What's this I am hearing about the possibility of annual basketball and football games being played in Europe? I think that is an excellent idea! I don't know how logistically it would work, but I'd love to see it. What a great opportunity for the kids and athletic staff! And hopefully it would gain some greater brand recognition for the ACC.

I can understand some basketball games or even soccer just not sure about football. There are a few countries like Great Britain, France, Germany, and Austria that have clubs and did well in the U19 tourneys. I realized that FSU had a German national but he immigrated here. We are a decade or more away from actually recruiting players from Europe which would more than likely be lineman anyways.

I'm OK with one game involving an ACC team every other year. It would make the ACC somewhat well-known and individual schools would only lose 1 game every 28 years.

I'm even OK with schools being able to pay other ACC schools to go in their place if they don't want to lose a home game.

Maybe the ACC would send 1 soccer team every 3 years, 1 basketball team every 3 years, and 1 football team every 3 years. That would mean that there is an ACC team playing in Europe every year and individual schools lose 1 football game once every 42 years, 1 basketball game once every 45 years, and 1 soccer game once every 45 years. In the grand scheme of things, I think that the yearly game would get pretty good press for the conference and I think that it would be a great advertising opportunity for ACC schools/athletic departments, but it would not be too much of a commitment for any one individual school.

"We are a decade or more away from actually recruiting players from Europe which would more than likely be lineman anyways."

I think that most kids start following sports when they're around 8, and they get recruited when they're 17. Being one of the kid's first memories isn't a bad thing. However, I don't think that we should go over-board. Once every 3 years by 1/14 teams is enough.

If you play a football game in Europe, then you get to play 13 games that year. Think of it as a Kick Off Classic made for television event.

(04-30-2013 06:50 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  If you play a football game in Europe, then you get to play 13 games that year. Think of it as a Kick Off Classic made for television event.

Is it like playing Hawai'i? If so, that's not bad.

Even still I'm not sure how well any team would draw there. ND-Navy drew well because of the "Fighting Irish" moniker and the namesake of Navy. I'm unsure how well an Alabama-USC game would draw in say Madrid, Rome, or Lisbon. NFL can get away w/ games in London because the world watches the Super Bowl and has an idea who the biggest brands are. I think the best we could do is a 30-40K stadium as close to an military base as possible. The area's around bases are more prone to have club teams and some following. Places like a Frankfurt or Berlin Germany is where I'd play these games.

The same goes for basketball. Its easier to get away with because arena's hold less people than outdoor stadiums. I think we're better off sending 4-6 teams to Europe during the summer for a summer league and broadcast those games.

Sorry if I'm being a debbie downer. Most of us heard of a Man U or other major club soccer teams from Europe. But how many of us heard of 2nd tier club teams? How many of us would spend 3 hours to watch a 2nd tier club team here in the US. Soccer, ultimately, would be our best best to draw overseas games.

After what I said, as much as I say this may not work. I still love the idea and glad people are brainstorming. If its an opening week game, could use this as an opportunity to help coach younger kids for a week camp type thing. Just unsure how viable it will be.

HokieMark posted the rule in our other thread about this.


Here is the relevant rule:

17.9.5.2 -Annual Exemptions. [FBS/FCS]
The maximum number of football contests shall exclude the following:

(j) Foreign Tour. [FBS/FCS]
The football games played on a foreign tour, provided the tour occurs only once in a four-year period and is conducted by the member institution in accordance with the procedures set forth in Bylaw 30.7 (see Bylaw 17.29);

Here is the by-law:
17.29 FOREIGN TOURS
17.29.1 Institutionally Certified Tours. A member institution may participate in competition in any sport on foreign tours certified by the institution in accordance with procedures set forth under Bylaw 30.7. (Revised: 1/11/89, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97)

17.29.1.1 Contest Exclusions. Any contest or date of competition played on a certified foreign tour shall be excluded from the limitations set forth in this bylaw.

17.29.1.2 Timing of Tour. A foreign tour taken during the summer vacation period shall be considered to have occurred during the academic year after the summer for purposes of Bylaws 17 and 30.7. (Adopted: 1/9/96 effective
8/1/96)

17.29.1.3 Tour to U.S. Territory or Commonwealth. A tour to a U.S. commonwealth (e.g., Puerto Rico) or a U.S. territory (e.g., Virgin Islands) is not considered a foreign tour.

17.29.2 Outside-Team Tours. An outside team that includes student-athletes from more than one member institution may participate in international competition in any sport on a foreign tour. However, any such outside team that includes more than the following number of student-
athletes from the same member institution must be certified by the institution in accordance with procedures set forth in Bylaw 30.7. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 10/31/02)

Baseball - 4
Basketball - 2
Football - 5
Lacrosse - 5

I don't know how successful it will be. Wake drew some decent crowds in Japan the last time we did this back in the 1970's. So just the novelty of it could bring out some people for a little while at least. I think it would be kind of cool to play a basketball game in Lithuania. We used to have a nice pipeline of talent there including members of their Olympic bronze medal team.

To me, it's a clever way to either get some extra content for our network.

I think its far easier to draw football crowds in Japan, Mexico, and Samoa (if they have a stadium). Football is developing in Central America and South America but safety of the players/fans could be a potential issue.

From the U19 Championship last year...

France v Sweden

Looking at how well Europe supports American football... Germany is the only country that supported NFL Europa.

In NFL Europa's final season there were six teams. Five of which were in Germany. The NFL Europa should have changed its name to NFL Deutschland.

Average attendance in final season (2007).

Frankfurt Galaxy - 33,043
Rhein Fire - 24,473
Hamburg Sea Devils - 20,874
Berlin Thunder - 15,710
Cologne Centurions - 14,352
Amsterdam Admirals - 11,668

(04-30-2013 09:33 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Looking at how well Europe supports American football... Germany is the only country that supported NFL Europa.

In NFL Europa's final season there were six teams. Five of which were in Germany. The NFL Europa should have changed its name to NFL Deutschland.

Average attendance in final season (2007).

Frankfurt Galaxy - 33,043
Rhein Fire - 24,473
Hamburg Sea Devils - 20,874
Berlin Thunder - 15,710
Cologne Centurions - 14,352
Amsterdam Admirals - 11,668

Its admirable that the NFL is sticking it out. But they really need to bring this league home and call it NFL 2 or something like that. It would do great in cities like Rochester, and Louisville and Memphis and maybe Buffalo, once the Bills leave.

(04-30-2013 07:50 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Even still I'm not sure how well any team would draw there. ND-Navy drew well because of the "Fighting Irish" moniker and the namesake of Navy. I'm unsure how well an Alabama-USC game would draw in say Madrid, Rome, or Lisbon. NFL can get away w/ games in London because the world watches the Super Bowl and has an idea who the biggest brands are. I think the best we could do is a 30-40K stadium as close to an military base as possible. The area's around bases are more prone to have club teams and some following. Places like a Frankfurt or Berlin Germany is where I'd play these games.

The same goes for basketball. Its easier to get away with because arena's hold less people than outdoor stadiums. I think we're better off sending 4-6 teams to Europe during the summer for a summer league and broadcast those games.

Sorry if I'm being a debbie downer. Most of us heard of a Man U or other major club soccer teams from Europe. But how many of us heard of 2nd tier club teams? How many of us would spend 3 hours to watch a 2nd tier club team here in the US. Soccer, ultimately, would be our best best to draw overseas games.

After what I said, as much as I say this may not work. I still love the idea and glad people are brainstorming. If its an opening week game, could use this as an opportunity to help coach younger kids for a week camp type thing. Just unsure how viable it will be.

Oh, I don't think that we are going to pack any stadiums. I just think that we are going to get some decent publicity. My guess is that we would get some ex-pats, some random fans, a couple of study abroad kids, a handful of people who are just bored, and some showing from the local community because of the novelty appeal. Like I said earlier, I don't want the ACC to make a huge investment in Europe, but I do think that we should keep some feelers out there. If the sport ever grows in Europe, I would like to have the first mover advantage.

I know Terry is a ND fan because his family has been ND fans for generations. I would like to start somehting like that with the ACC in Eurpoe before everyone over there gets an opinion. It is much easier to convince a neutral person to be a fan than it is to convince someone who already has a team.

EDIT:
*I also think that there are academic advantages in the form of better academic recruitment from the talent-rich pool that is Europe and I can see how having a better name recognition might lead to improved study abroad resources.

*Playing novelty games in Eurpoe also leads to buzz in the United States. If nothing else, it will mean that every national sports show in the country mentions the game once a day for the week leading up to it and the weel after is. .

*I also think that it would be a good experience for the players. Unfortunately, they often get ignored in today's game, whihc seems to be money-driven. This would be a way of givign them a treat in the form of a once in a lifetime experience.

(04-30-2013 09:19 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  From the U19 Championship last year...

France v Sweden

That stadium was PACKED. I don't even think that all of the parents and girlfriends went to the game.
...but to be fair, outside of people who live in Texas and actual high schoolers, who goes to high school games in this country?

(04-30-2013 09:47 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 09:33 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Looking at how well Europe supports American football... Germany is the only country that supported NFL Europa.

In NFL Europa's final season there were six teams. Five of which were in Germany. The NFL Europa should have changed its name to NFL Deutschland.

Average attendance in final season (2007).

Frankfurt Galaxy - 33,043
Rhein Fire - 24,473
Hamburg Sea Devils - 20,874
Berlin Thunder - 15,710
Cologne Centurions - 14,352
Amsterdam Admirals - 11,668

Its admirable that the NFL is sticking it out. But they really need to bring this league home and call it NFL 2 or something like that. It would do great in cities like Rochester, and Louisville and Memphis and maybe Buffalo, once the Bills leave.

Nah, it's defunct now.

Rochester has been pitched to the CFL before; after the Arena Football League (it's now back) and NFL Europa folded. Some former NFL and Arena League player proposed Rochester and Detroit as targets. The CFL has multiple Canadian cities clamoring for a CFL team, so I doubt the CFL would go for it. Besides the AFL has returned.

(04-30-2013 09:59 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 09:19 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  From the U19 Championship last year...

France v Sweden

That stadium was PACKED. I don't even think that all of the parents and girlfriends went to the game.
...but to be fair, outside of people who live in Texas and actual high schoolers, who goes to high school games in this country?

Clairton people do... Our town has bout 6K residents and our average home game is about 5-6K

I don't think soccer would fly at all. They have a ton of soccer now and they play at a much higher level. They are not going to pay money to watch the equivalent of little league soccer.

I think this is a promotional tool for the league and the ACC network. I don't think the intent is to have regularly scheduled games or to fill stadiums. EU-eers love soccer. If you have too many games the novelty wears off and you will lose their attention.

You could also promote other sports at the same time. You could have a LAX demo at a basketball game. I know there are restrictions on practices, etc. Details to be worked out.