I can't blame the ASU and even the ULL fans for coming over here after being left behind. As a Tech fan we have been there a couple of times. I was really excited about joining CUSA and being in conference with USM, ECU, Tulsa (again), Rice (again) and others and can understand what your are saying about the ODU fans but you say the same things about Tech on the Sunbelt boards even though we have a far better history in FB than both of your schools.

ODU sells 20k season tickets and has a waiting list so it probably won't be long before they pass us up anyway. That said I have been impressed with ASU and ULL's programs lately and think ASU would be a good addition to CUSA at some point in the future. They bring a new state to the conference.

But in the end I am going to back up my fellow conference brother in ODU because of their huge upside. Of course we will be beating them on the field in Ruston and in VA!

(05-18-2013 11:24 PM)winston70 Wrote:  I can't blame the ASU and even the ULL fans for coming over here after being left behind. As a Tech fan we have been there a couple of times. I was really excited about joining CUSA and being in conference with USM, ECU, Tulsa (again), Rice (again) and others and can understand what your are saying about the ODU fans but you say the same things about Tech on the Sunbelt boards even though we have a far better history in FB than both of your schools.

ODU sells 20k season tickets and has a waiting list so it probably won't be long before they pass us up anyway. That said I have been impressed with ASU and ULL's programs lately and think ASU would be a good addition to CUSA at some point in the future. They bring a new state to the conference.

But in the end I am going to back up my fellow conference brother in ODU because if their huge upside. Of course we will be beating them on the field in Ruston and in VA!

Forgot to add Marshall in FB and UAB in BB too.

(05-18-2013 11:24 PM)winston70 Wrote:  and can understand what your are saying about the ODU fans but you say the same things about Tech on the Sunbelt boards even though we have a far better history in FB than both of your schools.

I've been fairly consistent in saying that the LaTech choice will probably turn out to be CUSA's best move of this round. Bankowsky catches a lot of flack, but veering away from his market strategy to take LaTech probably saved this realignment.

Let's be clear. stAte fans and LaTech fans have no love for each other. It goes back a long time and includes bench clearing brawls and very few kind words. We don't like each other most of the time.

But that is far different because we have a history with each other and a shared history in FBS. Neither one of us are just talking out of our blowholes.

(05-18-2013 11:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 11:24 PM)winston70 Wrote:  and can understand what your are saying about the ODU fans but you say the same things about Tech on the Sunbelt boards even though we have a far better history in FB than both of your schools.

I've been fairly consistent in saying that the LaTech choice will probably turn out to be CUSA's best move of this round. Bankowsky catches a lot of flack, but veering away from his market strategy to take LaTech probably saved this realignment.

Let's be clear. stAte fans and LaTech fans have no love for each other. It goes back a long time and includes bench clearing brawls and very few kind words. We don't like each other most of the time.

But that is far different because we have a history with each other and a shared history in FBS. Neither one of us are just talking out of our blowholes.

Good post and I agree that markets are making conferences make some bad decisions. I would much rather watch a Troy team in the middle of nowhere AL play Missou with a chance for an upset than GSU get blown out by a similar AQ team. That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

Conference realignment has kind of ruined for all of us - I used really enjoy pulling for all of the non-AQ schools but now I don't as much.

This will all settle down (relatively). This has been a period of upheaval with a ton of schools making moves across all conferences. But it's not any more different or worse than the Big East losing VT, Miami, FSU and BC and all the realignment that ensued. It's not any worse than the SEC taking SC and Arkansas, the SWC collapsing and everything that came after that. It will be fine and in 5 years we will do it again.

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

(05-19-2013 07:24 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

I haven't noticed that. I have noticed that a lot of fans from long time mediocre teams like to call fans of new programs arrogant because they're excited, however.

(05-19-2013 08:48 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 07:24 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

I haven't noticed that. I have noticed that a lot of fans from long time mediocre teams like to call fans of new programs arrogant because they're excited, however.

There is a difference in being excited and trashing other programs as inferior because you've been given a chance to play FBS.

(05-19-2013 08:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 08:48 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 07:24 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

I haven't noticed that. I have noticed that a lot of fans from long time mediocre teams like to call fans of new programs arrogant because they're excited, however.

There is a difference in being excited and trashing other programs as inferior because you've been given a chance to play FBS.

I haven't seen that unless it has been a recent occurrence. Honestly the only move up I've seen do that is Georgia Southern

I don't agree with some of the comments made by ODU fans. However, I must admit that ODU does bring more value to CUSA than stAte and ULL. Notice I said value therefore I'm not referring to merely two good years of football. This is important to note since every school in the Sun Belt at some point had a good 1-3 year run but can't sustain success. That's the reason why realignment played out the way it did. Schools can't simply be invited for having a good year or two in football. The schools invited to join CUSA simply had more to offer than the ones left out. That's the reality.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what we say or believe. It's all about money. Would an invite to stAte or ULL bring more money to the league to make it worth while? I doubt it.

(05-19-2013 08:48 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 07:24 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

I haven't noticed that. I have noticed that a lot of fans from long time mediocre teams like to call fans of new programs arrogant because they're excited, however.

I've been speaking against anti-FCS bias for a while. I advocated for the Sun Belt to add UTSA and TXST early. I've made the case on the Belt board why FCS move-up status is only a temporary perception.

I have a pretty fair track record on the subject. I'm about as far as any on the subject of move-ups.

I really don't give a flip if Charlotte, GaSo, App State, ODU or whoever make claims that they will win their new conference in two years. I don't really care when they claim that they will win be winning major bowl games and whooping the big boys within 4 years. I've heard all that from fans of every one of those schools and it's funny but harmless.

But there is a difference between that and being a snooty douche and claiming superiority over programs who have been in the FBS fight for years when you haven't even played a game.

The claim is that ASU and ULL are mediocre and worthless from a bad conference and bring nothing.

If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins.

Don't get me wrong. I respect WKU very much. Their transition, as painful as it was, was done well. Even during their horrible stretch you knew you were in for a real fight on the field. Their players never really gave up during those years. They deserved a bowl that they weren't invited to. WKU has paid their FBS dues in full.

The only reason I point this out is to point out how illogical it is for someone to be high and mighty about having WKU in their conference while simultaneously claiming that ASU and ULL are nothing. To point out ASU and ULL's FBS history while not applying the same standards to others in their own conference are just attempts at puffery....or trolling.

A fan of a school that has never played a down of football saying that a back-to-back FBS conference champion and FBS bowl winner has a mediocre history is absurd. Absurd and stupid. But mostly absurd.

(05-19-2013 09:00 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 08:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 08:48 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 07:24 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:11 AM)winston70 Wrote:  That said I think ODU was one of the better FCS additions CUSA could have made. Time will tell though.

I don't have anything against ODU, they have as good a shot at success as any other school moving up. Some of their fans have issues though.

I haven't noticed that. I have noticed that a lot of fans from long time mediocre teams like to call fans of new programs arrogant because they're excited, however.

There is a difference in being excited and trashing other programs as inferior because you've been given a chance to play FBS.

I haven't seen that unless it has been a recent occurrence. Honestly the only move up I've seen do that is Georgia Southern

I'm not sure whether Georgia Southern fans seriously believe their schtick, or are just trying to be as outrageous and over the top as they possibly can.

I'm leaning toward the latter...a little.

(05-19-2013 09:50 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins.

FIU, FAU, UNT had conference championships, bowl win, and bowl appearances but you never defended your former conference mates from similar or even worst comments from Appy State and GaSo fans on the sun belt board. (Which I found strange as including MTSU and WKU represents 5 of your wins). If you agree with your new conference mates that the departing schools are weak, then the belt was weak and the ODU posters are correct in their assessment.

(05-19-2013 11:22 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 09:50 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins.

FIU, FAU, UNT had conference championships, bowl win, and bowl appearances but you never defended your former conference mates from similar or even worst comments from Appy State and GaSo fans on the sun belt board. (Which I found strange as including MTSU and WKU represents 5 of your wins). If you agree with your new conference mates that the departing schools are weak, then the belt was weak and the ODU posters are correct in their assessment.

Just yesterday I face-palmed a GaSo poster on the Belt board who was trashing UNT...and praised Bankowsky's strategy....so your characterization is not entirely accurate.

Like I told the LaTech guy, we have a shared history and can argue with one another and it is different than someone who's school hasn't played a down in FBS yet.

I've been pretty consistent in defending UNT for instance. People talk about UNT being weak yet part of that weakness was being left on an island by the SBC. The CUSA move makes sense for them and they have a good shot at changing their fortunes.

My take on FIU wasn't quite the same, and that irked you. You were chosen for market potential and you argued that you were chosen for sports prowess. Of course LaTech fans have gotten sort of irritated at me for saying they were chosen for sports prowess and not Shreveport. We don't have to agree...but the fact is that we have beaten you and you have beaten us so we at least have the juice to talk about each others programs.

As for App State and GaSo they have taken plenty of flak on the Sun Belt board (and laughter) about their claims. They've been told many times that an FCS National Championship means diddly-squat now...yet some of them think we are joshing.

"If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins."


Missing just two things:
1. ASU has been FBS several more years than WKU , so we have not had as long to win bowl games and championships.

2. Maybe CUSA is glad to have WKU in because in addition to our FBS Football our basketball success is greater than any team that has ever been in CUSA minus Louisville. (not to mention our olympic sports)

This is a list of top Men's Division I college basketball teams ranked by the number of wins through the end of the 2012–13 season:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tea...basketball


Seasons Wins Losses %
1 Kentucky 1903 110 2111 661 .762
2 Kansas 1899 115 2101 812 .721
3 North Car 1911 103 2090 745 .737
4 Duke 1906 108 2001 840 .704
5 Syracuse 1901 112 1874 832 .693
6 Temple 1895 117 1814 992 .646
7 St. John's 1908 106 1754 931 .653
8 UCLA 1920 94 1753 779 .692
9 Notre Dam 1898 108 1748 949 .648
10 Indiana 1901 113 1719 966 .640
11 Penn 1897 113 1706 1020 .626
12 Louisville 1912 99 1697 869 .661
13 BYU 1903 111 1690 1026 .622
14 Illinois 1906 108 1690 910 .650
15 Utah 1909 105 1685 936 .643
16 Wash 1896 111 1683 1095 .606
17 Texas 1906 107 1675 994 .628
18 WKU 1915 94 1675 844 .665

(05-19-2013 12:02 PM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  "If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins."


Missing just two things:
1. ASU has been FBS several more years than WKU , so we have not had as long to win bowl games and championships.

2. Maybe CUSA is glad to have WKU in because in addition to our FBS Football our basketball success is greater than any team that has ever been in CUSA minus Louisville. (not to mention our olympic sports)

This is a list of top Men's Division I college basketball teams ranked by the number of wins through the end of the 2012–13 season:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tea...basketball


Seasons Wins Losses %
1 Kentucky 1903 110 2111 661 .762
2 Kansas 1899 115 2101 812 .721
3 North Car 1911 103 2090 745 .737
4 Duke 1906 108 2001 840 .704
5 Syracuse 1901 112 1874 832 .693
6 Temple 1895 117 1814 992 .646
7 St. John's 1908 106 1754 931 .653
8 UCLA 1920 94 1753 779 .692
9 Notre Dam 1898 108 1748 949 .648
10 Indiana 1901 113 1719 966 .640
11 Penn 1897 113 1706 1020 .626
12 Louisville 1912 99 1697 869 .661
13 BYU 1903 111 1690 1026 .622
14 Illinois 1906 108 1690 910 .650
15 Utah 1909 105 1685 936 .643
16 Wash 1896 111 1683 1095 .606
17 Texas 1906 107 1675 994 .628
18 WKU 1915 94 1675 844 .665

I was waiting for a WKU fan to take offense even though what I said shouldn't be taken as an offense and wasn't intended as one.

I haven't criticized CUSA's taking WKU and fully understand why they did.

I also praise WKU's transition to FBS. I also agree that WKU has fully paid its FBS dues. I also praise WKU football fans for having class during realignment.

My using WKU as an example was for the purpose of showing the ODU fan's double-standard.

I am not going to get into an argument with a WKU fan because WKU is legit and there is no need for argument.

(05-19-2013 11:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 11:22 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 09:50 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins.

FIU, FAU, UNT had conference championships, bowl win, and bowl appearances but you never defended your former conference mates from similar or even worst comments from Appy State and GaSo fans on the sun belt board. (Which I found strange as including MTSU and WKU represents 5 of your wins). If you agree with your new conference mates that the departing schools are weak, then the belt was weak and the ODU posters are correct in their assessment.

Just yesterday I face-palmed a GaSo poster on the Belt board who was trashing UNT...and praised Bankowsky's strategy....so your characterization is not entirely accurate.

Like I told the LaTech guy, we have a shared history and can argue with one another and it is different than someone who's school hasn't played a down in FBS yet.

I've been pretty consistent in defending UNT for instance. People talk about UNT being weak yet part of that weakness was being left on an island by the SBC. The CUSA move makes sense for them and they have a good shot at changing their fortunes.

My take on FIU wasn't quite the same, and that irked you. You were chosen for market potential and you argued that you were chosen for sports prowess. Of course LaTech fans have gotten sort of irritated at me for saying they were chosen for sports prowess and not Shreveport. We don't have to agree...but the fact is that we have beaten you and you have beaten us so we at least have the juice to talk about each others programs.

As for App State and GaSo they have taken plenty of flak on the Sun Belt board (and laughter) about their claims. They've been told many times that an FCS National Championship means diddly-squat now...yet some of them think we are joshing.

My point is that a lot of the recent smack thrown out about the sun belt comes from smack thrown at the departing sun belt members, just like your backhanded swipe at WKU earlier. You can't claim that half your conference are dogs and then claim that you are the greatest program ever because more than half of your wins are results against dogs. You are as good as your opposition.

Second, it is true that you have been playing ball for more than a century. After a century of students growing up knowing you play ball, one of only two FBS programs in your state, comparing 27k fans to 20k for a 4 year program is not the strongest argument.

That said, personally I would prefer we stay at 14. If we have to expand I think stAte is a much better add than JMU.

While odu fans may be a lil over the top. We have been at the top of caa for a long time. Vcu and gmu were great teams who added allot to the caa. But I do think we are excited about our chances and left caa for good reasons. Odu has added some good assistants and we are gearing up to be one of the top in this conference too.

Just like our teams they aren't coming in quietly so neither are their fans. We want to play ball have a great time with visiting team fans when the whistles blows. When its over and done same thing. We carry pride for what has been accomplished in a few years and with basketball.

(05-19-2013 12:16 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 12:02 PM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  "If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins."


Missing just two things:
1. ASU has been FBS several more years than WKU , so we have not had as long to win bowl games and championships.

2. Maybe CUSA is glad to have WKU in because in addition to our FBS Football our basketball success is greater than any team that has ever been in CUSA minus Louisville. (not to mention our olympic sports)

This is a list of top Men's Division I college basketball teams ranked by the number of wins through the end of the 2012–13 season:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tea...basketball


Seasons Wins Losses %
1 Kentucky 1903 110 2111 661 .762
2 Kansas 1899 115 2101 812 .721
3 North Car 1911 103 2090 745 .737
4 Duke 1906 108 2001 840 .704
5 Syracuse 1901 112 1874 832 .693
6 Temple 1895 117 1814 992 .646
7 St. John's 1908 106 1754 931 .653
8 UCLA 1920 94 1753 779 .692
9 Notre Dam 1898 108 1748 949 .648
10 Indiana 1901 113 1719 966 .640
11 Penn 1897 113 1706 1020 .626
12 Louisville 1912 99 1697 869 .661
13 BYU 1903 111 1690 1026 .622
14 Illinois 1906 108 1690 910 .650
15 Utah 1909 105 1685 936 .643
16 Wash 1896 111 1683 1095 .606
17 Texas 1906 107 1675 994 .628
18 WKU 1915 94 1675 844 .665

I was waiting for a WKU fan to take offense even though what I said shouldn't be taken as an offense and wasn't intended as one.

I haven't criticized CUSA's taking WKU and fully understand why they did.

I also praise WKU's transition to FBS. I also agree that WKU has fully paid its FBS dues. I also praise WKU football fans for having class during realignment.

My using WKU as an example was for the purpose of showing the ODU fan's double-standard.

I am not going to get into an argument with a WKU fan because WKU is legit and there is no need for argument.

He did not take offense to it. He just addressed the questions YOU raised. I think CUSA took wku for four reasons:

1: Budget, of the teams on the table, wku has the largest budget and supports the most sports. This increases our likelihood for success on the field through adequate support.

2: History of success. WKU has historically been a winner in many sports. Particularly in Men's and Women's basketball.

3: Rapid FBS Transition. Once we got on the field and broke our streak, we made a quick transition into bowl eligibility, then on to a bowl. We went from 0-12 to 7-6 in only four years. We have the ability and the potential to succeed at a high level.

4: Exceptional geographic fit. This is self explanatory as we helped to reduce some miles for Marshall and ODU. Not to mention holding on to the rivalry.

(05-19-2013 12:26 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 11:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 11:22 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 09:50 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  If ASU's history is mediocre....what is WKU's history? ASU has more success in FBS than WKU with conference championships, a bowl win, more bowl appearances and better attendance. WKU is from the EXACT SAME conference as ASU and ULL and WKU really struggled in it for a while. Their best years in that allegedly horrible, horrible, sucky conference were 7 wins, no championships, no bowl wins.

FIU, FAU, UNT had conference championships, bowl win, and bowl appearances but you never defended your former conference mates from similar or even worst comments from Appy State and GaSo fans on the sun belt board. (Which I found strange as including MTSU and WKU represents 5 of your wins). If you agree with your new conference mates that the departing schools are weak, then the belt was weak and the ODU posters are correct in their assessment.

Just yesterday I face-palmed a GaSo poster on the Belt board who was trashing UNT...and praised Bankowsky's strategy....so your characterization is not entirely accurate.

Like I told the LaTech guy, we have a shared history and can argue with one another and it is different than someone who's school hasn't played a down in FBS yet.

I've been pretty consistent in defending UNT for instance. People talk about UNT being weak yet part of that weakness was being left on an island by the SBC. The CUSA move makes sense for them and they have a good shot at changing their fortunes.

My take on FIU wasn't quite the same, and that irked you. You were chosen for market potential and you argued that you were chosen for sports prowess. Of course LaTech fans have gotten sort of irritated at me for saying they were chosen for sports prowess and not Shreveport. We don't have to agree...but the fact is that we have beaten you and you have beaten us so we at least have the juice to talk about each others programs.

As for App State and GaSo they have taken plenty of flak on the Sun Belt board (and laughter) about their claims. They've been told many times that an FCS National Championship means diddly-squat now...yet some of them think we are joshing.

My point is that a lot of the recent smack thrown out about the sun belt comes from smack thrown at the departing sun belt members, just like your backhanded swipe at WKU earlier. You can't claim that half your conference are dogs and then claim that you are the greatest program ever because more than half of your wins are results against dogs. You are as good as your opposition.

Second, it is true that you have been playing ball for more than a century. After a century of students growing up knowing you play ball, one of only two FBS programs in your state, comparing 27k fans to 20k for a 4 year program is not the strongest argument.

That said, personally I would prefer we stay at 14. If we have to expand I think stAte is a much better add than JMU.

There is no back-handed swipe at WKU. I used WKU as an example to show that the ODU fan's swipe at us could just as easily apply to WKU and was an illegitimate double-standard.

I'm fully aware of why CUSA took WKU and I'm not jamming on them at all.