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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #101
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 09:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

Just have to wait until the january meetings to see if the P5 or P4 needs to restructure for 16 teams each. might not have a choice.

That's rather wishful thinking IMHO. The restructuring is about governance, not the number of teams in a conference. I think you're dreaming if you believe that what comes out of that is the destruction of one of the P5 conferences. Way too much on the line to simply reshuffle like that. Besides, even if such a mandate were to come out, I still don't see the PAC taking those schools over the likes of ones that are a better geographic fit. You're putting way too much in the belief that the P5 are looking out for each other and are carefully coordinating every move. If that were the case, most of the major moves that have happened in the last 4 years would not have.
08-18-2013 11:05 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #102
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 10:43 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Interesting. I never thought AAU was that crucial to the PAC 12 after they took Utah.

The Big Ten is more keen on AAU per se. To the Pac presidents, their idea of "like-minded institutions" is more based on high research output and reputation. Rankings are never perfect but rankings like ARWU and THE are a good approximation of that. (AAU is one indicator of that kind of research quality and reputation, but not the only one.)

The new ARWU rankings (which rank worldwide universities, not just U.S. schools), released last week, have

Stanford #2
Cal #3
UCLA #12
Washington #16
Colorado #33
USC #47
Arizona #78
ASU #79
Utah #85
Oregon State in 101-150 tier
Oregon and Wazzu in 201-300 tier

When Pac-12 fans joke about University of British Columbia joining, it's because UBC fits this criterion. UBC is #40 on this list.
08-18-2013 11:05 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #103
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.
08-18-2013 11:05 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #104
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

If the SEC, B1G and ACC are going to 14 or 16 then they will have to keep up with that new reality in sports.
08-18-2013 11:10 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #105
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

are you talking about Oklahoma?
08-18-2013 11:10 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #106
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 09:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

Just have to wait until the january meetings to see if the P5 or P4 needs to restructure for 16 teams each. might not have a choice.

Oh joy....it has come full circle and now I am posting in support of what a Louisville fan is posting. 03-shhhh

I kid of course. You are correct and I can absolutely understand why the others would think such an opinion is way out there.

Here is the thing though. If the other conferences are sniffing around, if Texas is truly interested in a move then that puts the PAC in a very difficult spot should they try to stand in the way.

The Big Ten is at 14 teams, the SEC is at 14 teams, the ACC is at 14 teams. They all have shown their hand. They aren't done with expansion if they can help it.

When you pair up that reality with the fact that we pretty much know that the Power Conferences will be in charge of whatever new Division is created, that means they will have the power to create whatever rules they want.

They could go right around the PAC if they wanted to. They could create new rules that will favor expansion and be a detriment to anyone who didn't. How about if each of those three expanded with four more teams each to get to 18 and the Big 12 no longer existed? That would mean they would have three quarters of the voting rights in that division. The PAC would be in real bad shape then. Having to expand just to be able to use the same rules that the other three created for themselves? Who would they expand with since they just gave up on all the Big 12 schools? Find six quality targets out West. Good luck with that.


No....the other conferences would not enjoy doing that, especially the Big Ten but the Rose Bowl, as we once knew it, is already dead and when we move to an 8 team Tournament, it shall be official because the Rose Bowl will be used every year for it.

That is why the PAC will fall in line. The alternative could get real ugly.
08-18-2013 11:13 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #107
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

If the SEC, B1G and ACC are going to 14 or 16 then they will have to keep up with that new reality in sports.

Why?
08-18-2013 11:14 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #108
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

are you talking about Oklahoma?

Nope.
08-18-2013 11:14 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #109
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I said "I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the poster who said the same thing about academics."

So clearly i didn't say you said anything about academics, but that i would tell you the same thing I told the guy who did mention them. If they had the votes before why would they not have the votes now? Why would they NOW change their vote?

They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

That's just spin. I could spin just about any school to make them sound good or bad. Taking a school because they have a hotshot head coach? That's more than a bit of stretch. Probably the most vulnerable position of authority at the school and yet it speaks nothing for what that school brings for a market, fanbase, etc. Spinning it doesn't change the fact that all three schools are in the middle of small markets and little national draw - especially to the west coast. Adding them to the PAC would only be because someone put a gun to their head and told hem to add four CTZ schools or else. That doesn't seem very reasonable at all.
08-18-2013 11:14 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #110
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

are you talking about Oklahoma?

Nope.

??Kansas State? who?
08-18-2013 11:16 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #111
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:14 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.
The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

That's just spin. I could spin just about any school to make them sound good or bad. Taking a school because they have a hotshot head coach? That's more than a bit of stretch. Probably the most vulnerable position of authority at the school and yet it speaks nothing for what that school brings for a market, fanbase, etc. Spinning it doesn't change the fact that all three schools are in the middle of small markets and little national draw - especially to the west coast. Adding them to the PAC would only be because someone put a gun to their head and told hem to add four CTZ schools or else. That doesn't seem very reasonable at all.

It was a two part explanation. I gave the other part to the Louisville fan.

The post you quoted was just my way of showing that those three programs are much more valuable than folks give them credit for. They are certainly much more valuable than anything out West, by a long shot.
08-18-2013 11:16 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #112
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:16 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  The PAC blew their big chance. Now they take what is left.

The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

are you talking about Oklahoma?

Nope.

??Kansas State? who?

My theory has made it pretty clear who the three are and I have stated my theory plenty of times.

In case you havn't seen it before though....you are very warm.
08-18-2013 11:18 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #113
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:16 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The PAC didn't blow it. They gave a great effort in their attempt to try and jump to the head of the class. I personally believe all these folks at the top knew this stuff was coming. They knew their best shot was getting the power schools from the Big 12. The other conferences have more choices, more plays, due to their location.

The PAC went for it but in the end, Texas was basically extorting them.

"You want Texas? You have to give us something that none of the rest of your schools will be able to have."

There was no way that Scott and the Presidents could agree to allowing Texas to maintain the LHN while they were pushing their fully owned conference network. Their shot at Texas was always slim. They would have had to give up far too much to get Texas and Dodd's statements later on make that pretty obvious.

The PAC will now take what they can get, what they knew they would end up with at this point if it came down to this.

They will take a strong Texas program with a new hotshot Head Coach that may very well use A&M's blueprint for success. They will take an AAU University with a following that rivals many of those in the PAC as evidenced by how well it fills it's Stadium, all while being the second most popular University in it's State. Fortunately for that Program they have a highly respected coach that is doing amazing things and running a popular program with recruits.

They will also take another program that currently is being ran by a Legendary coach. It may not be the most glamorous program but it is a strong program with an extremely loyal fanbase. It also has a central time zone location, just like the other two, for the PAC to take full advantage of.


I think those explanations of the three Programs in question does them more justice in the Present Day situation than simply saying their names since people immediately judge wrongly on those names.

are you talking about Oklahoma?

Nope.

??Kansas State? who?

My theory has made it pretty clear who the three are and I have stated my theory plenty of times.

In case you havn't seen it before though....you are very warm.

Can you just name them off?
08-18-2013 11:24 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #114
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
07-coffee3

Very well.....no theories of mine are so simple that I can just "name them off". Sorry, you asked for it.


Texas starts it off by deciding they wish to move on from the Big 12 much like they did from the SWC. Why they decide such? That is for them to decide but Dodds made it pretty clear that they have had thoughts about it and about the move I am about to list as the one I feel is most likely for them IF they move.

Texas negotiates with the ACC for a deal like Notre Dame's. They say they will come if the ACC takes two other schools from Texas. They would need that for political reasons and for voting reasons within the ACC. They negotiate for the same deal that Notre Dame turned down. They play six games against the ACC every year but two of them are against two teams of their choosing. That of course will be the two programs that come with. The ACC says Baylor and TCU due to their locations and I don't see why Texas would disagree. That just means they have to sign a deal with Tech, more on that later though.

Texas is taken care of, the next one to be taken care of is Oklahoma. If Texas is coordinating this then that would explain why they perhaps were talking to the Big Ten, to see if they would take Oklahoma of course.

The Big Ten would most likely say yes. They need two more schools, OU is of good academic pedigree being a Carnegie University if not an AAU. It has an elite national football brand that the conference sorely needs. Kansas accompanies them of course with their Elite basketball brand, their AAU status and their medical research credentials. Plus....they make the State of Oklahoma contiguous.

After that it comes to the SEC. Who do they like out of the rest in order to make this happen? Well I do personally think they would not find the situation optimal but in the end the value of going along with this is just too much to pass up. The options of West Virginia and Oklahoma State are by no means chump change for the SEC. Two strong, building brands to fill out the footprint as best as the SEC can. They both will also fill in well to future divisions.

That leaves the PAC and the last three schools, whom you should be able to list off now. Some folks think the PAC would stand in the way of all this progress. I am most certain they would threaten it but the leverage is against them and the three available schools are better than anything else the PAC has as options. They get the PAC into the Central Time Zone. One gives them a Texas program much like how the SEC is doing well with just one. They will grudgingly go along with the plan. Whom else they take with those three? I don't really care who. New Mexico? UNLV? Hawaii? Doesn't really matter to me.



Edit: Oh...I almost forgot. The Tech deal. They follow in the footsteps of A&M by getting out from the Texas shadow but they leverage Texas into signing a deal to play Tech every year as an ooc rivalry game. Tech gets to thumb their nose at A&M for getting everything that A&M got plus the Rivalry game. Texas Tech and their new Coach will very likely dominate their new division within the PAC. They will be involved more in the New Postseason of the future by going this route than they ever would by sticking around with the current Big 12.
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2013 11:42 PM by He1nousOne.)
08-18-2013 11:39 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #115
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:24 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:16 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  are you talking about Oklahoma?

Nope.

??Kansas State? who?

My theory has made it pretty clear who the three are and I have stated my theory plenty of times.

In case you havn't seen it before though....you are very warm.

Can you just name them off?

He has already in another thread:

(08-04-2013 12:17 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  UT to the ACC as a partial member with a similar contract as Notre Dame but not identical. Perhaps Baylor and TCU both come with them as small private institutions that fit best with the ACC than any of the other conferences.

WVU and OSU to the SEC

OU and KU to the Big Ten

Yes...the PAC does kind of get the left overs but those left overs are better than the rest of the PAC's options in the West. Nothing against the rest of the schools but it's true. It is especially true because the PAC really could use some Central Time Zone representation in regards to dealing with the Networks.

Tech, ISU and KSU all offer that and all of them offer competitive programs. You can pick one of those MWC schools to go along with them.


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=642686&page=5
08-18-2013 11:39 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #116
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
Ahhh, thank you Underdog! 04-cheers
08-18-2013 11:43 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #117
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:33 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  They had the votes for Texas +others. They did not then and do not now have the votes for others -Texas.

They did not have the votes for OU/OSU the last time around. Why would anyone think the votes would be there for TT/OSU/KSU without Texas now?

So yes, if Texas comes along the votes are there. If Texas didn't come, the votes are not there and we already saw that they wouldn't even take Oklahoma without Texas.

I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

Just have to wait until the january meetings to see if the P5 or P4 needs to restructure for 16 teams each. might not have a choice.

Oh joy....it has come full circle and now I am posting in support of what a Louisville fan is posting. 03-shhhh

I kid of course. You are correct and I can absolutely understand why the others would think such an opinion is way out there.

Here is the thing though. If the other conferences are sniffing around, if Texas is truly interested in a move then that puts the PAC in a very difficult spot should they try to stand in the way.

The Big Ten is at 14 teams, the SEC is at 14 teams, the ACC is at 14 teams. They all have shown their hand. They aren't done with expansion if they can help it.

When you pair up that reality with the fact that we pretty much know that the Power Conferences will be in charge of whatever new Division is created, that means they will have the power to create whatever rules they want.

They could go right around the PAC if they wanted to. They could create new rules that will favor expansion and be a detriment to anyone who didn't. How about if each of those three expanded with four more teams each to get to 18 and the Big 12 no longer existed? That would mean they would have three quarters of the voting rights in that division. The PAC would be in real bad shape then. Having to expand just to be able to use the same rules that the other three created for themselves? Who would they expand with since they just gave up on all the Big 12 schools? Find six quality targets out West. Good luck with that.


No....the other conferences would not enjoy doing that, especially the Big Ten but the Rose Bowl, as we once knew it, is already dead and when we move to an 8 team Tournament, it shall be official because the Rose Bowl will be used every year for it.

That is why the PAC will fall in line. The alternative could get real ugly.

Except the PAC has a 12-year contract with the Rose Bowl. It isn't going anywhere. And the rules changes favoring expansion? Get real. You're talking about an expansion of the season for conference semifinals, right?
08-18-2013 11:43 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #118
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:43 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 11:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:40 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 09:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 08:38 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I believe that they want Texas and others first, but if and this is a B1G if that i'm not 100% sold on, the B1G gets UT and OU i'm pretty sure that the Pac rather open up their arms to the Big XII leftovers than a MWC team. It would be easier to scoop them up after the defection of the big two. They could get the others to vote to end the GoR's and get them without costing an arm and a leg. From the outside it might not look like a great fit with them just adding Tech, OSU, KU & KSU but compared to their other options? Hawaii, UNLV, San Diego St, Nevada, Fresno or Boise? Those four start to look a whole lot better.

But why would the PAC have to add anyone? That's the better question. I think they'd rather stay at 12 than add Ok. St. & other XII leftovers. Who's forcing them to expand? TV? Not a chance.

Just have to wait until the january meetings to see if the P5 or P4 needs to restructure for 16 teams each. might not have a choice.

Oh joy....it has come full circle and now I am posting in support of what a Louisville fan is posting. 03-shhhh

I kid of course. You are correct and I can absolutely understand why the others would think such an opinion is way out there.

Here is the thing though. If the other conferences are sniffing around, if Texas is truly interested in a move then that puts the PAC in a very difficult spot should they try to stand in the way.

The Big Ten is at 14 teams, the SEC is at 14 teams, the ACC is at 14 teams. They all have shown their hand. They aren't done with expansion if they can help it.

When you pair up that reality with the fact that we pretty much know that the Power Conferences will be in charge of whatever new Division is created, that means they will have the power to create whatever rules they want.

They could go right around the PAC if they wanted to. They could create new rules that will favor expansion and be a detriment to anyone who didn't. How about if each of those three expanded with four more teams each to get to 18 and the Big 12 no longer existed? That would mean they would have three quarters of the voting rights in that division. The PAC would be in real bad shape then. Having to expand just to be able to use the same rules that the other three created for themselves? Who would they expand with since they just gave up on all the Big 12 schools? Find six quality targets out West. Good luck with that.


No....the other conferences would not enjoy doing that, especially the Big Ten but the Rose Bowl, as we once knew it, is already dead and when we move to an 8 team Tournament, it shall be official because the Rose Bowl will be used every year for it.

That is why the PAC will fall in line. The alternative could get real ugly.

Except the PAC has a 12-year contract with the Rose Bowl. It isn't going anywhere. And the rules changes favoring expansion? Get real. You're talking about an expansion of the season for conference semifinals, right?

Of course I am and the only thing stopping it is the lack of control by the major conferences. They will soon have all the rule writing authority that they need to push through some very big changes.

As to that contract....how is that working out now? PAC schools playing in it every year? Playing a Big Ten school every year?

My point was that our two conferences don't really share that tradition anymore. If the PAC was so worried about it, then why are we where we are with it.

The contract talk just doesn't matter. More money will be made as it will be. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking anyone is protecting the tradition of the Rose Bowl. It is obvious that they aren't.
08-18-2013 11:47 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #119
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:43 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Ahhh, thank you Underdog! 04-cheers

Comprende.... 03-wink
08-18-2013 11:53 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #120
RE: PAC 12 to expand?
(08-18-2013 11:39 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  07-coffee3

Very well.....no theories of mine are so simple that I can just "name them off". Sorry, you asked for it.


Texas starts it off by deciding they wish to move on from the Big 12 much like they did from the SWC. Why they decide such? That is for them to decide but Dodds made it pretty clear that they have had thoughts about it and about the move I am about to list as the one I feel is most likely for them IF they move.

Texas negotiates with the ACC for a deal like Notre Dame's. They say they will come if the ACC takes two other schools from Texas. They would need that for political reasons and for voting reasons within the ACC. They negotiate for the same deal that Notre Dame turned down. They play six games against the ACC every year but two of them are against two teams of their choosing. That of course will be the two programs that come with. The ACC says Baylor and TCU due to their locations and I don't see why Texas would disagree. That just means they have to sign a deal with Tech, more on that later though.

Texas is taken care of, the next one to be taken care of is Oklahoma. If Texas is coordinating this then that would explain why they perhaps were talking to the Big Ten, to see if they would take Oklahoma of course.

The Big Ten would most likely say yes. They need two more schools, OU is of good academic pedigree being a Carnegie University if not an AAU. It has an elite national football brand that the conference sorely needs. Kansas accompanies them of course with their Elite basketball brand, their AAU status and their medical research credentials. Plus....they make the State of Oklahoma contiguous.

After that it comes to the SEC. Who do they like out of the rest in order to make this happen? Well I do personally think they would not find the situation optimal but in the end the value of going along with this is just too much to pass up. The options of West Virginia and Oklahoma State are by no means chump change for the SEC. Two strong, building brands to fill out the footprint as best as the SEC can. They both will also fill in well to future divisions.

That leaves the PAC and the last three schools, whom you should be able to list off now. Some folks think the PAC would stand in the way of all this progress. I am most certain they would threaten it but the leverage is against them and the three available schools are better than anything else the PAC has as options. They get the PAC into the Central Time Zone. One gives them a Texas program much like how the SEC is doing well with just one. They will grudgingly go along with the plan. Whom else they take with those three? I don't really care who. New Mexico? UNLV? Hawaii? Doesn't really matter to me.



Edit: Oh...I almost forgot. The Tech deal. They follow in the footsteps of A&M by getting out from the Texas shadow but they leverage Texas into signing a deal to play Tech every year as an ooc rivalry game. Tech gets to thumb their nose at A&M for getting everything that A&M got plus the Rivalry game. Texas Tech and their new Coach will very likely dominate their new division within the PAC. They will be involved more in the New Postseason of the future by going this route than they ever would by sticking around with the current Big 12.

Here is why I disagree with your theory.

1. Much of it is based in rumors. Some of which originating on message boards.

2. Your reasoning for Texas wanting out goes against all logic. They have a sweetheart deal as it stands now. What do they have to gain by joining the ACC?

3. There is no way in hell the SEC would take Oklahoma State without Oklahoma. Besides, Oklahoma and OSU are contractually bound. That commitment was made in public.

4. The Big 12 has the EXACT same Grant of Rights that the ACC has. If Oklahoma leaves, their media rights stay with the Big 12. It'd be worthless for the Big 10 to add them.
08-18-2013 11:54 PM
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