I was on the phone with a customer service rep in Minn. and I had a hard time understanding her. On the otherhand I understand redneck, rural black, and Mexican English dialects with no problem.
(06-26-2013 04:51 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I was on the phone with a customer service rep in Minn. and I had a hard time understanding her. On the otherhand I understand redneck, rural black, and Mexican English dialects with no problem.
The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
(06-26-2013 04:51 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I was on the phone with a customer service rep in Minn. and I had a hard time understanding her. On the otherhand I understand redneck, rural black, and Mexican English dialects with no problem.
Bachmann?
No this lady sounded sincere and competent in her job, just hard to understand.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
This was not a good day for the prosecution.
It's also possible that Zimmerman passed him and then came across him on the way back to the car.... meaning he not only stopped following him, but he also "confronted" him. Confronting him isn't the problem... it's HOW he confronted him that could be.
Based on the testimony of the girl, saying Trayvon asked why he (zimmerman) was following him... (if that is all she heard him say to Zimmerman) it seems that Zimmerman DIDN'T "confront" him. If he had confronted him, ZImmerman would have been the one asking the questions, no? I suppose it could have been a "why are you here?" "why are you following me" conversation... but the testimony doesn't seem to support some sort of agitated and armed confrontation at the start... which calls into question the "state of mind" claims.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
I don't know guys. A 16 kid walking back to the place he is staying and a grown man following him? Regardless of who at the moment it became physical was the aggressor you have a fight. A fight between a kid and an adult. The kid was tall and possibly in good shape, at least in good shape by virtue of being 16 if nothing else. The adult while shorter is much heavier and if I'm not mistaken had worked as a bouncer. Now even if he was out of shape, a bouncer knows how to handle physical confrontations. The kid has no weapon, the adult has a handgun. If they stood and boxed I would give the advantage to the kid but we all know that fights seldom unfold like that. Most real fights end up on the ground. On the ground Zimmerman has the advantage and in all likelihood would end up on top fairly quickly unless the kid has MMA skills. The kid gets shot and the adult walks away with a few scraps and bruises. The only way I see Zimmerman walking on this is if the defense can convince the jury that Zimmerman was about to be beaten to death by this kid. He says that Martin was on top, slamming his head on the sidewalk. Is their any evidence that this is true? Or is that a way to justify what he did?
Of course we can speculate all we want but it only matters what the jury believes. All we are basing any of this on is preconceived notions, media coverage, conjecture and personal bias.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
This was not a good day for the prosecution.
It's also possible that Zimmerman passed him and then came across him on the way back to the car.... meaning he not only stopped following him, but he also "confronted" him. Confronting him isn't the problem... it's HOW he confronted him that could be.
Based on the testimony of the girl, saying Trayvon asked why he (zimmerman) was following him... (if that is all she heard him say to Zimmerman) it seems that Zimmerman DIDN'T "confront" him. If he had confronted him, ZImmerman would have been the one asking the questions, no? I suppose it could have been a "why are you here?" "why are you following me" conversation... but the testimony doesn't seem to support some sort of agitated and armed confrontation at the start... which calls into question the "state of mind" claims.
I would think TM's state of mind would involve the fear that a weird white man has been staring at him and following him around as he is trying to walk home. Thoughts of a pervert or mentally ill guy trying to attack/molest/come on to him I imagine would have been racing through his head. Maybe the idea of "he thinks I'm a gangsta/punk/criminal" is going through his brain too. It is hard to say. Based on the 911 calls from Zimmerman it is clear that he thought TM was one so we have some clear indications of his state of mind.
(06-26-2013 06:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I don't know guys. A 16 kid walking back to the place he is staying and a grown man following him? Regardless of who at the moment it became physical was the aggressor you have a fight. A fight between a kid and an adult. The kid was tall and possibly in good shape, at least in good shape by virtue of being 16 if nothing else. The adult while shorter is much heavier and if I'm not mistaken had worked as a bouncer. Now even if he was out of shape, a bouncer knows how to handle physical confrontations. The kid has no weapon, the adult has a handgun. If they stood and boxed I would give the advantage to the kid but we all know that fights seldom unfold like that. Most real fights end up on the ground. On the ground Zimmerman has the advantage and in all likelihood would end up on top fairly quickly unless the kid has MMA skills. The kid gets shot and the adult walks away with a few scraps and bruises. The only way I see Zimmerman walking on this is if the defense can convince the jury that Zimmerman was about to be beaten to death by this kid. He says that Martin was on top, slamming his head on the sidewalk. Is their any evidence that this is true? Or is that a way to justify what he did?
Of course we can speculate all we want but it only matters what the jury believes. All we are basing any of this on is preconceived notions, media coverage, conjecture and personal bias.
If you know anything about Street fights or bouncing it's the first good shot, especially by surprise, can almost always eliminate a size advantage. For all we know Zman was a wuss, which is why he carried a gun.
(06-26-2013 06:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I don't know guys. A 16 kid walking back to the place he is staying and a grown man following him?
16 years old, and four inches taller.
Quote:Regardless of who at the moment it became physical was the aggressor you have a fight. A fight between a kid and an adult.
Talk to teachers about how well they might fare against some of the kids in their room... Are you saying you can tell a 16 year old from say and 18 year old on sight?
Have you sen teens playing "the knock out game"
Quote:The kid was tall and possibly in good shape, at least in good shape by virtue of being 16 if nothing else. The adult while shorter is much heavier and if I'm not mistaken had worked as a bouncer.
30 pounds is not all that much, I'd rather have the reach because a strong 160 pound kid can throw with enough force to drop someone.
Quote:Now even if he was out of shape, a bouncer knows how to handle physical confrontations. The kid has no weapon, the adult has a handgun.
And yet Z had the marks on the back of his head and Martin did not. Who had a hand gun is immaterial, beating someone stupid, or to death, is not complicated.
Quote:If they stood and boxed I would give the advantage to the kid but we all know that fights seldom unfold like that. Most real fights end up on the ground.
True, but even there reach is damn important because if Martin was on top he had Z down, immobile, and still had superior reach. You're also dismissing the impact of that firs shot, a good bare fist punch to the head can stun you pretty good. In fact it's not hard to put someone nearly out with a well placed punch.
Quote:On the ground Zimmerman has the advantage and in all likelihood would end up on top fairly quickly unless the kid has MMA skills. The kid gets shot and the adult walks away with a few scraps and bruises.
Well at least people are acknowledging Z's injusries, you know the ones to the back of his head, and his broken nose... The ones consistent with his version of what happened.
Quote:The only way I see Zimmerman walking on this is if the defense can convince the jury that Zimmerman was about to be beaten to death by this kid.
That went out the door with the Murder charge. The defense has to prove intent, intent before the confrontation or that when Z pulled the trigger the confrontation was not ongoing..
Prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The state screwed this up when the went murder rather than manslaughter because the "Z created the environment" while true is not at all relevant.
Quote:He says that Martin was on top, slamming his head on the sidewalk. Is their any evidence that this is true? Or is that a way to justify what he did?
Injuries on the back of his head. Now the front where he would have them if he was on top but the back, where his head would have hit the ground.
Quote:Of course we can speculate all we want but it only matters what the jury believes. All we are basing any of this on is preconceived notions, media coverage, conjecture and personal bias.
FWIW I did study martial arts for 4 or five years after college. The best student in our school was a girl who was maybe 5'10" and weighed all of 115 pounds.
Nobody lasted against her she was sick. I was ok and if I got in close I could make a go of it but even on the ground it was like fighting s freakin fire hose.
It does not take being in a different weight class to knock someone out.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
This was not a good day for the prosecution.
It's also possible that Zimmerman passed him and then came across him on the way back to the car.... meaning he not only stopped following him, but he also "confronted" him. Confronting him isn't the problem... it's HOW he confronted him that could be.
Based on the testimony of the girl, saying Trayvon asked why he (zimmerman) was following him... (if that is all she heard him say to Zimmerman) it seems that Zimmerman DIDN'T "confront" him. If he had confronted him, ZImmerman would have been the one asking the questions, no? I suppose it could have been a "why are you here?" "why are you following me" conversation... but the testimony doesn't seem to support some sort of agitated and armed confrontation at the start... which calls into question the "state of mind" claims.
I would think TM's state of mind would involve the fear that a weird white man has been staring at him and following him around as he is trying to walk home. Thoughts of a pervert or mentally ill guy trying to attack/molest/come on to him I imagine would have been racing through his head. Maybe the idea of "he thinks I'm a gangsta/punk/criminal" is going through his brain too. It is hard to say. Based on the 911 calls from Zimmerman it is clear that he thought TM was one so we have some clear indications of his state of mind.
(06-26-2013 04:22 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I think all these attorneys must have gone to ritzy private schools. They can not understand that girl to save their lives. My daughter and I sat there and translated everything she said and we were getting very frustrated, just like she was. I guess they've never been around blacks before.
You speak Ebonics?
Yes, I grew up and still live in a rural county. We don't call in Ebonics. It is just the way people talk.
06-26-2013 07:05 PM
SumOfAllFears
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According to Sanford Police Department reports released today, a witness interviewed 90 minutes after the shooting testified that he saw Martin straddling George Zimmerman on the ground and violently battering him “MMA” style before Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest.
MSNBC and CNN have already convicted him, they are working now to make everyone that thinks Zimmerman may just have been defending himself afraid to say so.
(06-26-2013 06:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote: I don't know guys. A 16 kid walking back to the place he is staying and a grown man following him? Regardless of who at the moment it became physical was the aggressor you have a fight. A fight between a kid and an adult. The kid was tall and possibly in good shape, at least in good shape by virtue of being 16 if nothing else. The adult while shorter is much heavier and if I'm not mistaken had worked as a bouncer. Now even if he was out of shape, a bouncer knows how to handle physical confrontations. The kid has no weapon, the adult has a handgun. If they stood and boxed I would give the advantage to the kid but we all know that fights seldom unfold like that. Most real fights end up on the ground. On the ground Zimmerman has the advantage and in all likelihood would end up on top fairly quickly unless the kid has MMA skills. The kid gets shot and the adult walks away with a few scraps and bruises. The only way I see Zimmerman walking on this is if the defense can convince the jury that Zimmerman was about to be beaten to death by this kid. He says that Martin was on top, slamming his head on the sidewalk. Is their any evidence that this is true? Or is that a way to justify what he did?
Of course we can speculate all we want but it only matters what the jury believes. All we are basing any of this on is preconceived notions, media coverage, conjecture and personal bias.
If you know anything about Street fights or bouncing it's the first good shot, especially by surprise, can almost always eliminate a size advantage. For all we know Zman was a wuss, which is why he carried a gun.
Thanks for saying it better than I did...
Bouncers are typiclaly not great fighters, at least nothing special (on the whole)... Bouncers have several distinct advantages.
1 - Turf : Bouncers know and use their surroundings. They use them to pick angles of approach and to reduce their own exposure.
2 - Comfort : While they have to be prepared for anything, like a cop, they are usually not going to encounter deadly force and they know it.
3 - Sobriety : 9/10 times a bouncer is dealing with someone who is impaired.
(06-26-2013 05:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote: The girl on the phone with TM at the time Zimmerman was following him came across legit to me. It sounded true to my ear, not calculated or edited to favor TM. If it had been I don't think she would have said he described Zimmerman as a, "creepy a-s cracker" or calling him a "nigga". She testified that he said the guy was staring at him, had started following him, that he had lost him, then that there he was again. She said he asked why he kept following him and then she heard the phone drop and heard a scuffle before the phone went dead. If the jury believes her it certainly sounds like Zimmerman confronted him, not that TM came up behind him and jumped him. She did acknowledge that she had told two lies, (not under oath) one about why she didn't attend his wake or funeral and the other about her age. She had said she was in the hospital during the wake and funeral but in fact she just didn't go, explaining that she didn't want to see the body. She said she claimed to be 16 when she was 18 because she knew being a minor protected her from the public eye. If the jury believes these lies are an indication that she can't be believed about anything then throw her testimony out. But my gut tells me they will departmentalize this and view her as truthful.
Is there a tape or is there hearsay? I thought the 911 tape indicated he stopped following and walked away.
This girl is a mess, and while they might be inclined to believe her were this a tight case it's not tight... She is basically it and she had to scrub her twitter account this week to try and make her look credible.
ask yourself, would you send a guy to Prison for murder on her testimony? and only her testimony?
The prosecutions other witness said she heard three shots when the gun was only fired once and described the 6'0" Martin as smaller than the 5'8" Zimmerman.
This was not a good day for the prosecution.
It's also possible that Zimmerman passed him and then came across him on the way back to the car.... meaning he not only stopped following him, but he also "confronted" him. Confronting him isn't the problem... it's HOW he confronted him that could be.
Based on the testimony of the girl, saying Trayvon asked why he (zimmerman) was following him... (if that is all she heard him say to Zimmerman) it seems that Zimmerman DIDN'T "confront" him. If he had confronted him, ZImmerman would have been the one asking the questions, no? I suppose it could have been a "why are you here?" "why are you following me" conversation... but the testimony doesn't seem to support some sort of agitated and armed confrontation at the start... which calls into question the "state of mind" claims.
I would think TM's state of mind would involve the fear that a weird white man has been staring at him and following him around as he is trying to walk home. Thoughts of a pervert or mentally ill guy trying to attack/molest/come on to him I imagine would have been racing through his head. Maybe the idea of "he thinks I'm a gangsta/punk/criminal" is going through his brain too. It is hard to say. Based on the 911 calls from Zimmerman it is clear that he thought TM was one so we have some clear indications of his state of mind.
So now we're back to Zman being white again.
He told the girl on the phone that a "creepy a_s cracker" was following him so regardless of what is said after the fact, in TM's mind he is a white guy.
(06-26-2013 07:08 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: MSNBC and CNN have already convicted him, they are working now to make everyone that thinks Zimmerman may just have been defending himself afraid to say so.
MSNBC and CNN are setting the stage for the race riots to follow.
