the Metro playing "again" on TV.)

With the Metro conference, Memphis and Cincinnati have plenty of old pictures of basketball players with 1970s afros and 1980s flat-tops holding trophies that say "Metro Conference" on them. That's as old-school as you guys are going to get.

(03-01-2013 03:05 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  As for the new name for the football-playing schools, I suggest "EAC" for "Eastern Athletic Conference".

(1) The new conference has Big EAST roots

(2) The footprint lies with the eastern half of the continental US (and the eastern fourth of the US footprint which includes Hawaii.

(3) It sounds "collegiate" and traditional

(4) There is a great deal of precedent for geographic conference names (SEC, PAC 12, ACC, Big East, SWC, Big West, Mountain West, MAC, Atlantic 10, Missouri Valley, etc.).

I sincerely hope that such hokey names as "Big America", "Metro", etc. are avoided.

EAC is freaking horrible, no offense. "EAC! EAC! EAC!" = EEK, EEK, EEK!

It scares the crap out of me to be honest.