Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
Author Message
johnbragg Offline
Five Minute Google Expert
*

Posts: 16,359
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 996
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #1
Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
1. For incoming schools, NOT coming would be more expensive that joining, under the current contracts. Since CUSA's TV deal isn't getting reduced, the CUSA exit fee is $500,000, and the Big East entry fee is $2.5M, according to the Houston and MEmphis entrance contracts. That's $3M, unless those contracts get rewritten. And by the still-valid entrance contracts, not joining would cost $5M. (The $1M-if-revenues-fall doesn't apply, and basically couldn't possibly have applied. I don't know why it was in the contracts)

2. Under the existing Big East bylaws, amending those bylaws takes a 3/4 vote. In July, there will be 3 old schools voting plus 5 new schools. (No votes for Tulane and ECU until they join in 2014.) So the new schools can't just outvote the old schools.
03-01-2013 09:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 46,240
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 725
I Root For: Sports
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
What is the % needed to expand?

Katz from ESPN was saying ECU/Tulane could get expedited. That would give it 7 new schools 3 old schools. If it takes 2/3 votes- the new schools would have control of expansion. They expand up to 12 and then 3/4 votes.

Also important to note- the hoops units are paid out yearly. So if they expand to 12 for the 2014-15 year, the only year Cincy/UConn/USF get all the hoops money would be next year.
03-01-2013 09:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Five Minute Google Expert
*

Posts: 16,359
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 996
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  What is the % needed to expand?

75%, same as anything except dissolution.

Quote:Katz from ESPN was saying ECU/Tulane could get expedited. That would give it 7 new schools 3 old schools. If it takes 2/3 votes- the new schools would have control of expansion. They expand up to 12 and then 3/4 votes.

Expansion takes a 3/4 vote. 7/10 doesn't cut it.

Quote:Also important to note- the hoops units are paid out yearly. So if they expand to 12 for the 2014-15 year, the only year Cincy/UConn/USF get all the hoops money would be next year.

The entrance contracts specify (and apparently this is standard practice) that the entering schools do not share tournament revenue earned before they enter. So Butler doesn't get any NCAA tournament income this year, except for whatever stipend the A-10 pays for expenses.
03-01-2013 09:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Eagleweiser Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,057
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 49
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU, UCF and SMU will not get off that lightly.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 09:45 AM by Eagleweiser.)
03-01-2013 09:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Five Minute Google Expert
*

Posts: 16,359
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 996
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:44 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU and SMU will not get off that lightly.

Why not? All the reports I've seen are that it's $500,000 plus losses from the TV deal. (I've seen the charter member thing plenty of times, but only on message boards, no offense.) There are no losses from the TV deal. So what are UCF, SMU and ECU paying and why?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tuls...ndbook.pdf
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 09:52 AM by johnbragg.)
03-01-2013 09:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 46,240
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 725
I Root For: Sports
Location:
Post: #6
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:44 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU, UCF and SMU will not get off that lightly.

in the bylaws there is no distinction between charter members and everyone else.
03-01-2013 09:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Eagleweiser Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,057
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 49
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location:
Post: #7
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
You need to go in and read the minutes from the double secret exit fee meeting, that trumps any bylaws that are supposed to be available via the internet. Also the French Model rule comes into play with internet information.
03-01-2013 09:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Five Minute Google Expert
*

Posts: 16,359
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 996
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:56 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  You need to go in and read the minutes from the double secret exit fee meeting, that trumps any bylaws that are supposed to be available via the internet. Also the French Model rule comes into play with internet information.

After the Mutual Commitment Agreement trumped the Big East bylaws, I wouldn't be THAT surprised that the C-USA bylaws are trumped by the Secret Protocols of the Charter Members of C-USA.
03-01-2013 09:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CommuterBob Offline
Head Tailgater
*

Posts: 5,840
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 173
I Root For: UCF, Ohio State
Location:
Post: #9
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
The entry agreements specifcally say that the incoming schools are not to share in the NCAA distributions earned prior to joining, but that is the only revenue that is excluded.

The actual text (courtesy of the Memphis agreement http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/...5045.pdf):

Quote:8. Following the Effective Date [July 1, 2013], the University will share in all revenues generated and earned by the Conference on the same terms and conditions as existing members, including participating in the Conference's incentive-based revenue distribution arrangements, provided the University will not share in the NCAA men's tournament revenue distributions earned prior to the Effective Date by the existing Conference schools.

And FWIW - the Big East revenue distribution for the NCAA tournament is included in this document as well (all amounts are cumulative):

1st round - $300K Men's, $100K Women's
2nd round - $400K Men's, $150K Women's
Sweet 16 - $550K Men's, $200K Women's
Elite 8 - $800K Men's, $250K Women's
Final Four - $1.1M Men's, $550K Women's

So for those thinking DePaul gets a huge windfall from NCAA tourney units, well, that just is not true, at least for current year participation. Not sure if this applies to past year credits paid, though.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 10:09 AM by CommuterBob.)
03-01-2013 10:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CommuterBob Offline
Head Tailgater
*

Posts: 5,840
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 173
I Root For: UCF, Ohio State
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 09:44 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU and SMU will not get off that lightly.

Why not? All the reports I've seen are that it's $500,000 plus losses from the TV deal. (I've seen the charter member thing plenty of times, but only on message boards, no offense.) There are no losses from the TV deal. So what are UCF, SMU and ECU paying and why?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tuls...ndbook.pdf

CUSA has been insitent (at least in their information to the press) that each school will be paying the full 5 years of TV revenue. That might just be posturing from the conference, but that's where the $6.5M each figures have originated. There have been several different interpretations of the exit fee from many people. I have seen some that insist that the full fee is due and some that insist that only the $500K is due. I know Memphis's AD was quoted a few days ago as saying they are only looking at $1.7M. I have heard rumblings from UCF that they are anticipating paying much less than $6.5M, but the final number has not been released.
03-01-2013 10:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PaulDel2 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 605
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 30
I Root For: Sothern Miss
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 09:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 09:44 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU and SMU will not get off that lightly.

Why not? All the reports I've seen are that it's $500,000 plus losses from the TV deal. (I've seen the charter member thing plenty of times, but only on message boards, no offense.) There are no losses from the TV deal. So what are UCF, SMU and ECU paying and why?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tuls...ndbook.pdf

What you are not including is the $5 million surety bond that has to be posted for a period of several years (until the next TV deal is negotiated) after which the bond would pay the decrease in TV revenue, if any, resulting from the withdrawal. If the surety pays anything, they have the right, and will exercise it, to recover all that they pay from the school for whom they posted the bond. So, it is not just $500,000. The actual amount will not be known for years.
03-01-2013 10:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


apex_pirate Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,820
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 95
I Root For: East Carolina
Location:
Post: #12
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 10:03 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  The entry agreements specifcally say that the incoming schools are not to share in the NCAA distributions earned prior to joining, but that is the only revenue that is excluded.

The actual text (courtesy of the Memphis agreement http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/...5045.pdf):

Quote:8. Following the Effective Date [July 1, 2013], the University will share in all revenues generated and earned by the Conference on the same terms and conditions as existing members, including participating in the Conference's incentive-based revenue distribution arrangements, provided the University will not share in the NCAA men's tournament revenue distributions earned prior to the Effective Date by the existing Conference schools.

And FWIW - the Big East revenue distribution for the NCAA tournament is included in this document as well (all amounts are cumulative):

1st round - $300K Men's, $100K Women's
2nd round - $400K Men's, $150K Women's
Sweet 16 - $550K Men's, $200K Women's
Elite 8 - $800K Men's, $250K Women's
Final Four - $1.1M Men's, $550K Women's

So for those thinking DePaul gets a huge windfall from NCAA tourney units, well, that just is not true, at least for current year participation. Not sure if this applies to past year credits paid, though.

Well, if this is the case you can see why the incoming schools would be ok with the sale of the name in exchange for more of the Realignment Fund.

It also makes sense to have ECU and Tuland come in 2013 so that the distributions are even and all schools get the same financial footing from the beginning. It appears the new conference is trying to mimic the SEC's stance on revenue sharing. The SEC is one of, if not the most stable conferences out there. The PAC is too. I beleive they also have equal revenue sharing.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 10:16 AM by apex_pirate.)
03-01-2013 10:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AndreWhere Offline
Banned

Posts: 6,189
Joined: Dec 2009
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location: DunwoodY
Post: #13
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
I think it's silly discussing all of these money-related minutiae. Everyone knows the pecking order, and that's all that matters. CUSA is not going to get rich off of exit fees and leap over the whatchamacallit conference, any more than the Sun Belt is going to do it to CUSA or the ACC is going to do it to the Big 10.
03-01-2013 10:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Five Minute Google Expert
*

Posts: 16,359
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 996
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #14
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 10:10 AM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 09:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 09:44 AM)Eagleweiser Wrote:  Exit fees for Charter members Memphis, Tulane and Houston will be 500K, ECU and SMU will not get off that lightly.

Why not? All the reports I've seen are that it's $500,000 plus losses from the TV deal. (I've seen the charter member thing plenty of times, but only on message boards, no offense.) There are no losses from the TV deal. So what are UCF, SMU and ECU paying and why?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tuls...ndbook.pdf

What you are not including is the $5 million surety bond that has to be posted for a period of several years (until the next TV deal is negotiated) after which the bond would pay the decrease in TV revenue, if any, resulting from the withdrawal.

But there is no decrease. Fox and CBS are still paying out $14M a year. They have to post the bond, but they get that money back.

Quote:The actual amount will not be known for years.

There aren't any damages for 2013-14, 2014-15 or 2015-16. Well, I guess it's possible that there will be, that CBS and/or Fox will reduce the amount for those years and it just hasn't been announced.

Can there be any damages for the years after the contract expires?
03-01-2013 10:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 46,240
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 725
I Root For: Sports
Location:
Post: #15
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
I think this is why we're goign to see ECU/Tulane leave this year

say it goes from 14 down to 11 million- kind of worst case scenario

if all 6 leave this year
3 million times 5 years=15 million. divide by 6- 2.5 million per school.

if 4 leave this year, ECU/Tulane next year
year 1
3 million divided by 4= 750k per school
years 2-5
12 million divided by 6=2 mil per school
year 6
3 million divided by 2=1.5 mil per school

so 4 leaving this year= 2.75 mil per school
2 leaving next year= 3.5 mil per school
(18 mil total since extra year)
03-01-2013 10:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tallgrass Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,396
Joined: Nov 2002
Reputation: 91
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #16
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
Paying an entry fee to Nbe is adding insult to injury.
03-01-2013 11:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
*

Posts: 36,249
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 617
I Root For: ECU Pirates,
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 11:00 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Paying an entry fee to Nbe is adding insult to injury.

HOLY SH**... I agree with Tallgrass 100000000000%
03-01-2013 11:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,186
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 71
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
I am so confused.........
03-01-2013 11:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 44,738
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 2860
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #19
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 11:27 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 11:00 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Paying an entry fee to Nbe is adding insult to injury.

HOLY SH**... I agree with Tallgrass 100000000000%

I know....this is maybe the third time in my life its happened....at most, lol.
03-01-2013 12:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
blazr Away
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,981
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation: 276
I Root For: UAB
Location: Nashville, TN
Post: #20
RE: Two Important Pieces of Information for Aresco League members
(03-01-2013 10:16 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  I think it's silly discussing all of these money-related minutiae. Everyone knows the pecking order, and that's all that matters. CUSA is not going to get rich off of exit fees and leap over the whatchamacallit conference, any more than the Sun Belt is going to do it to CUSA or the ACC is going to do it to the Big 10.

It is silly if the goal is to argue nBE vs. CUSA vs. MWC.

It's not silly at all, in fact it is of paramount importance, when you consider the other option on the table - create a Western Conf (name it what you like, but leveraging MWC's existence is the most efficient cost- and process-wise) and create an Eastern Conf (ditto the previous). Hell, leverage MWC and CUSA but get members to agree to a name change...makes no difference.

The above is going to happen eventually. Do it now and everyone can chill out for a bit.
03-01-2013 12:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.