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Rivalries ?
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.
07-25-2013 02:16 PM
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Laettners Legacy Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Rivalries ?
I still think Louisville and Duke will be a rivalry because of the Pitino vs. K angle...
07-25-2013 03:26 PM
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MHSCard Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Rivalries ?
Time sorts all this out better than guessing. We just need some heated close call games and history under our belts..
07-25-2013 05:25 PM
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plcp Offline
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Post: #24
Rivalries ?
Pitt vs hokies is already a rivalry because of the 4 game win streak. Pitt and UVA has a good chance. Pitt fans dislike bc so that could develop. And because of similiraties of geography gt could be a special rivalry. However as another poster pointed out nd and ups will b hard to eclipse... Only over time will any game develop a bigger rivalry than those two. I would have included the hoopies but when you fear for safety at their place the rivalry luster wears thin.


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07-25-2013 06:16 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-25-2013 11:49 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  For Louisville, here is what I see:

Basketball
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh (maybe)
FSU (maybe)


Football
None

The problem with football boils down to three things in my opinion.

#1. UofL doesn't have much football history/tradition itself and the Cards have little to no history with most of the schools in the ACC. Most rivalries need time, a lot of competitive match-ups, and some form of communality (e.g. religion, geographic proximity ,etc) to really develop. We lack pretty much all three of those things when looking at our fellow ACC schools.

#2. Most of the ACC schools already have long, well developed rivalries with other ACC schools. We aren't going to become more important to FSU than Miami, Clemson, UF, or GTech. We aren't going to displace Virginia or N.C. State on UNC's biggest rivalry list. Pitt is never going to look at UofL as bigger than a game against PSU, ND, or WVU.

#3. The two schools I think we'd have the best chance of forming a rivalry with (Miami and VTech) are both in the other division. With the way scheduling works, we'll pretty much never see them which really kills any chance of a rivalry forming.

Very good analysis on how rivalries form. No real rivals for awhile is definitely possible, especially in football. Penn State has been in the Big Ten for 20 years and there still debate on their boards asking if they have a rival. It just takes the right combinations for an extended period. Heck, Maryland was a founding member of the ACC and none of the teams they viewed as rivals really thought of them as a big rival. For Louisville, I think Pitt would have been possible too, but not with them in the other division.
07-25-2013 10:02 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.

The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.
07-26-2013 02:43 AM
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curtis0620 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 02:43 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.

The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.

Hasn't hurt the B1G or the B12.
07-26-2013 07:51 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-25-2013 08:30 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  BC and Syracuse are close in geography but nothing else. Neither side hates each other. If there are several close games and one knocks the other out of bowl contention then a rivalry may develop. However, most Syracuse fans simply don't hate BC.

I see it as a gentleman's rivalry. The hate might not be there, but I think that the interest is.
07-26-2013 08:20 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 07:51 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 02:43 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.

The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.

Hasn't hurt the B1G or the B12.

Yep, definitely agreed. Those two conferences literally aren't much better than the ACC in football although the perception certainly isn't that.
07-26-2013 09:19 AM
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Ragu Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 09:19 AM)Ole Blue Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 07:51 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 02:43 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.

The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.

Hasn't hurt the B1G or the B12.

Yep, definitely agreed. Those two conferences literally aren't much better than the ACC in football although the perception certainly isn't that.

They are aligned properly and maximize their assets.. The ACC doesn't. Look at how the Big 10 changed their divisions when going to 14 vs the ACC just messing them up more. Big difference.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013 12:02 PM by Ragu.)
07-26-2013 12:01 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 07:51 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 02:43 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.

The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.

Hasn't hurt the B1G or the B12.

03-lmfao

Not worth a further response.
07-26-2013 01:37 PM
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curtis0620 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 01:37 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 07:51 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 02:43 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 02:16 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 11:52 AM)Ragu Wrote:  ^The ACC killed any chance of FSU/GT being a good rivalry by doing the same thing were saying about Miami/Va Tech. It's an ACC specialty to crap away the potential of the league in football and to not maximize on its football assets.

I think the simultaneous decline of both Florida State and Miami hurt the ACC a helluva lot more than anything the ACC did to those schools.


The ACC being composed of a bunch of crap football schools hurt more than anything.

Hasn't hurt the B1G or the B12.

03-lmfao

Not worth a further response.

When you know it's true, you don't have to respond. 02-13-banana02-13-banana
07-26-2013 02:00 PM
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jmc79er Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-26-2013 08:20 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 08:30 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  BC and Syracuse are close in geography but nothing else. Neither side hates each other. If there are several close games and one knocks the other out of bowl contention then a rivalry may develop. However, most Syracuse fans simply don't hate BC.

I see it as a gentleman's rivalry. The hate might not be there, but I think that the interest is.

I agree. Many BC people have some type of connection with SU (my brother-in-law went there). There isn't hate; I've always respected and liked Syracuse. But, I certainly would get a lot of pleasure by BC knocking off the Orange. 02-13-banana
07-26-2013 04:05 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rivalries ?
I thought I posted this the other day but it's not here so I'll try to recapture what I wrote then...

I'm a Pitt fan and I keep reading in this thread people suggesting that Pitt's big rival could be Virginia. I just don't get that suggestion at all. I mean, I suppose it could happen - anything can happen - but I just don't see it. In fact, I can't think of two less likely rivals in the entire league other than perhaps Boston College and say, Clemson.

Here is who I anticipate being our top rivals:

1.) Pitt's primary rival has always been Penn State and it will always be the Nittany Lions. During their sex abuse scandal people got a good look at the mass delusion that we have known about for decades. We're just perfect opposites in every way. They fancy themselves as living in a rural utopia, whereas we pride ourselves on urban reality. I still have a t-shirt from our last game (2000, Pitt won, 12-0) that reads on the front Pitt vs. Penn State; on the back it reads Culture vs. Agriculture. That really pisses them off as they view themselves as the Harvard of Central Pennsylvania. Fun stuff.

Pitt and PSU are also in the same state and are pretty comparable universities. That means that we tend to marry each other, live in the same neighborhoods, work in the same types of jobs, etc. No matter what league Pitt finds itself in, PSU will always be our primary rival. Anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

2.) West Virginia will always be Pitt's No. 2 rival. Just 75 miles to our south, WVU is actually closer to Pitt than is Penn State. That is a different rivalry in that they are not in-state and WVU is not a comparable school to Pitt. Therefore we don't tend to live in the same neighborhoods (or state), or marry each other, or work in the same types of jobs, etc. It does happen but it is considerably rarer. That makes it a clear No. 2 on our rivalry list.

That said, the Backyard Brawl is still is a huge rivalry because it too is the country school vs. the (relatively) big city school and all the rest of it. That is fun stuff and what's really fun is going through the parking lot or nearby bars before the game. You don't have to look at the names on the shirts to know who is from where - it is plainly obvious to everyone. Out of politeness, I'll leave it at that.

The problem with WVU is that their fans, while passionate, can also be as mean as snakes and that too is different than any other rivalry I have ever been a part of. I don't mean to sound cruel but they don't really have anything else going for them so when you beat them - especially in a big game - they take it very personally and things can - and sometimes have - quickly turn(ed) nasty.

And I'm not talking about taunts or anything like that. I'm talking about over-the-top BS like having bags of piss thrown at you, or coins, or being sucker punched on your way out of the stadium, things like that. That is not cool at all and it is not uncommon down there. A few years ago, during a basketball game, one of our coaches was hit in the eye by a coin thrown by one of those goofballs. That's the downside of playing them. Their admin needs to bring some of their fans under control.

Don't get me wrong, I love their passion and I love the history of that game. Also, it's about as easy a road trip as there is in college football. However, I hate that I can't bring my wife and young son to that game without being fearful for their safety.

3.) After Southern California, Michigan State, Purdue and Navy, Pitt is Notre Dame's fifth most played game. Our series dates back to 1909 and has featured many memorable moments. Also, Pittsburgh is a predominantly Catholic city - many of whom are, like me, Irish Catholic - so the Notre Dame game will always have more significance than most other games. Pitt hasn't been good enough in recent years to call it a rivalry per se, but it is always an important game on our schedule.

So, with that in mind, our ACC games are always going to take a back seat to the aforementioned games. There is just too much history and tradition for it to go any other way. In my next post I'll discuss whic ACC teams I see as the most likely candidates to develop into our rivals going forward.
07-27-2013 09:03 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Rivalries ?
(07-24-2013 08:27 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  LAX - SU and UVa.
Baseball - SU and...oops!
Basketball - SU and Duke
In general I think Pitt & UVa could become good rivals.

Louisville and Duke after all Louisville beat Duke for its 1986 National Championship in basketball. Also, I fore see all the games in basketball between Louisville, Syracuse, Duke and North Carolina as becoming major events. 07-coffee3
07-27-2013 09:26 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Rivalries ?
As I wrote in my previous post, like a few other league schools (Georgia Tech, Clemson, Louisville, etc.), our primary rivals are all non-league teams. That sucks but that's the reality of college athletics in the modern world. Not all rivals have stuck together or where ever together in the first place.

Also, I want to acknowledge up front that ALL of this depends on PItt getting its act together. If we continue to languish around .500 every year, nobody is going to give two schitts about playing us and frankly, nor should they.

With that said, here is who I see as Pitt's most likely rivals within the ACC:

1.) I think Virginia Tech is going to be Pitt's most likely ACC rival. We have some shared history going into things and we have already played some epic games (Pitt has won four straight, BTW). Also, we're in the same division, so we'll continue to play every single year. The Hokies are always excellent and they have a passionate fan base that almost always travels extremely well to Heinz Field. If Pitt can get its program up to snuff, that game will no doubt turn into a very good annual game for the ACC.

2.) Miami dominated Pitt when they were each in the Big East but then again Miami dominated everyone in the Big East. For decades, Pitt played Penn State on the Friday after Thanksgiving and when they ended the series, West Virginia slid into that role. Now that the Backyard Brawl is caput - at least for now - the word on the street is that the U will likely be filled into that spot.

Personally, I'd love to see that happen as everyone knows that Miami won't stay down forever. Also, the U, with all of their swagger - which is sometimes unearned - is usually a very hateable group.

It can get very cold in Pittsburgh in late November. It would be fun to play a meaningful game up here in the cold where we can each test each other's speed, athleticism, toughness and fortitude.

3.) Pitt and Georgia Tech have no history whatsoever. However, they should. In fact I think they are basically mirrors of each other and are practically sister schools.

Look at it for a second: both are urban schools who have to fight an uphill battle to draw attention in pro dominated markets; both have primary rivals who are the giant land grant schools out in the sticks; both take men's basketball seriously as well as football; both have very strong football traditions upon which to draw; and both take academics seriously.

That is a LOT for two schools to have in common and I think it's a pretty solid basis for a rivalry to develop. Seriously, I cannot think of a more comparable school to Pitt than the Yellow Jackets.

4.) Syracuse and Pitt have played a ton over the years, first as independents and then as members of the Big East. I think our fan bases each have a healthy respect for the history and traditions of the other school. Unfortunately, and somewhat bizarrely, we have never been good at the same time. For decades now, when we have been good, they have not; and when they have been good, we have not.

One might think that it is a direct relationship attributable to recruiting success but I don't think so. We don't really recruit the same kids. I mean there is some overlap to be sure but now as much as one might think. It's not a see-saw type of relationship, let me put it that way. Rather, I think it's just a good old fashioned, decades-long coincidence.

At some point that is bound to change going forward as each program has had too many great players and teams over the years for neither to come back.

If both are ever good at the same time, I sincerely believe that could become a very good game for the ACC.

---

Let me add that I am lamentful at losing Maryland as I saw that as a HUGE opportunity for a rivalry with Pitt. In fact, I was so confident that would become a rivalry, at one point I would have even advocated trading Georgia Tech for Maryland on the divisional front.

A lot of Pitt grads and Pittsburghers in general have moved to the Beltway area for job-related reasons and as such there are a ton of Pittsburgh sports fans there. That has really helped to intensify the rivalries between the Steelers and the Ravens and the Penguins and the Capitals and I think Pitt and UMD would have been a natural extension of that phenomenon.

Hell, just two weeks ago, I was in DC and walked into a bar on Capital Hill that was Pittsburgh sports themed from head to toe. We don't go there on purpose, we just stopped in for some lunch and a beer and suddenly we were back in the Burgh.

Additionally, Pitt recruits Maryland fairly heavily and we're about 3.5 - 4 hours from each other. Also like the Panthers, the Terps take hoops and football seriously. Then, factor in that each are located in pro markets and are comparable schools and I sincerely believe that had "fierce rivalry" written all over it.

Alas, they are off to the B1G now where presumably Rutgers will be their big rivals. What a shame!
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 09:58 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-27-2013 09:55 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rivalries ?
I also think it is instructive as to who is a "football-first school" and who is a "basketball-first school" based on how they answer this question. Pitt takes basketball seriously and has enjoyed much more success in that sport than football over the past decade or so. However, make no mistake about it, Pitt is absolutely, positively a "football-first school" and there is just no doubt about that.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 09:59 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-27-2013 09:57 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Rivalries ?
Well, Louisville is quickly becoming an all sports first school. 07-coffee3
07-27-2013 10:17 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Rivalries ?
That's great. However, I'd like to see Louisville become an all academics school first.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 12:19 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-27-2013 12:19 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Rivalries ?
We are. And is that the best you really have ? Epic Applause
07-27-2013 12:27 PM
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