141 years without a single national championship. Your self esteem problems are evident.

(04-27-2013 10:53 AM)wahoowa Wrote:  

I thought I would post again just to keep those statistics you posted up again. Glad to have another UVa poster here, especially that new fans are coming to this board now from the new member schools. They need to be properly educated as you are helping to do, Wahoowa.

(04-27-2013 05:02 PM)cavman Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 10:53 AM)wahoowa Wrote:  

I thought I would post again just to keep those statistics you posted up again. Glad to have another UVa poster here, especially that new fans are coming to this board now from the new member schools. They need to be properly educated as you are helping to do, Wahoowa.

VT is 16-4 against UVA over the last 20 years.

Gobbler Spur Hurts doesn't it.

FS, you're getting repetitive my friend...

Since Wahoowa and Cavman like facts and insist on educating the new members of the ACC I am willing to oblige.

UVA's 19 national championships are in the following sports:
Men's Soccer
Men's Lacrosse
Women's Lacrosse
Women's Cross Country
Rowing
Boxing (Discontinued by the NCAA)

I'm not so sure I would brag about winning 19 national championships in the aforementioned sports.

Let's talk football

UVA has won 2 Co-Championships in football 1989 and 1995 in the ACC
UVA has been invited to 18 bowl games

VT has won 3 Big East Championships 1995, 1996, 1999
VT has won 4 ACC Championships 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010
VT has won 5 ACC Coastal Division Championships 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011
VT has been invited to play in 26 Bowl Games
VT is 16-4 against UVA over the last 20 years

This thread is not panning out as the OP planned.

(04-28-2013 12:12 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  This thread is not panning out as the OP planned.

Kind of like Maryland is not going to pan out in the B1G.

(04-27-2013 09:17 PM)FlamingSword Wrote:  Since Wahoowa and Cavman like facts and insist on educating the new members of the ACC I am willing to oblige.

UVA's 19 national championships are in the following sports:
Men's Soccer
Men's Lacrosse
Women's Lacrosse
Women's Cross Country
Rowing
Boxing (Discontinued by the NCAA)

I'm not so sure I would brag about winning 19 national championships in the aforementioned sports.

Hey, I'm down with lax and boxing!

(04-27-2013 09:17 PM)FlamingSword Wrote:  I'm not so sure I would brag about winning 19 national championships in the aforementioned sports.

That's because you can't brag about any national championship in any sport after 141 years of failure.

FlamingSword wants to just talk football so let's look at that. In total ACC football championships it's Tech 4 and UVa 2. Congratulations. You have two more.
Hope you enjoy that slim lead because it's not likely to change much. Here's why.
We will look at in ten year segments:

1982-1991 was the last decade before FSU began participating in the league. Clemson dominated championships by winning five plus was undefeated in ACC in 1983 but was ineligible for the title (so Maryland got it despite losing to Clemson). Maryland won two more, GaTech 1, and UVa and Duke tied for one. In that decade UVa emerged as one of the top football programs in the conference, even ranked number 1 in the nation, and likely destined for more ACC football championships (along with GaTech and Clemson) had not FSU entered the picture.

1992-2001 FSU won 9 championships but two of those were shared titles with UVa and GaTech. FSU was also twice national champion. UVa was competitive at the top of the league for most of the decade until coach Welsh retired.

2002-2011, FSU probably would have continued to dominate but 2 new teams came into the league in 2004 from the Big East where in the previous decade Miami had won 7 Big East titles, VaTech 3 (sharing 2 with Miami). But Miami in fact had just won a national title in 2001 after winning four national titles in the previous decade. But then in the ACC Miami entered a down cycle and coaching changes and in the vacuume, VaTech took 4 ACC titles, FSU 3, and Clemson won in the final year. Besides Miami, former ACC programs of Clemson, UVa and GaTech all slipped in this period due to coaching changes and other factors and this allowed VaTech to emerge under the consistent leadership of coach Beamer.

In 2012-2021 FSU won the first title and seems to be remerging to its former strength as is Clemson. Now that Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburg enter the league, along with potential re-emergence of Miami, UVa and GaTech, it seems unlikely that VaTech will take many title if any again, especially if coach Beamer soon retires and Tech goes through a down-cycle as the others have done.

The bottom line is that VaTech would never have gotten into the ACC without UVa's willingness to demand it (if you know your history of the scenario), and ACC went through a period that was an opportune time for VaTech to prosper for a decade or so, but it is very likely that it will never succeed to win ACC titles quite so much again with all the new programs joining in or the older programs returning to strength under new coaches.

VaTech and UVa in the next decade will likely both compete for a chance at a title but perhaps only win once or maybe twice at the most. The competition is just going to be too good for much more.

That, in my opinion, is the likely scenario in the next decade or so, but my hope as a fan, is as I said in an earlier post: that both UVa and Tech become among the top few programs in the ACC and winning the state of Virginia is the ticket to win the ACC. Thus the Cavalier-Hokie game becomes among the most exciting rivalries in the nation. And whoever among them that wins the ACC also has a decent shot at being in a playoff for the national championship.

(04-28-2013 02:19 PM)cavman Wrote:  FlamingSword wants to just talk football so let's look at that. In total ACC football championships it's Tech 4 and UVa 2. Congratulations. You have two more.
Hope you enjoy that slim lead because it's not likely to change much. Here's why.
We will look at in ten year segments:

1982-1991 was the last decade before FSU began participating in the league. Clemson dominated championships by winning five plus was undefeated in ACC in 1983 but was ineligible for the title (so Maryland got it despite losing to Clemson). Maryland won two more, GaTech 1, and UVa and Duke tied for one. In that decade UVa emerged as one of the top football programs in the conference, even ranked number 1 in the nation, and likely destined for more ACC football championships (along with GaTech and Clemson) had not FSU entered the picture.

1992-2001 FSU won 9 championships but two of those were shared titles with UVa and GaTech. FSU was also twice national champion. UVa was competitive at the top of the league for most of the decade until coach Welsh retired.

2002-2011, FSU probably would have continued to dominate but 2 new teams came into the league in 2004 from the Big East where in the previous decade Miami had won 7 Big East titles, VaTech 3 (sharing 2 with Miami). But Miami in fact had just won a national title in 2001 after winning four national titles in the previous decade. But then in the ACC Miami entered a down cycle and coaching changes and in the vacuume, VaTech took 4 ACC titles, FSU 3, and Clemson won in the final year. Besides Miami, former ACC programs of Clemson, UVa and GaTech all slipped in this period due to coaching changes and other factors and this allowed VaTech to emerge under the consistent leadership of coach Beamer.

In 2012-2021 FSU won the first title and seems to be remerging to its former strength as is Clemson. Now that Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburg enter the league, along with potential re-emergence of Miami, UVa and GaTech, it seems unlikely that VaTech will take many title if any again, especially if coach Beamer soon retires and Tech goes through a down-cycle as the others have done.

The bottom line is that VaTech would never have gotten into the ACC without UVa's willingness to demand it (if you know your history of the scenario), and ACC went through a period that was an opportune time for VaTech to prosper for a decade or so, but it is very likely that it will never succeed to win ACC titles quite so much again with all the new programs joining in or the older programs returning to strength under new coaches.

VaTech and UVa in the next decade will likely both compete for a chance at a title but perhaps only win once or maybe twice at the most. The competition is just going to be too good for much more.

That, in my opinion, is the likely scenario in the next decade or so, but my hope as a fan, is as I said in an earlier post: that both UVa and Tech become among the top few programs in the ACC and winning the state of Virginia is the ticket to win the ACC. Thus the Cavalier-Hokie game becomes among the most exciting rivalries in the nation. And whoever among them that wins the ACC also has a decent shot at being in a playoff for the national championship.

I must correct you, UVA has 2 Co-Championships as in not outright championships.

Why do you assume that VT will have down years when Frank Beamer retires, you know what happens when you assume things.

Virginia Tech is already one of the top programs in the ACC, it's UVA that has a lot of work to do.

Wait until UVA has actually done something in the ACC before you attempt to defend UVA's football program.

I regret ever starting this thread because it's impossible for you UVA fans to defend your football program, it's kind of one sided. This becomes evident when UVA fans mention their 19 National Championships in soccer, lacrosse, cross country, rowing, and boxing.

Also you cannot ignore the 3 Big East Championships that VT won before joining the ACC.

However, UVA should try to win just 1 ACC championship or perhaps a Coastal Division title.

This is my last post on this thread, I should not have posted this thread it to begin with.

I commend the Hoo fans for turning out for this thread. With all the Hokies on this board, I figured this would be a one sided bash fest. Good to see the Hoos can carry their own. Carry on.

(04-28-2013 10:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I commend the Hoo fans for turning out for this thread. With all the Hokies on this board, I figured this would be a one sided bash fest. Good to see the Hoos can carry their own. Carry on.

I agree and w/ all due respect, I think the Hoos won this debate. Well done cavman & company. And I'm glad I let this thread play out rather than chasing FS off the board like the first few posters wanted. Great thread all the way around. We need more threads that can get heated w/out personal attacks.

(04-28-2013 11:00 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 10:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I commend the Hoo fans for turning out for this thread. With all the Hokies on this board, I figured this would be a one sided bash fest. Good to see the Hoos can carry their own. Carry on.

I agree and w/ all due respect, I think the Hoos won this debate. Well done cavman & company. And I'm glad I let this thread play out rather than chasing FS off the board like the first few posters wanted. Great thread all the way around. We need more threads that can get heated w/out personal attacks.

Thanks for the respect. And by the way, I don't agree with FlamingSword's own definition that a co-championship does not count, because that would by definition mean Tech only won one Big East title in 1999 since the other two were shared with Miami.
No, I fully recognize and commend VaTech's three Big East championships before coming to the ACC. And I respect that Syracuse and Pittsburg are coming into the league with seven (counting both outright and shared) Big East titles between them in the last 20 years.
And by the way, although Miami has won zero ACC football championships over the last 9 years since they joined the league, it would be insane to not respect them. They'll be back and it's gonna be a tougher conference for anybody to win, especially with Louisville joining also.

(04-29-2013 12:14 AM)cavman Wrote:  And by the way, I don't agree with FlamingSword's own definition that a co-championship does not count, because that would by definition mean Tech only won one Big East title in 1999 since the other two were shared with Miami.

Tech wasn't in the Big East in the 90's ... or ever.

(04-28-2013 11:00 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 10:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I commend the Hoo fans for turning out for this thread. With all the Hokies on this board, I figured this would be a one sided bash fest. Good to see the Hoos can carry their own. Carry on.

I agree and w/ all due respect, I think the Hoos won this debate. Well done cavman & company. And I'm glad I let this thread play out rather than chasing FS off the board like the first few posters wanted. Great thread all the way around. We need more threads that can get heated w/out personal attacks.

You're pathetic as a moderator, if you think that the UVA fans won the argument you're crazy.

How can you argue with VT's 16-4 record against UVA over the last 20 years?

How can you argue with VT's success in the ACC since joining the league, Virginia's football program doesn't come close.

How exactly did they win the argument?

I now see why there are so few ACC fans on this board and like a true VT fan i'm "gone with the wind".

The ACCbbs is PATHETIC!

(04-28-2013 10:57 AM)wahoowa Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 09:17 PM)FlamingSword Wrote:  I'm not so sure I would brag about winning 19 national championships in the aforementioned sports.

That's because you can't brag about any national championship in any sport after 141 years of failure.

+1

(04-29-2013 12:58 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:14 AM)cavman Wrote:  And by the way, I don't agree with FlamingSword's own definition that a co-championship does not count, because that would by definition mean Tech only won one Big East title in 1999 since the other two were shared with Miami.

Tech wasn't in the Big East in the 90's ... or ever.

(04-29-2013 01:39 PM)FlamingSword Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 11:00 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 10:45 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I commend the Hoo fans for turning out for this thread. With all the Hokies on this board, I figured this would be a one sided bash fest. Good to see the Hoos can carry their own. Carry on.

I agree and w/ all due respect, I think the Hoos won this debate. Well done cavman & company. And I'm glad I let this thread play out rather than chasing FS off the board like the first few posters wanted. Great thread all the way around. We need more threads that can get heated w/out personal attacks.

You're pathetic as a moderator, if you think that the UVA fans won the argument you're crazy.

How can you argue with VT's 16-4 record against UVA over the last 20 years?

How can you argue with VT's success in the ACC since joining the league, Virginia's football program doesn't come close.

How exactly did they win the argument?

I now see why there are so few ACC fans on this board and like a true VT fan i'm "gone with the wind".

The ACCbbs is PATHETIC!

LOL WHAT TF

breaths a lil and has some

They won because they brought coherent points and didn't repeat the same fact that you beat to death (16-4 and multiple ACC ships). You gotta remember that there is still more to a conference than just football.

Adios, have fun. There are still a plethora of fantastic VT fans on the board.

Edit: What should I have done differently? Should I have just closed the thread and banned you for flaming? I don't work that way. I enjoy solid debates. Me thinks you're upset that Mr. Mod picked against you this one time. See you at Heinz